| Author | Message | ||
     Doug_s |
reindog, is that the same doublespeak that the republicans use, when they call a community center a mosque? when they call anti-choice folks pro life? it's not like anyone has a monopoly on double speak. you might wanna have a look in the mirror when you throw the "stupid" word around... doug s. | ||
| Hootowl |
If you have not read the Koran, this clip might enlighten you. | ||
| Johnnymceldoo |
Wow. Its probably best I just leave it at "wow". | ||
| Liquorwhere |
Iraqi (Sunni) woman who served me coffee morning after 9/11 said something like, "... calling those men (terrorists) Muslim is about as accurate as calling them Christians". Good-grief, you guys stay up late. I would like to point out that THEY THEMSELVES categorized themselves as muslims....Osama Bin Laden's manifesto (one of many) congratulated them on the victory in the Jihad, HOLY WAR, a term derived by that religion to define a way to die on Earth and go directly to Allah and be received with the bounty promised in the Koran. If you don't call them Muslims then what do you call them? Seriously? I think we should take a page from the Dutch on this. Look at how tolerant they have been to Islam. Look at how their society is being impacted by those that have come to their country and tried to impose Sharia Law in a country that is primarily Christian. Look at what is going on in the United Kingdom and of course Spain, which has a history of Moorish Occupation and Islamic Regimes in their past. Truly do we want to be too tolerant? I really don't care what people worship, honest because I am an atheist. I have no religious ax to grind, I don't care, but the theocracy that comes with this particular religion is unacceptable to someone that embraces the secular view of government. I am unconcerned about a politicians faith, I was fine the GWB saying he felt God called him to be President, although I felt he was a bad President, I was fine with John Kerry and Bill Clinton talking about their faith, and although founded on religious freedom we are primarily a Christian Nation. All that being said I must ask at what point do we embrace change and new points of view at the erosion of the values we hold dear? I would also like to point out that what Muslims do in other countries is not my concern, but I do like to learn from it, what happens here, even in another state is my concern because what starts in one place and becomes accepted, sooner or later will be shoved down the throats of the rest of the country by those with an agenda. | ||
| Reindog |
So my illustrious friend with a self proclaimed IQ of 160, are you saying that the Cordoba Mosque is not a mosque? You are entering Bill Clinton country. | ||
| Blake |
>>> everyone knows that countries living under radical islamist law are inhospitable to civil rights as we know it. no one argues this fact. no one participating in this thread thinks it's ok to show any quarter to these radical freaks who are certainly not muslims, even according to the vast majority of muslims around the world. Again ignorance laughably on display. "Civil rights as we know it (sic)"? Please prove me wrong about your ignorance. Name the Islamist nations and list the "civil rights as we know (them)" that are lacking there. Prediction: You will fail. Most likely you won't even try. The simple truth is that sharia,Islamist law, and culture in Islamist states is not "radical Islamic". It is simply islamic exactly as mandated by their "infallible word of allah", the koran. Frankly you've demonstrated too many times that you' just make stuff up. The vast majority don't view islamists as muslims? Utter nonsense. | ||
| Doug_s |
the only thing more ignorant than that wideo is the folks who believe all muslims are like that, and interpret the quran that way. blake, i am not sure what you are getting at. i was stating that countries runs as islamist religious states do not have civil rights. as far as the "vast majority" not wiewing radical islamists as muslims? well, if you consider the subgroup of dumb fear-mongering americans, you might be correct... but most folks realize that yust calling yourself a muslim doesn't mean you are really a muslim. yust cuz pat robertson, jerry falwell, jim bakker, et al., call themselves christians, doesn't mean they're really christians. i think most folks w/half a brain ralize what i mean when i say this... but, perhaps i misunderestimate the stupidity of people. frankly, i am not into making stuff up, everyone here conweniently ignores anything of substance said here that doesn't fit into their narrow-minded worldwiew. of course with so much blatant bs being thrown at me, i do have to spend considerable time simply attempting to clean myself off... oh well... doug s. | ||
| Hootowl |
"the only thing more ignorant than that wideo is the folks who believe all muslims are like that, and interpret the quran that way. " See, that's the thing, the Koran isn't open to interpretation, it says so in the Koran. | ||
| Doug_s |
oh, reindog, that community center does have a small prayer area in it, so i am told. i will be honest w/you - i have not seen the architectural schematics. but it is my understanding that it is a community center. doug s., edited for typo (Message edited by doug_s. on August 26, 2010) | ||
