| Author | Message | ||
     Wolfridgerider |
Suicide is NOT painless. Not to the ones left behind. My wife and I got to watch a young girl become a beautiful young woman with out her father.... if they only thought about what the would be missing.... Nice belief system there The older I get the more agnostic I become... | ||
| Gschuette |
I hate most religious views on suicide. The creator is mad you took your life? Well if the creator was worth a shit you would think it could figure out how to create life and the all important free will and not include depression. But let's not let logic get in the way of a good religious issue. And no offense to the original poster but those who partake in suicide are often misunderstood. Sure you miss person x but what kind of pain were they feeling internally to drive them to that extreme? Depression is a serious problem and I feel that people who aren't depressed simply do not understand what it does to people. | ||
| Jaimec |
We don't know what drove him to that point. I've spoken to all of his sisters and a few of his friends and none of them had any inkling that he was in such a dark place. That's why it was such a shock to ALL of us. I think the "not knowing" is the worst of all. I've known him ALL my life. His mother and mine were childhood friends. Our families were so close that we called his parents "Aunt and Uncle" as they called mine the same though there was no blood relation. THAT'S how close we were. We're all dazed and confused. His youngest sister is convinced it has something to do with that poisonous harpy of an ex-wife of his but we'll probably NEVER know. | ||
| Lemonchili_x1 |
Jaimec, I'm really sorry to hear about your loss of someone so close. It's hard to lose someone so close, must be even harder when it's so unexpected. Try to remember the good times to ease the pain. | ||
| Blake |
Steve, On the contrary, it makes a friend's or family member's suicide infinitely more sad and tragic. We damn ourselves. | ||
| Jaimec |
Well, I'll be flying out to Pomona, CA on Tuesday to attend his funeral. This will accomplish the one thing he could never manage in life... his half-sister in Australia will FINALLY get to meet his full sisters from New York. She'll be flying in for the funeral as well. I don't think his father is well enough to travel from the Philippines. Wake, Funeral and Cremation all on Wednesday, then I'll be flying back home on Thursday. His father requested his ashes be interred with his mother's back here in New York. She passed away years ago to cancer (chain smoker as long as I'd known her). | ||
| Bobby_fletcher |
Blake, We damn ourselves? Would you please elaborate on that statement. | ||
| Blake |
I'd really rather not other than to answer with other questions: When you ride too fast and get tIcketed for speeding, who is to blame? If the judge offers to forgive the penalty, and wipe clean your record, but you refuse, who is damning who? | ||
| Bobby_fletcher |
I do see what you are trying to convey, but we are the only species on the planet that behave in that manner. | ||
| Blake |
You've totally lost me. Behave what way and what does that matter? Are you suggesting that only those human behaviors that are also seen in animals are valid, that any human behavior not seen in animals is misguided?  | ||
| Jaimec |
Just "unnatural." | ||
| Blake |
Baloney. What is natural for mankind is different than for a tapeworm. Your point re damnation still eludes me. Was there one? | ||
| Jaimec |
I'm not the one who made any point on damnation. | ||
| Blake |
My bad. | ||
| Cityxslicker |
lemmings run off a cliff en mass. life is not the rosy tv show you think it is. Sometimes it is indeed a piece of shit. and on the really good days you cant smell the filth you are wallowing in; though there you are trapped none the same. | ||
| Blake |
Dude. You need to move, seriously. Life is way too short to wallow, and the absolute glory of creation is darn near everywhere if we look for it. Modern material society and a truly f'd in the head popular culture are poison to the soul if we let them govern our attitude in life. | ||
| Jaimec |
Actually, lemmings running off a cliff is an old wive's tale. http://www.snopes.com/disney/films/lemmings.asp | ||
| Blake |
Exactly as I've always understood the phenomenon, lemmings following a migration right off a cliff. Absolutely true. Snopes only reveals that a film faked such a scene. You no read good. | ||
| Jaimec |
No, YOU don't. "SOME lemmings die by falling over cliffs." They don't charge en masse over cliffs but in their migration SOME of them FALL. There is a BIG difference between FALLING off a cliff and JUMPING off a cliff. | ||
