| Author | Message | ||
     Boney95 |
What do I have to do to get bumped up from novice to intermediate? This is my first track day so I have no choice but to run novice. I'm not being over confident here, I just know that I have the skills to run intermediate. The only place to pass is in the straights. So I've got this feeling that these riders will be shit caning it down the straights and then putting through the corners. Making passing options slim, if the other guy is on an equal powered bike, or on a quicker one. So what do I have to do? Pass the entire field by out braking them into the corners? Dive beneath them just exiting the corners to get them in the straights? I know track days are not race, I'm just trying to get the most enjoyment out of my hard earned money. | ||
| Smokescreen |
  I did it at Barber for the Inside Pass track day. I will say this, unless you know someone there, your chances are going to be pretty slim of moving classes. Good luck and have fun! | ||
| Glitch |
Relax Boney. There's no shame in running Novice. I'd rather run Novice than Intermediate. You'll figure that one out soon enough. So what do I have to do? More than just one track day. Pass the entire field by out braking them into the corners? Dive beneath them just exiting the corners to get them in the straights? Chances are, if you're as good as you think you are, you won't have to do anything like that. Just show your skill by playing by the track's rules. As the corner workers see you're out-classing everyone, you're good to go... next time. If you're so good as to be ahead as everyone, just relax and enjoy the track. Or you could take a race school and get your race license first... | ||
| No_rice |
just ride your own ride, if you should be moved they will move you, trust me. or you can always ask an instructor to follow you and see what he thinks about moving you. they basically told me i had to run advanced as i may be spooking the others in intermediate. i was just playing and running around with my friends. so... i got stuck in with all the full on track/race bikes on my bone stock street tired bike. it definatly allowed me to pick up the pace though  | ||
| Wolfridgerider |
In my best Yoda.... Many things learn you must......  mmmm track day fun... be safe you must...  ... or pain you will feel  (Message edited by wolfridgerider on June 03, 2010) | ||
| Barker |
Intermediate is a meat grinder. Most dangerous group on the track. Stay in novice for your first one. Don't worry about more powerful bikes and who is passing who. Ride your own ride. If cant pass some one safely and you feel like they are holding you up, just roll thru the pits and get back out for some clean air and or folks you can pass. I went to advanced on my first trackday after one session. I just thought intermediate was a little scary. After the control riders saw me ride (dodge other bikes) in the first session they had no problem bumping me up. Trackdays = the most fun you will have legally while keeping your clothes on. | ||
| Jimduncan69 |
+1 on what Barker said! | ||
| Davefl |
+1,000,000 What Barker said! Your ego should stay at home when you do a track day. Forget about passing at this point. Go out have a good time and work on corner entry and exits. If someone is in your way and a good place to pass does not present itself just roll into the pits and give yourself some room. I know all too well that bad things can happen even trying to pass on the straits in a novice group, it may not be your skill in question. | ||
| Wolfridgerider |
once you have done a session or two ask one of the instructors to play lead follow with you after a few laps they "should" do a pause and talk on hot pit to let you know what you need to work on. If they have a hard time keeping up with you, you should get the bump up you are looking for | ||
| Nukeblue |
i'd just jump in the fast novice group and spend the day learning the track. you'll probably find you're going fast enough. the track days i've done don't usually let you change classes the same day. so the next time out hop up to intermediate & have some fun runnin circles around them in the curves | ||
| Slaughter |
If you aren't trying to get a "cheap track day" (minimal staff, poor supervision, no instruction) and are going with a good operator, they are going to have MUCH MORE staff on track for the novice group than intermediate or advanced. After about my 3 or 4th track day, they took a few of us out with one of the instructors for a session to ride with us and observe. At that time, they TOLD the 3 of us that we were moving up to Intermediate. I stayed in Novice as long as they let me because I SAW how bad it typically was in intermediate and saw how much more instruction I could actually get in Novice. Problem is Intermediate is EXACTLY where most of the problems and incidents happen on track days. Many riders convince themselves that they are "too fast" or "too good" for novice but really aren't riding very predictably - making the passing that much more dangerous. See how it goes on your day. IF by your lunch break you feel you "have to" move up, talk to one of the staff or safety riders but do it discretely. Don't be "THAT GUY" who asks in front of the riders at the rider's meetings, "What if I'm being held up, how do I get to the faster group." Trust me - at that point, the staff will start talking about you as somebody THEY will have to take care to watch. Every lap, you can pull into the hot pit, roll off, slow to maybe 50, let traffic get ahead and then roll back out and run a clear lap with nobody in front of you. It is supposed to be fun - and it will be. If you're riding close to your personal limit, the less you are going to be able to learn and on a first track day, there is a LOT to learn - JUST learning your way around the the track takes a half day if you haven't raced there before. The more in a hurry you are to "get faster," the longer it'll take to get there. Just don't be "THAT GUY." | ||