| Doug_s |
See, that's the thing, the Koran isn't open to interpretation, it says so in the Koran. that's the problem w/you infidels - most muslims believe the quran is open to interpretation.  nowhere in the old or new testament does it say they are or are not open to interpretation. most christians & jews believe they are. some do not... doug s. | ||
| Blake |
Fail. I knew it. You and your ilk are all the same, copious rhetoric, zero fact. Try again... Please prove me wrong about your ignorance. Name the Islamist nations and list the "civil rights as we know (them)" that are lacking there. Prediction: You will fail again. Most likely you won't even try. The simple truth is that sharia, Islamist law, and culture in Islamist states is not "radical Islamic". It is simply islamic exactly as mandated by their "infallible word of allah", the koran. Pat Robertson is a great Christian from what I know. A few outlandish statements doesn't change that. That man's deeds are profound. He is the founder of Operation Blessing, one of the highest rated charitable organizations on the planet. Once again, your childish ignorance does you Great disservice. Try actually educating yourself before parroting the lies and propaganda from the morons of the far left. | ||
| Johnnymceldoo |
No Blake pat robertson, jerry fallwell, the grahams are in the same category as men who beat women and treat them like dogs, send children into public places with bombs attatched to their bodies and call for the killing of anyone who doesn't believe like them. Yea iam pretty sure roberson and company advocate all those things and lois farrakahn is converting to wicca. | ||
| Sifo |
look, sifo - you may feel that the buildings shown in the pic below are ground zero. i, and many others do not. it doesn't make me (or them) a liar. sifo, it seems anyone w/a worldwiew different than yours, isn't worth your time. except for hurling insults at them - you seem to have plenty of time for that. you have hidden behind your attacks of me as an excuse for not addressing any one single point that i have ever made, in this or any other thread on the quick board. please sifo, prove that i am not worth your time, if all you can do is respond w/lame insults - STFU! thanks, doug s. Gee wiz Dougie, what is ground zero? It's all so wishy washy, it's just so hard to say. I think it's pretty hard to argue that damage done directly by the plane involved in the first attack at that site is not part of ground zero. It's not like I'm trying to extend it out everywhere the dust settled. We're talking about where the freaking plane impacted. That is without a doubt ground zero. Trying to claim otherwise IS dishonest. Funny that you claim I won't address anything you say. I'm still waiting for you to support what you claim about Glass-Steagall being the main cause of the mortgage crisis. That prompted me to post this link... http://lmgtfy.com/?q=what+caused+the+mortgage+cris is and I asked you to let me know how far down the list you have to go to find someone claiming Glass-Steagall. I believe that was the first discussion we ever had and you have failed to address anything I've said. You simply want to move on to the next falsehood and the next and the next, never addressing any challenges other than to say that your opinion is better. Your opinion isn't better. Your opinion is based on falsehoods, one after another. You are being called on that by a number of folks here that have great reputations of being very patient with pieces of crap like yourself. Come to the latest set of lies... Claiming the Cordoba Mosque (the original name for the project) isn't a mosque. They are already using it as a mosque today, despite not having an occupancy permit. Gee Dougie, any idea why they don't have an occupancy permit? Could it be that it suffered structural damage by the first plane that hit on 9/11? Yes, I think that's it! But no, we can't consider that ground zero can we? That would just be bigotry, wouldn't it? Why it's nothing but an excuse to keep the poor muslims from having a place to worship. BIGOTS! Consider that they have hundreds of mosques in the area already, and those same bigots aren't complaining about any of those. I wonder why not Dougie? What do you suppose separates this mosque from all of the others? Since when does a community center contain a place to worship? The community center in our town is exactly that, a center owned and run by the community. Put a place of worship in there and you have violated the 1st amendment. Of course this one will be privately owned and be a place of muslim worship. I hate to break it to you Dougie, but that is a mosque, just as they called it initially. Claiming it to be just a community center is just plain dishonest. It's a pattern with you. It goes far beyond a difference of opinion. I suppose it's possible that your personal moral compass is so damaged that you really don't know the difference between truth and lies. That still doesn't turn the lies into truth though. It yust makes you a compulsive liar. | ||
| Sifo |
Time to put the lie that "it's not a mosque" to bed for good. From http://www.park51.org/faq.htm, the official web site of the mosque.
