| Author | Message | ||
     Ferris_von_bueller |
'Tolerance and apathy are the last virtues of a dying society' - Aristotle | ||
| Xdigitalx |
1. Allowing the building of an additional muslim church near that sacred place in lower manhattan is a extremely dumb idea. As noted by most people with common sense. 2. I am curious.... Would any Native Americans allow any such thing on one of their sacred burial grounds?? I do not know if it ever happened or if it is a good comparison. 3. Not exactly fair that the muslim men get to look at every other women but yet cover their women for no-one to see. 4. I find it surprising that anyone (especially a true liberal) would support ANYTHING for a religion that is in the dark ages like that. my 4 cents. | ||
| Ninefortheroad |
Could there be a "happy ending" to the Cordoba mosque... er Islamic center??? How about some scary simple solutions? Well... How about the Christian people against it, do the radical, WWJD thing and say: "...if you must, go ahead and do what you think is right, our God will be the final judge, whatever happens!" ~very improbable~ ...and the non-Christian people against it, they will have to let their own conscience be their guide. ~ hard to say what the effect, but I don't think enough to create a solution or a very novel solution.... The leaders/builders of this Mosque/Islamic center are truly interested in furthering healthy dialog, healing and impressing us in the USA that they are genuinely interested in a new peaceful image for Islam would say... “Out of respect for all who do not want this mosque/cultural center, we will not build at this location but will seek a less controversial location.” ~also very improbable, but IMHO, if their motives are altruistic, this would make are real impression on most and go along way to improving many peoples negative opinion of Islam in general.~ Plain and simple, if they do not take this approach then it is too clear that they (the imam,and islamic leaders and community) are NOT truly interested in real progress regardless if it is their legal right here in the USA. | ||
| Cataract2 |
How about the church that was destroyed on 9/11 be allowed to rebuild. Then I might be more ok with the mosque. | ||
| Blake |
Islamism is not just a religion. Islamism is totalitarianism akin to naziism. Islamism should rightly be classified as a subversive criminal cult. Islam requires MAJOR reform. Lacking that the outcome of the war will decide its fate. John (M2me) and many Americans are dangerously ignorant of islamism, its history, its laws, and its agenda. It's not the kind good American Muslims that warrant attention. It is the islamist equivalents of Hitler, Geobles, and their cohorts. Why would anyone delude themselves into pretending that what happened in Lebanon cannot happen elsewhere, even in America. If you are truly interested in learning about the effects and brutal oppression that is Muslim culture under sharia law, and why it came to be, read A God Who Hates by Doctor Wafa Sultan. Ms. Sultan emigrated to America from Syria, and her story is very interesting, a very good and gripping read. Islamism is NOT just a religion. That notwithstanding, we also enjoy freedom of speech and the right to openly and publicly OPPOSE the mosque. Only a complete fool, an idiot most despicable, would confuse the right to protest and oppose the mosque with an infringement of religious freedom. That such fools are able to vote may be the ruin of America. Islamists adhere to the koran as the infallible words of allah. Please read it. | ||
| Oldog |
Plain and simple, if they do not take this approach then it is too clear that they (the imam,and islamic leaders and community) are NOT truly interested in real progress regardless if it is their legal right here in the USA. an accurate statement. their stated mission is forcible conversion possibly why Iran needs nuclear capabilities, I guess that the russians dont see this as a threat fun facts on the quran quran means recite, Mohamad would recite things that were told to him by an angle the quran was written down by on lookers and the like and assembled later, by another person, The Sunni and Shia sects have different versions of the quran. I recommend that any one thinking that the moslem faith is about peacable co existance do some research, cause it is not so. } | ||
| Ceejay |
If I as you're neighbor, came over to your property and burnt down two 100 yr old oaks on the corner, waited 8 yrs. and then asked if I could buy that corner lot, would you sell it to me? | ||
| Aptbldr |
Tone of thread is ironic, rising from American keyboards. US military and mercenaries occupying a couple Islamic countries. Significant military bases and troops in few other Islamic countries. Employing spies and robots to assassinate people in our "ally" Islamic nation of Pakistan. Apparently in this theater some Americans feel threatened and insulted by the address of a Muslim community center (not a mosque) in our nation of freedoms.  | ||
