| Author | Message | ||
     Fresnobuell |
Californian motorcyclists need to act now! Please click on link below to help. http://capwiz.com/amacycle/issues/alert/?alertid=1 5140966&queueid=[capwiz:queue_id] Senate Bil 435 is back! Senate Bill 435 (motorcycle emissions) has been amended and is now scheduled for a hearing on June 21st. Take Action! Bill would require stock exhaust on all bikes manufactured after January 1, 1983. California Senate Bill 435 (Pavley, 23rd District, D) is back. Despite repeated failure to garner support for past versions, Senator Pavley continues to unfairly target motorcycle owners. The latest version of the bill would require only stock exhaust systems on all motorcycles constructed since 1983, and mandates a $300 fine for any owner who is found to be in violation. Once again riders throughout the state are asked to contact their Senators and let them know that this is simply unacceptable. The newest version of this bill, which previously mandated smog testing, would result in thousands of currently legal motorcycles to be removed from the road, or their owners being forced to spend hundreds (or thousands) of dollars to reinstall OEM exhaust. Also, in the case of older models, many owners would be left in an all but impossible situation, as OEM exhaust systems will simply be no longer available from the manufacturer, therefore rendering the bike both illegal to ride and all but impossible to sell. Furthermore, the lack of a labeled exhaust system does not mean a motorcycle is out of compliance with the federal law. After-market exhaust systems that comply with RSA 266:59-a are available from a number of manufacturers and often installed by their owners for a number of different reasons: 1) after-market exhaust systems are available when OEM exhaust parts are no longer, especially for older motorcycles; 2) Exhaust systems can rust out or be damaged in a minor accident, requiring replacement 3) after-market exhaust systems cost less than OEM systems, even when they are available; and 4) OEM exhausts systems are not available for custom motorcycles and kit motorcycles constructed by individuals from non-OEM components. Lastly it is simply unfair to expect a motorcycle owner to display a ‘readily visible’ label if one is not delivered that way from the factory. Many EPA stamps are very difficult to locate on new motorcycles. Is it reasonable to expect a motorcycle owner to partialy dismantle his or her motorcycle on the side of the road to prove the exhaust system is labeled? | ||
| Sifo |
Sounds a lot like "let me see your papers". How can they write a law that changes federal law? Time to boycott CA! | ||
| Andymnelson |
"How can they write a law that changes federal law?" I'm not speaking directly to this scenario, but the short answer is because our government is set up where as state law trumps federal law. It often does not play out this way, but that's how it's supposed to be. | ||
| Nobuell |
And the games begin. See todays post http://www.badweatherbikers.com/buell/messages/406 2/572809.html?1276610305 | ||
| Ezblast |
Act! | ||
| Bikertrash05 |
Not to hijack, but the "let me see your papers" law mirrors the federal law, and it was made so the state could enforce it, because the feds were not, besides putting up signs. 80 miles into AZ:  | ||
| 2008xb12scg |
Time to boycott CA! how would that help? The people trying to pass that bill are polititions. They don't sell things. Wouldn't boycotting a place just hurt the little guys selling things? At least one (me) I know of is running a Drummer on his xb.. | ||
| Ezblast |
Act - do the letter/email thing to your local rep. EZ | ||
| Aesquire |
I don't believe in boycots, or sanctions. it just penalizes the citizens of a land, and leaves their despotic leaders in charge. Oil for bribes just bought Saddam gold toilets while his people starved. Sanctions against Iran are completely ineffective. The only answer is to decapitate the govt. slaughter the existing tyrants, and hope the citizens can keep control, maybe even start a Republic. Hold it, California? OOPS Wrong thread. Never mind.  | ||
| Buellkowski |
How can they write a law that changes federal law? Isn't it already against EPA regulations to modify emissions equipment (pollution or noise) on newer bikes? Funny, but it's another example of a state desiring to enforce federal regulations in the absence of Federal resources (or political will) to do so. | ||
| Fresnobuell |
There are some legal aftermarket options which will be banned under this wonderful new piece of legislation and i believe this one of the problems from the AMA standpoint. Also, I believe state law can be more restrictive than federal law, but not more lenient. I think of the federal laws as "guidelines" for the states. god knows, California has made a habit of placing more restrictions on its citizens than whatever the Federal government has conjured up. For all those a-holes with loud pipes--here's the result. this bitch of a lawmakers has a hard on for motorcycles and it's most likely due to one too many encounters with loud motorcyles, whatever the make. thanks guys! | ||
| Buellridersww |
What about the "can" exhaust on the car??? If the state wants to restrict the loud pipes on motorcycle, then they should include the "can" so it is fair for general and not strictly target to one group...... | ||
| Arbalest |
Not that I want to stir things up or anything (I think I'm the only REEAALLY left winger that lurks here and posts infrequently), but I thought all you Right Wing Conservative types were state's rights folks??? Since when do you guys (and gals) want the Feds dictating what you can and cannot do? | ||
| Aesquire |
Good question. I'm Left Libertarian and I'm usually on the State's side in Fed vs. State. There are exceptions. But, to be honest I don't see what you see on this thread, just clarification of the edges between federal and State laws. Fed law may call for Airbags, State law may call for MORE airbags, not less. That's how it works, right? Mike, when you say Reeaaly, do you mean you actually have thoughts and beliefs that you can advance or defend with logic and reason? Or are you a "minion" lefty that just reposts stuff from Huffington & politico and never actually thought through the B.S. they push? If you're the former, welcome to the great debate on life liberty and all the fish. ( I think I mixed my metaphor there, oops ) If you're the latter, Sorry. You do know what your log in name means, right?  (Message edited by aesquire on June 17, 2010) | ||