| Blake |
"Some", yes, exactly. Not "all". Again, the snopes article is about a movie scene being staged. It further states that in some cases of mass migration, some lemmings fall of cliffs. The reason being that they are intent on moving with their group and instead of stopping to avoid falling, they continue moving. Some, not all, but in some cases, a great many. | ||
| Jaimec |
You're going off on a tangent again, Blake. Cityxslicker brought up the old wive's tale of lemmings running off a cliff. I brought up the Snopes article NOT to point out the faked Disney scene, but to point out that lemmings do NOT commit suicide en masse as has been the popular belief. | ||
| Swordsman |
I've often wondered if maybe the whole "God hates suicide" thing came about because the religious leaders did TOO good a job playing up life-after-death. When Heaven is perfect and down here you're scrounging for food and picking fleas and lice, why wait, right? If suicide was a direct ticket to Hell, why does the 10 Commandments skip over it, but warn you not to covet your neighbor's stuff? Seems like a "Thou shalt not kill thyself" might have made a good 11th. ~SM | ||
| Doerman |
In Jaimec outreach to us in a loss of a good friend, the thread drifts to a discussion of religious principles. I believe that to be in bad taste. Maybe start another thread on the subject? Jaimec... I know you are hurting. I am sorry that you have to go through this. Hopefully you will experience some comfort in gathering with your friends and relatives in Pomona on Wednesday. I live 8 miles from Pomona, so if you have an inclination to get together, PM me. Be strong, and celebrate the life your friend lived. | ||
| Oldog |
Jaimec: sorry to find this here, I lost My dad with little warning, don't agonize over why, sadly you will never realy know, My Deepest Sympathys to you on the loss of your friend. There is nothing sadder than the waste of a good life. SM "Thou Shall Not Kill", includes "thyself" | ||
| Swordsman |
Welll.... good grief. Not once have I read that Commandment and thought of it that way. Duh! Thanks for bringing it to my attention (I feel very not smart at the moment....)  ~SM | ||
| Cityxslicker |
ok, so the little lemmings dont fling them selves off a cliff. I will bring up another old wives tale. From Choctaw family values. When you are too old to hunt, too old to sire children, to frail to make the nomad march with the livestock, you wander off into the woods, swamp, over a cliff to quit being a burden to the tribe. And again, I will reiterate, that anyone that commits suicide, obviously thinks this life is worthless, hopeless, tedious, banal, sees them selves as trapped, or they could be under the influence and pushed to those conclusions. In anycase, it aint all flowers, hearts, hugs and warm squishy emo tenderness. Life sucks, nobody gets out alive. | ||
| Jaimec |
Doerman, It looks like the Church service is going to be tomorrow night in order to better match the flight arrangements made by my cousin coming in from Australia. She's my deceased cousin's half-sister from his father's second marriage. One of my cousin's ambitions was to get his youngest sister to meet his two sisters from New York. Although I sincerely doubt that was why he killed himself, he is succeeding in at least this endeavor. Alia was born and raised in Australia (Sydney) and this will be her first visit to the States. I only know her through Facebook myself. Anyway, I may have some free time on Wednesday. I'll play it by ear. | ||
| Doerman |
Jamie.. Looks like PMs are out of commission right now: email me at amelo (at) sebringsoft (dot) com In the event you find some time to get together and you have the inclination | ||
| Jaimec |
Will do. Right now I'm cooling my heels in Phoenix Sky Harbor waiting to board my connecting flight. | ||
| Jaimec |
So I arrived at the church last night and was told I was to deliver one of the eulogies and "rememberances" for the evening. I was completely unprepared. I did say my piece... and somehow kept myself from completely losing it but looking out on the sea of faces barely keeping it in themselves made it that much harder for me. I don't even remember what I said last night. His youngest (half) sister flew in from Australia and said her piece and there wasn't a dry eye in the house. It was the first time she got to meet her two older (half) sisters... they were all supposed to meet this year over the holidays. I don't know if I got "closure" or not, but it felt good seeing all of my cousins again after all these years. |