From Islamic Finder...
http://islamicfinder.org/getitWorld.php?id=102115& lang=english A thousand people at a time. In our parts they call that a mega-church. Seriously, a church about that size near use had a big zoning battle because of the traffic implications. It was being built right on a major road, 3 lanes each direction, so no traffic through neighborhood streets. I think it's safe to say that Park51 is a mosque. Let's drop the dishonesty in these discussions. | ||
| Aesquire |
While I realize that parsing a statement and arguing each part is not "fair", It's the only way to answer a mixed bag of crap & gems. So.... i'd say it's unfortunate that, at the time of 9/11, the republican administration did not go after the perpetrators with the full weight of its american military might; I agree to a point. The leaders of AQ were in Afghanistan, and we, using mostly small groups of SF and high altitude bombers with gps guided bombs, assisted native tribes to retake their own country. We could have carpet bombed the capital, and killed many thousands, but the prev. admin. was smarter, and more humane than that. The problem came when we let evil men slip across borders and shelter in countries we did not want to overthrow, ( mainly Pakistan ) or were afraid of starting a larger conflict with the evil guys running Russia & China. My firm belief is the greatest error in the "war on terror" both Iraq & Afghan fronts is allowing the sanctuaries and suppliers of weapons across borders. I would have already taken out the Iranian leaders, and the tribal villages in Pakistan. NOT occupied. it instead went after iraq, which had absolutely nothing to do with 9/11, we only freed Iraq some years later, so that statement is misleading. Iraq, though it did support terrorists, was never accused of responsibility ( except in minor aid to the movement of the hijacker/murderers ) for 9/11 by the President. because america wanted oil. A natural assumption, but one that turns out to be false, though often used as propaganda by the enemies of freedom. Where's my oil? Being sold by Iraqi's to whomever they want, that's where. So, reality shows that statement to be propaganda and lie. so, now we have squandered billions, (all deficit spending, btw), squandered thousands and thousands of lives, and have lost years & years in the battle against these freaks. I agree. all true. the war continues. do you have any constructive ideas on how to win? ( I'm betting not. I've yet to hear anyone who argues as you do give any...prove me wrong, and be the first to be honest and positive. I fracking DARE YOU!!!) it's ironic that the "secret muslim", the "socialist" barack, is now in fact the one who is finally trying to do something about it. Barack is NOT a "secret muslim", he was "born muslim" ( a concept I do not agree with, do you?) and he became a church of liberation theology "christian", and therefor apostate in the eyes of Islam. ( again, I don't agree with the required punishment, do you?) I firmly believe he IS a form of socialist, Liberation theology. That said, what exactly is Obama doing about "it"?? Doesn't seem like a positive direction to me, though I'm happy Barack kept the Bush strategy in Iraq, leading to the planned withdraw, and not his promised immediate one. too bad that, after nine years wasted, billions of dollars & thousands of lives wasted, the patience of americans wasted, it may be too little/too late. Other than 50 million people freed from tyranny, and a republic of free people planted in the heart of darkness...Here we agree, and I hope we are wrong. If not, I'll be resisting theocratic rule in America by any means I can. but, here on our own soil, america needs to set a shining example of its principles of freedom, justice, democracy, and toleration. protesting this muslim community center ain't cutting it partial agreement. We have to allow the screw-you mosque to be built. Our own laws and principles demand that freedom trumps our annoyance at the deliberate insult. Those same principles says that protesting the insult is equally fine. Protest all you want. Those who would silence their opponents, instead of engaging them in civil discussion, are, by their own actions evil. Cram your STFU. Grow up. | ||
| Blake |
Sifo, "Converting to wicca" you say? That is news. I had no idea Louie was into the online encyclopedia scene. I've about had enough of these jerkoffs polluting the place with their bewildering ignorance, dishonesty, disrespectful debating, and willful blindness to reality. I am SO sick of these morons who try draw a moral equivalency between islamism and Christianity or Judaism. You nailed it. Doug is a troll, same as M2me. They both follow alinsky's rules; never allow the opposition to frame the question. Meaning if they do, don't respond. It is impossible to debate such dishonest ignorant cowards. Case in point: We raise the point that islamism is and has always been a serious threat to freedom. They counter: You're a bigot, not all Muslims are terrorists. or... Deuteronomy says such and such; Christianity is no better. or... McVeigh was a Christian. Miserable, ignorant, self-loathing fools. | ||
| Jima4media |