| Arbalest |
Aesquire, I don't read Huffington or politico. I have been around this board long enough to know not to go arguing politics with this group. I believe what I believe, you guys believe what you believe. It's like a Christian arguing with a Muslim over who's God is the true God. Neither will convince the other to come over to their side. I minored in Economics in college, so I'm not totally ignorant of the views from either side. I had a great Right Wing microeconomics teacher. He really knew his stuff and knew how to teach. I learned a lot from him. I had a great Marxist macroeconomics teacher. I also learned a lot from him. I have come to my own conclusions about how things work, based on my observations. I find it non-productive to engage in political discussion here, I am way outnumbered. I just can't help pointing out inconsistencies now and then. And yes, I know what an arbalest is. I have a cellar full of them. Picked my posting name long before I ever heard of the Badweb. Politics aside, what we do share is an appreciation for what Erik Buell gave to the world, and Harley Davidson took away. | ||
| Aesquire |
I have a buddy with a nice Ballista. I'm thinking about building an arbalest with Goatsfoot lever for target shooting myself. Nice to hear you're not a ( useful idiot ) mindless minion. They are the ones who get the abuse here, because they are the ones that use unfair discussion methods. ( refusing to answer legit questions, changing the subject, personal attacks when they are called on lies, etc. ) Now I figure a question in the "have you quit beating your wife?" mode deserve a mocking comment. No one expects an answer to that, except the "clever" jerk. But "where did you hear that Bush smokes LSD?" when that's the argument one is using to defend drug legalization, seems legit to me. Others will differ. Responding to anothers complaint that, say, "Barack's foreign policy "reset button" approach tells other countries that we can't be trusted to honor long term commitments" with a comment like, "Oh, yeah! well Bush Lied People Died" is going to get flack. For one thing, what does one have to do with the other? For another, It's provably false. I won't even go into the whole bit some ( not you, but everyone knows who ) people make when they have no argument ( usually because they are repeating propaganda mindlessly ) and make personal comments. I just call them on it and tell them they lost. Others will differ, but if you argue with facts, logic and honor, I will respond with same. I make no claims for others, but i can actually have my mind changed. ( except about Allison Hannigan, I still thinks she's hot ) And loud pipes, while fun, sometimes, look like they have a public/govt. backlash that can mess up my desire to cheat a little bit on vehicle performance. I'd hate it if I couldn't get a Bully Dog black box for my VW because some biddy with connections got the aftermarket performance industry crushed. See South park episode. IMO | ||
| Fresnobuell |
revised bill: Senate Bill 435 Update! Senate Bill 435 (motorcycle exhaust) has been amended yet again and is still scheduled for a hearing on June 28th. Take Action! Latest version would require stock exhaust/EPA stamp for all bikes built on or after January 1, 2011 California Senate Bill 435 (Pavley, 23rd District, D) has been modified yet again. Despite repeated failure to garner support for past versions, Senator Pavley continues to unfairly target motorcycle owners. The latest version of the bill (as of 6/22/2010) would require stock/OEM exhaust systems on all motorcycles constructed on or after January 1, 2011, and mandates a "fix it" ticket for any owner who is found to be in violation. Riders throughout the state have already been contacting their legislators and letting them know that this is still simply unfair. While much improved the bill would still result in unwarranted ticketing of bikes that were in fact legal to operate simply because the stamp could not be located (there is no requirement specifying a location of the stamp when manufactured). Furthermore, the lack of a labeled exhaust system does not mean a motorcycle is out of compliance with the federal law. Recently two New York City motorcyclists visited a number of motorcycle dealerships to determine if the required label on stock motorcycles was readily visible as specified in the U.S. Code of Federal Regulations (40CFR,parts 205, subparts D & E). They conducted a visual survey on seventy-six (76) from the factory (stock) motorcycles from eight (8) different OEMs (Original Equipment Manufacturers). Their findings showed that: 1) Thirty-two (32) had readily visible EPA stamps. 2) Forty-four (44) machines had labels that were extremely difficult to find under the best of conditions. This includes twenty-six (26) machines that had labels not visible without physically dismantling or removing part of the motorcycle. Their findings can be viewed at: http://syntheticmachine.net/EPAlabelsurvey/EPA_Lab el_Flash.swf It should be emphasized that these motorcycles were indoors, clean, and quite easily inspected. It is highly unlikely those tasked with enforcement of Senate Bill 435, if it became law, would experience such ideal conditions in the field. Road film and dirt will quickly obscure any label on an exhaust system, something that makes a visual inspection and verification even more difficult or impossible. Simply put, it is unfair to expect a motorcycle owner to display a ‘readily visible' label if one is not delivered that way from the factory. Many EPA stamps are very difficult to locate on new motorcycles. It is unreasonable to expect a motorcycle owner to partially dismantle their motorcycle on the side of the road to prove the exhaust system is labeled. |