| Aptbldr |
Note: smiley shoots from the left! | ||
| Hootowl |
So much wrong with that. Iraq was not an Islamic country, they had a secular government. Saddam was all powerful, not Allah. Afganistan was invaded by the Islamic army of the Taliban. The indigenous people don't want them there, and they do want us there getting rid of said foreign army. The bases in other Islamic countries are there with the express permission of the governments of those countries. They want us there. We give them money, and they are all terrified of Iran. Pakistan is our ally, and we are, both of us together, killing Pakistani Taliban in the border region. Pakistan want them gone, so do we. I have no problem with the mosque. It's 200 yards away. There was a Muslim prayer room in Tower 1. I don't see why they can't build another one. I didn't lose anyone in that attack though. Common sense says you don't piss off your neighbors before you move in. If their intent, as stated, is to foster understanding, they're not doing a very good job. | ||
| Aptbldr |
Hoot, are we a Christian country? Does America not "want" its Muslim citizens? | ||
| Hootowl |
We are a country founded by Christians seeking freedom from government imposing an official religion. If the Muslims in America don't want to live under the state religion of Islam, and Islamic Law, then I personally welcome them. If they want to live here and worship Allah and not seek to impose Sharia Law on anyone, including other Muslims, I welcome them. If they want Sharia law, they can go back to the shit hole country they escaped from and have at it. Religious freedom and Sharia are mutually exclusive. | ||
| Aptbldr |
+1, oh-yeah-man: be here, our rules. | ||
| Reindog |
Exactly....the rule book is the US Constitution. Before any Tinglers start screetching about the WTC mosque, we've already been down that road. There is a Right but that doesn't make it right. To put it another way, try the mom test. Nine out of ten moms would kindly tell their child that the Muslims could build the mosque but they really shouldn't because it isn't neighborly. | ||
| Reindog |
BTW, Sharia law and religious freedom are mutually exclusive. Sharia Law is Unconstitutional and UnAmerican. However, the Tinglers will find a way to justify it. Just wait. | ||
| Johnnymceldoo |
Some aspects of sharia law could be beneficial to our citizens. Im gonna say I would support more muslim community centers and mosques as well as perhaps muslim funded and governed law enforcement centers. This would be a slightly radical change for most towns across America so I think it would be important to set these communities up in "blue states" or densely more liberal places that are more accepting of other cultures. San Fransisco, parts of new york and illinois would be great test beds. The muslim faith is growing by leaps and bounds so why not assimilate some of our culture to it? I cant think of a better way to extend an olive branch to this growing faith. | ||
| Sifo |
I have no problem with the mosque. It's 200 yards away. There was a Muslim prayer room in Tower 1. I don't see why they can't build another one. I didn't lose anyone in that attack though. Common sense says you don't piss off your neighbors before you move in. If their intent, as stated, is to foster understanding, they're not doing a very good job. 200 yards away from what? Ground zero? It's part of ground zero. That building was heavily damaged by the landing gear of one of the planes that flew into the WTC. Now they want to finish the job of tearing it down and build a mosque they call "Cordoba". You should read up on the Cordoba mosque in Spain. It is a symbol of conquest. I have to agree that they are doing a piss poor job of fostering understanding with building a new Cordoba mosque. So piss poor that I have to reject the idea that they wan to foster understanding. This is meant to be another symbol of conquest for the true believers of Islam. | ||
| M2me |
That otwithstanding, we also enjoy freedom of speech and the right to openly and publicly OPPOSE the mosque. You're absolutely correct. But that wasn't the question. The question that I posed was this, and I quote: "The question comes down to: Should Muslims be allowed to build a community center and mosque two blocks from Ground Zero?" The answer is absolutely yes. Just because you don't like Muslims or don't like the idea of a mosque so close to ground zero is not legal grounds for stopping the construction. I think those who oppose it are religious bigots who hate Muslims. You might think differently.