Here is a pretty good commentary on the Park51 Community Center by Keith Olbermann... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6dXFo0UUACM | ||
| Cityxslicker |
interpret it, shiate you arent even supposed to translate it. Want to really pizz off Hagi?... have a russian recite to him the quaran. It happens to be one of the best tortures out there. Solve afganistan.... Agent Orange the Poppy fields, send our 6.3 million orange suit criminals there, put the Obama bureacracy in charge, feet on the ground in country. there will be nothing left worth saving. problem solved. what we should have done was park a cruise missle in the Dome of the Rock 9/13/01 F*ck getting along. F*ck building bridges. | ||
| Slaughter |
I thought I'd start boosting my post count. | ||
| Slaughter |
Thought I'd also run the post count up on this thread. This here post has a much chance of swaying anybody else's opinions as any other so why the EFF not? | ||
| Slaughter |
So who's going to hell today? | ||
| Reindog |
Not me. It is Broadcom Day at the Del Mar Racetrack! First post time at 3:30. Super Diamond plays a free concert afterwards. Ummm....to some, that may be hell. | ||
| Reindog |
People do change their world view, sometimes at a glacial pace. Reasoned argument will sometimes sway people even if they won't or can't publicly admit to changing their philosophy. I just love the A=A and A!=A positions that some here simultaneously believe. | ||
| Sifo |
I read something very interesting today in the book I'm reading "Saved by Her Enemy". The reporter in the book is trying to convince Rafraf (the girl who grew up in Baghdad) to come to Atlanta to live with his family. Rafraf is concerned about moving to a Christian country and loosing her identity as a Muslim. The reporter does some research and finds a number of Mosques she can attend as well as an "Islamic Community Center". Sounds familiar, doesn't it. The Islamic Community Center is described as a place where Muslims can associate with there own and maintain their culture while living in a foreign land. This certainly doesn't sound like what they are claiming the Islamic Community Center at ground zero will be. I suppose we have to build it to see what will be in it, kind of like we had to pass the health care bill to see what was in that. It's an amazing story so far, I would have to say it's one of the best book I've read. The Mosque isn't for the purpose of bridge building, and reading this today, I doubt the any islamic community center is either. | ||
| Aesquire |
I just love the A=A and A!=A positions that some here simultaneously believe. Just curious... do you mean my opinion that the screw you mosque leaders have every right to build a church where they want....and they are jerks and possibly evil to do so where, when and how they are. ( btw, our Gov. is.... such a tool. ) Or do you meant the folk who insist that a radical cult that actually tells you they want to kill & enslave you are victims of ...phobia, while the guys that want to follow the Constitution and govt. not to spend more than it gets in taxes are terrorists? | ||
| Aesquire |
So who's going to hell today? I'm hoping to hold off a little longer, ( for selfish and altruistic reasons ) and rather hoping for Hel, not Hell. ( Valhalla by choice, but I have my doubts as to being worthy ) But hey, we don't really know what the afterlife is. It could be the adolescent fantasy of Islam, or the endless cycles of Dharma & Karma. Or nothing imagined by man. If you find out, let me know, if you can....... As Heinlein once put it, "You can have peace. Or you can have freedom. Don't ever count on having both at once. " | ||
| Doug_s |
blake, you raise the point that islam is and always has been a serious threat to freedom. i agree, but only because it is an organized religion that believes in conwerting others to its faith. this does not mean i am ignorant, self loathing, miserable or a fool. in spite of what you think, or what what names you call me. christianity & islam have more in common than differences. the differences are in degree rather than in kind. you do not agree? fine. i know about everything written about islam, both good and bad - it's all out there for anyone interested. but, since i do not draw the same conclusions you do, therefore i must be a: jerkoff troll moron polluting bewilderingly ignorant dishonest disrespectful willfully blind to reality coward self-loathing miserable fool ya, i can have a reasoned discussion w/folks like you  personally, what i saw on the mall this past weekend w/glenn beck scares me a lot more than a mosque two blocks from ground zero in nyc. but i am sure its simply because i am a jerkoff troll moron polluting bewilderingly ignorant dishonest disrespectful willfully blind to reality coward self-loathing miserable fool doug s. | ||
| Ft_bstrd |
I can't remember the last time our church had a "convert or be beheaded" pot luck dinner. Maybe it's time to have another. | ||
| Hootowl |
What got to me is the racial tension industry's response to Glenn Beck's rally with their staging of protests during the event. Beck is no racist. Sharpton sure seems to be. | ||
| Johnnymceldoo |
Wasn't mcveigh agnostic? Libs are grasping at straws because there is no substance or value in their line of reasoning. Lol |
