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Delta_one
| | Posted on Sunday, March 07, 2010 - 07:44 pm: | 
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I think next month I may buy one of those free spirits tensioners too. anybody know how much shipping is going to add to the price? it looks like its about $165 US for the part. |
Cataract2
| | Posted on Sunday, March 07, 2010 - 10:29 pm: |
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Wondering, will the Free Spirits Belt Tensioner fit the 1125R? |
Cataract2
| | Posted on Sunday, March 07, 2010 - 10:42 pm: |
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So, those with the FS Belt Tensioner. Good, bad? |
Trojan
| | Posted on Monday, March 08, 2010 - 04:47 am: |
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The Free Spirits tensioner will only fit XB models and will not fit 125 models.
Xenox has certainly covered most of the advantages of the sprung tensioner over the stock fixed item, and once you fit one you'll see just what a difference it makes.
You can feel the difference in drag just by pushing the bike forwards with the engine stopped, and it really is very noticeable (the stock tensioner feels like the brakes are on compared to the FS item).
Most of the belt failures that I have seen over the years are not caused by foreign object (stone) ingress or damage, but by 'shock' when the suspension is suddenly extended such as when riding over speed humps or railway crossings. Wheelies and stoppies don't help either! The Free Spirits tensioner will 'cushion' the impact of these shocks and will protect the belt and bearing from damage.
You will also notice a difference in your suspension as the shock isn't having to fight the belt tension to work. |
Ratbuell
| | Posted on Monday, March 08, 2010 - 08:07 am: |
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So, I (while my Uly is in for a new belt) want to know how many belt failures have occurred on bikes that have the FS tensioner? As in, "I had the FS tensioner on my bike and the belt broke at xxx miles".
Anyone? |
Gunut75
| | Posted on Monday, March 08, 2010 - 08:31 am: |
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I just may have to order up a FS unit. |
Natexlh1000
| | Posted on Monday, March 08, 2010 - 08:35 am: |
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Every one of my belt failures happened while accelerating over a pothole or other sudden bump that removes load from the rear wheel and allows it to spin and then stop suddenly.
This goes for my X1 as well as my 2008 uly.
There was no tensioner on the X1 and I always ran it really loose.
I doubt that a sprung tensioner would do anything helpful in these situations. |
Ratbuell
| | Posted on Monday, March 08, 2010 - 08:45 am: |
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The 2 belts I've broken (hot-motor FLHP, and the Uly) have both been when merging onto a highway, snapping a 1-2 shift. Smooth pavement, suspension a non-issue unless you count squat/dive from acceleration...which would be minimal and not a shock-load. There's more shock load coming from the rotational pull of the belt - pulling hard under acceleration, then snapping "back" the other way on clutch, then back into accel. rotation when off the clutch. |
Sifo
| | Posted on Monday, March 08, 2010 - 11:08 am: |
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So, I (while my Uly is in for a new belt) want to know how many belt failures have occurred on bikes that have the FS tensioner? As in, "I had the FS tensioner on my bike and the belt broke at xxx miles".
Anyone?
On the flip side, I've had 4 bikes with belts and no automatic tensioners. Zero failures.
97 Sporty sold at ~ 30K miles.
03 Dyna sold at ~ 20K miles.
08 Sporty currently at 21K miles
06 Lightning currently at 26K miles
Could be I've just been lucky. I'm not going to bad mouth a product I haven't seen, but it seems to solve a problem that I haven't had yet. |
Ratbuell
| | Posted on Monday, March 08, 2010 - 11:25 am: |
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And that's where I am. I ride my stuff hard, and I'll admit that both belts I've broken have been on hard 1-2 shifts in sub-freezing weather. Conditions were against me both times...just wondering if ponying up the $ for the FST would be money well-spent, at least in my situation.
If NObody has broken a belt with the FST on...I may consider it. |
Froggy
| | Posted on Monday, March 08, 2010 - 11:34 am: |
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quote:If NObody has broken a belt with the FST on...I may consider it.
I'm curious too, but there isn't many out there with them to get a good sample. It would be like saying the FST prevented your headlights from burning out. |
Sifo
| | Posted on Monday, March 08, 2010 - 11:35 am: |
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I know what you are saying, and have to admit I've had those same thoughts. I think a big part of the problem with what you are asking is the small sample size of the people on BadWeb that have used the FS tensioner. It could solve nothing and still have a 100% "success" rate with BadWeb customers. OTOH it could solve belt breakage problems almost all together. I really don't know. I can see where people claim it will minimize/eliminate damage from stones. If you run without the belt guards (a great look IMO) it might be a worthwhile investment just because of that. |
Ulynut
| | Posted on Monday, March 08, 2010 - 03:15 pm: |
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The 2 belts I've broken (hot-motor FLHP, and the Uly) have both been when merging onto a highway, snapping a 1-2 shift. Smooth pavement, suspension a non-issue unless you count squat/dive from acceleration...which would be minimal and not a shock-load.
Hard acceleration causes the rear of a motorcycle to lift, not squat. |
Delta_one
| | Posted on Monday, March 08, 2010 - 03:30 pm: |
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quote:Hard acceleration causes the rear of a motorcycle to lift, not squat.
true but counter intuitive isn't it?