I can't get a link to work. There are commas in the URL. It's from a story on LA Times. Maybe the enemy of my enemy is my friend? There are 1.5 billion Muslims in the world. I just find it hard to believe that they are all bad. What I think is unwise is a plan to piss off all 1.5 billion Muslims, the majority of which are decent people and intend the U.S. no harm. Everybody always wonders why moderate Muslims don't speak up more but as soon as one shows up we greet him with pitch forks and torches. It's no wonder moderate Muslims don't make an effort. Building understanding is a two way street. We have to make an effort too. | ||
| Sifo |
You ignore my reasons for not wanting the Cordoba mosque built, assign different reasons to me and call me a bigot. OK then. | ||
| Oldog |
amazing thread drift this started out about Iran getting nuclear assistance from Russia | ||
| M2me |
You should read up on the Cordoba mosque in Spain. It is a symbol of conquest. I have and it isn't. The only reference I can find to be it being a symbol of conquest is from Newt Gingrich. This is from the Cordoba Initiative's web site:
This explanation makes more sense to me because while searching for information about Islamic Cordoba, Spain I came across this sense quite often. I could only trace "symbol of conquest" back to Gingrich. Cordoba was a prosperous center of learning during medieval times. Muslims, Jews and Christians did live peacefully together (at times) in Cordoba. There was a sense of religious tolerance. This was highly unusual during medieval times. It's this sense that I think Imam Feisal is getting at. Do we all have to be at war with each other? | ||
| M2me |
amazing thread drift this started out about Iran getting nuclear assistance from Russia I never even noticed that. But the time I got on board it was all about Mosque Hysteria. I assumed that's the way it started. } | ||
| Sifo |
I have and it isn't. The only reference I can find to be it being a symbol of conquest is from Newt Gingrich. Really? How hard did you look? http://lmgtfy.com/?q=cordoba+mosque+conquest Get back to me on where you find Newt in there... | ||
| Ninefortheroad |
Sifo - nice- that was too easy... Many would like to trust the Cordoba Initiative, but so much points to dis-trust. Many would like to trust Islam but so much not to trust. | ||
| Sifo |
A big question is why is this exact location so important that the Imam won't even discuss an alternate location? It it really is about reaching out then they should be understanding of peoples fears, justified or not. Isn't that what reaching out and building bridges is all about. The simple fact is that they are unwilling to even consider an alternate. This certainly feeds the fear and mistrust. Aren't they achieving exactly the opposite of what they claim they want to achieve? This leads to questioning either their intelligence or their motives. Who here thinks that the Imam's intelligence is the problem? Serious question there. Don't be shy. Speak right up. Intelligence? | ||
| M2me |
Get back to me on where you find Newt in there... Thanks for Googling it for me. I found mostly Newt Gingrich bigots but I also found this from the Catholic Encyclopedia. Cordova is an alternate spelling of Cordoba. Also, it's interesting that Muslims are never called Muslims, they're called Arabs.
It's in this sense that I think Abdul Rauf uses the word "Cordoba". Christians and Muslims co-operating to make a flourishing city. Why do I think that? In the first place, because that's what Abdul Rauf says. But even more importantly is because references to "Cordoba" meaning a "symbol of conquest" are all very recent, say July-August 2010. Why did this new meaning suddenly come into existence? Answer: Newt Gingrich. | ||
| M2me |
A big question is why is this exact location so important that the Imam won't even discuss an alternate location? My guess is because the building was damaged on 9/11 and they got a good deal on it. Remember, this "Hallowed Ground" was a former Burlington Coat Factory. They already own the building and what do you want them to do with it now? Sell it? In this real estate market? Not in America you don't! You can forget all about the symbolism of medieval Cordoba. Now you're talking the language that every American understands: Money! | ||
| Blake |
Get off my web site you despicable idiot. | ||
| M2me |
Go eff yourself. Gee, look at me everybody! I'm responding to the discussion as thoughtfully and intelligently as Blake! I like to insult people and call them names because that makes me feel smarter than everybody else. | ||
| Jima4media |
The Burlington Coat Factory is not ground zero, and they are not proposing building a mosque in it, it is to be a community center, much like the Jewish Community Center near it, or the 5 Y.M.C.A's in Manhattan. Jim |