| Wolfridgerider |
Where are you doing your track day at? | ||
| Boney95 |
BlackHawk during HC. I'm sure you guys will be there. Slaughter I think Bud told me he was letting you borrow his XB. Yeah I'm not "that guy". I'll play it cool and safe. Good tip on running through the pits. I would think the novice guys would be worse than the intermediates, being that they might be "unsafe slow" for a track, and scared/tense, for lack of a better word. | ||
| Xl1200r |
Boney - If it's your first track day, you probably don't know as much as you think you do. Not meant as a jab, just the truth from experience. Just because you can get a knee down on the street doesn't mean a thing (or at least not much). On my third track day, I was still in the slow novice group. I was the fastest in that group by a WIDE margin. FOLLOW THE RULES. I made all my passes in the straights and after the apex in turns. Advice - don't hang on someone's ass going into a corner just to outdrive them on the exit. This is what I was doing and you'll get a lot more out of it by SLOWING DOWN on the straight to give yourself more room, then speed up to carry more speed through the whole corner to make your pass after the apex. If you're as good as you think you are, you'll have at least a 15-20mph jump on everyone and you're 'slower' bike will pass them with ease on the straight. Doing this, I got bumped to the 'fast' novice group right before lunch. I was flagged by an instructor (I thought I was in trouble) and he told me I was "fast as f***" and couldn't be riding with this group. He then told me I needed to work on my line... I was quick through the course, but I didn't know the line as well as I should have. So in the next group, that's what I worked on, but was still much faster than everyone in it. Two sessions later, I had another insructor approach me and tell me he wanted me in the Intermediate group and offered to follow me and help me learn the line better. Intermediate eneded up being a good group for me - I was still passing a handful of people, but would still get passed by a couple during a session as well. The worries on here about the intermediate group are not unfounded - you have everyone from novice riders who think they're better than they are up to advabced level riders who just haven't gotten bumped up yet. It's a mad house. But, final advice, in the morning, ride your own ride, take your time, work on the line and follow the passing rules if you must pass. Ask an instructor one-on-one to follow you after lunch and see what he thinks IF you feel like you're really being held up by slower traffic. Don't be a jerk about it, and if they don't bump you they have good reasons - listen to what they say, and work on what they tell you to work on. Be safe, have fun, and I know there will be enough good knowledge on hand that day to remind you of these things. | ||
| Ceejay |
Novice don't mean novice to a bike, it novice to a track...At my first track day there were lots of other novices who probably thought the same-there were a couple of duc riders who wouldn't talk to anyone else, thought they would have the buell on the free pucks ground off in the first session, these were the first guys I saw playing in the weeds. To quote Red Green-"were all in this together" Have fun! Wish i was going. | ||
| Acgwolfe |
I just moved up to intermediate this year, and I promise you, you will have more fun and more opportunity to go fast in novice. Its better to ride with slower riders than the fools I was riding with. There was more bunching up in the turns than there everwas in novice, very dangerous out there in intermediate. I dont care how long someone has been riding, there is always something to learn in novice. Have fun. | ||
| Slaughter |
Trust me, Novice will be under much more control. Yeah, I will be there on a borrowed bike since Homecoming is also our race weekend out here (and Homecoming is more important to me) Depending on the track day operator, MOST of them that I know will let you pull into the hot pit to let traffic get a half lap ahead and them pull out again. That actually makes it fun in a different way. Looking at the track map, the hot pit lane (between T7 and T1) will allow plenty of safe exit and re-entry - but this will depend on whether that is OK by the track day operator. If you're in touch with Bud, ask him if that'd be cool after you've gotten used to the track in the afternoon. I'm sure this'll be a fun, casual kinda day. Lifted the track map from Blackhawk website, looks like the hotpit is easy access for safe exit/entry  | ||