I remember noticing for the first time looking at dyno videos, its weird to think that the weight transfer makes less difference than the drive line torque until you really think about how a car squats because it weight 10x what your bike does.
as far as the FS tensioner I am willing to to it for the reduction in drag alone, I have yet to break a belt and doubt this will save one any more than I already have. But it looks cool reduces drag and lets the suspension work more smoothly.
sounds like a series of benefits to me, wins all around. besides there are cosmetic parts on my bike that cost more than that and all they do is look good. (granted I didn't buy most of them they came on the bike...)
(Message edited by delta_one on March 08, 2010) |
Cataract2
| | Posted on Monday, March 08, 2010 - 03:46 pm: |
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Well, that's a problem in that it won't fit the 1125. What causes it not to fit? I want to get 2, one for my XB and one for the 1125R. If I can't then I might just stick with what I'm doing in that I'm getting the wheels with the 3 bearings in them for both. |
Hootowl
| | Posted on Monday, March 08, 2010 - 03:50 pm: |
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"Every one of my belt failures happened while accelerating over a pothole or other sudden bump "
Me too, and I wasn't even on it. Railroad track, speed bump. I was coasting over the speed bump.
I want to retrofit a spring tensioner and use an 04+ XB belt on my tuber. |
Sifo
| | Posted on Monday, March 08, 2010 - 06:58 pm: |
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I remember noticing for the first time looking at dyno videos, its weird to think that the weight transfer makes less difference than the drive line torque until you really think about how a car squats because it weight 10x what your bike does.
A properly engineered suspension will still lift a car. I've seen a buddies '67 Belair lift the rear a good 5-6 inches accelerating through 1st gear. Neat to watch when you are right next to the rear quarter panel. |
Ratbuell
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 09, 2010 - 12:28 am: |
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Hard acceleration causes the rear of a motorcycle to lift, not squat.
Fair enough.
Regardless, in my situation there was little to no swingarm/suspension "snap" to cause the failure, it was solely driveline lash. |
Xenox
| | Posted on Friday, March 12, 2010 - 07:48 pm: |
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I've been away for a little while sorry to get back so late........
Another very noticeable benefit is that power take up is significantly smoother with the FST . Even shifting into first following a cold start up is soft and cushy now. I used to cringe occasionally when I'd do hard up shift by accident, they were so hard I could feel a bang through the bike, with the FST no such harsh take up exists any more.
Also the pothole jars and such shocks through the bike have significantly been reduced, I don't know if the suspension working more efficiently is to credit, or a less tightly strung belt is to credit , maybe both.
It's funny that belt breakage was last on my mind when I bought this, refer to my previous post about all the reasons I did buy it for, or ended up realizing after I installed it. I'm getting the feeling that this unit will more than likely help belt life though. |
Mr_grumpy
| | Posted on Friday, March 12, 2010 - 09:51 pm: |
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As I previously posted if you want opinions on FS tensioners go look on UKBEG.
I expect the reason the XB tensioner won't fit on the 1125 is because the belt runs on the other side. |
Cataract2
| | Posted on Friday, March 12, 2010 - 11:03 pm: |
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No, I took a look. The 1125 setup for the idler drive is totally different from the XB. Would need a whole new setup to make that work. |
Xenox
| | Posted on Friday, March 12, 2010 - 11:24 pm: |
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I know nothing about the drive on the 1125r.Is there drag on the 1125?
If you take your front pulley cover off, maybe your swing arm pivot will now be viewable. If so and your idler wheel lines up directly underneath or very close to underneath the swing arm pivot, they have set up that belt drive properly from the factory! Deflections in the suspension up or down will result in very very little to no tension change. |
Delta_one
| | Posted on Saturday, March 13, 2010 - 12:57 am: |
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quote:A properly engineered suspension will still lift a car. I've seen a buddies '67 Belair lift the rear a good 5-6 inches accelerating through 1st gear. Neat to watch when you are right next to the rear quarter panel.
let me rephrase, I have never seen it with street tires. I'm not sure I have even seen it with DOT slicks, hard to get enough power to stick if you are going to jack the back. wrinkle walls no problem standard race slicks sure. but I normally see more chassis flex and twist than rear end lift, one front tire in the air coming off the line and the whole car seems to rise like a sprinter out of the blocks.
gotta love toys with engines. |
Sifo
| | Posted on Saturday, March 13, 2010 - 08:15 am: |
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let me rephrase, I have never seen it with street tires. I'm not sure I have even seen it with DOT slicks, hard to get enough power to stick if you are going to jack the back. wrinkle walls no problem standard race slicks sure. but I normally see more chassis flex and twist than rear end lift, one front tire in the air coming off the line and the whole car seems to rise like a sprinter out of the blocks.
It's all about getting tuned correctly. My friends Belair was with street tires stuffed inside stock wheel wells. This was back in the early 80s too so tire technology has gotten better since then too.
It doesn't take much power to lift a car, it's just about tuning it for the amount of power you are putting to the ground. Make it lift too easily and you loose the benefit if you have the power and tires. |
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