| Reepicheep |
If you are behind somebody slow, just work on form, or change your line to make it more challenging. If you are that good, you will be able to set yourself up in the corner (without passing) such that you will fly by them in the passing zones. | ||
| 99buellx1 |
At BHF, going throught he hot pit is fine. (I believe the track day is being run by the same group that ran the one that I participated in) Just be sure to signal your intentions and take the correct line through 7 to get to the pit safely. Riding on a track you've never been on will take about a half day just to get the lines somewhat figured out, and even then I would bet you are not taking the fast line without some instruction. Take your time and learn the track, ride safe, it's very easy to ride over your head and not even realise it until it's too late. If they are offering any classroom instruction between sessions DO IT! Pull all the information possible, there is always more to learn. Also, I wouldn't suggest trying too often to late brake people into a corner, that's a good way to stuff someone and take their line or spook them. If you really are the faster rider you will have no problem getting a drive on someone out of a corner and will make the passing easy. BHF is a fun technical track that is very Buell friendly. Pick a gear and ride it is my favorite part. I ran 3rd gear on the whole track other than to upshift to 4 on the back and front straights. The best part about that is more focus on the track and your riding. Very enjoyable. Obligatory pic of me at my first race weekend at BHF two weeks ago.  | ||
| Hangontight |
The cool thing about this track day is that we are all going to be on air cooled twins (except the 1125 guys  ). At least there won't be some of those inline 4 guys who floor it past you down the straight and then park in in the corner. It'll be cool to be riding with like bikes. | ||
| 99buellx1 |
Not exactly. It didn't fill, so it got opened up to the general public for anyone to get in. | ||
| Hangontight |
That kinda sucks. I've been meaning to call Bud to see if this was going to happen. | ||
| Paint_shaker |
Go novice. Learn the track. Have fun! Eat lunch. Get with a control rider (one on one) and do a lead/follow with them. They will move you if you have the skill. Did I mention have fun? | ||
| Ourdee |
I'll be riding a camera from the side lines. | ||
| Svh |
See you there Ourdee. | ||
| Slaughter |
I actually called and talked to Bud and he even said that they ENCOURAGE folks to pull into hot pit and hold for a 5-count and then pull out when clear (and believe me, 5 seconds is FOREVER on a short track even with BIG speed differences). Morning will be more structured, the afternoon is when you'll be able to work with the control riders. One other thing - in ANY track day, WORK WITH the control riders. For this day, they're having some near-celebrity guys coming to the track and you gotta realize that NO trackday rider is making huge bucks; they're ONLY there because they love what they're doing. If you approach a control rider in the pits between sessions, hit him/her up to spot you, watch and follow you, then show you the line, body position, braking, throttle-on points. Talk to them - trust me you're gonna get TONS of good advice. Bud said this is going to be recommended in the riders meetings. They're SERIOUS about this being a fun learning experience. The control riders LOVE it when people come up to them at the end of the day to shake their hand and thank them for the pointers. Bud also said that they're splitting Novice into two groups to keep the crowds smaller (WOOT!!) - we're making good sense here with that idea! This IS gonna be seriously good times for all! OK now I'm starting to get all excited. | ||
| Whatever |
You might surprise yourself... I had four runs in at Road America... the head instructor got in front of me after the straght away to lead/follow... and I ended up in the gravel pit at turn one... I am usually a very cautious rider and was just starting to lean off the bike... in 15 years of riding I have not had an accident... what sucked is it pretty much has spooked me away from another track day... but with the 9 I might reconsider... | ||
| Boney95 |
The pits will be my best friend then. I might be too humble of a person to walk up to one of the control riders and ask them to follow. I'm just a super competitive/impatient person. And I'll ridden with fellow Buellers, most not the quickest, if I'm being honest. Everything will work out... I've got fresh EBC's in the mail, new custom dynoed tune straight from Erik Buell Racing; I'm really looking forward to this! | ||
| Rocketsprink |
run a few laps and see how you feel. I've got a shit load of laps in at BHF. I'm not calling you cocky, but what you think and what you can actually do are two different things. Push it and you'll pay the price. Just have fun. And pray for good weather. | ||
| Rocketsprink |
and, of course, I won't be there cause I have to do registration at Alpine (Message edited by rocketsprink on June 03, 2010) |
