| Author | Message | ||
     Larryjohn |
I might be in the minority, but I am a little glad Buell has not been sold to another company like BRP just to become a second tier brand again. It may be better than the HD marriage, but the potential pitfalls of that marriage exist with any other company. I just think given the history Buell has had with HD, and the delayed products because of that history, Buell would be better served as an independent company making its own decisions. Does this mean I want to see a small boutique manufacturer with overpriced bikes? No. I think the ideal would be private investment that has no interest in running the business but rather support Erik's endeavors. | ||
| Blake |
I don't believe it was a personal vendetta to scuttle Buell. If there were, why enter into an agreement with EB Racing ??? Some people based on purely personal feelings absolutely fed the fire for HDI to kill off Buell. The agreement with EBR was likely outside the realm of the miserable ones, or may have been an equitable exchange. | ||
| Just_ziptab |
"miserable ones".........  Love it Blake! | ||
| Bluzm2 |
While attending the IMC here in Mpls, I had a chance to talk to some folks much more in the know than I. Also overheard some interesting stuff at the HD booth (I had a tough time even walking by it....). There is much more to this story and it will come out. After this article maybe sooner than later. The Readers Digest version is that HDI folks were worried of the successes of Buell. They had Wandell's ear and fed the fire. Given the successes of the 1125, the race successes and the up coming models and the Baracudda, they were worried. So, throw out the baby with the bath water and concentrate on your "Core Market" and pretend the Buell brand was a mistake. I don't think that's going to fly with the shareholders. On a slight side note, I saw more folks at the Victory booth than the HD booth although it was early on the first day. I heard guys wearing HD apparel saying this or that Victory was their next bike. I heard it no less than 3 times in less than 5 minutes. The next 6 months should be interesting, interesting indeed. Brad | ||
| Swampy |
The thing that makes people mad is not that H-D ended Buell Motorcycles, it's that they didn't sell it! Also, the failure of the current H-D sales model for the new Sportster 48 is that the youth of America are not flocking to the new Brittish Enfield, think about it, The youth of America are not buying the Brittish Enfield, it is a very small cottage group that is made up of nostalgia seekers, not the bulk and future of motorcycling in America. H-D has seen the future, it is the past, and they are not in it. What a shame | ||
| Oddball |
Les Miserables (sorta fits with a little imagination) I Dreamed a Dream There was a time when men(HD) were kind, when their words were soft and inviting. There was a time when love was blind, and the world was a song, and the song was exciting. There was a time. Then it all went wrong. I dreamed a dream in time gone by. When hope was high and life worth living. Then I was young and unafraid, when dreams were made and used and wasted. There was no ransom to be paid. No song unsung, no wine untasted. But the tigers come at night, with their voices soft as thunder. As they tear your hope apart, as they turn your dream to shame. I had a dream my life would be, so different from this hell I'm living. So different now from what it seemed. Now life(HD) has killed the dream. I dreamed. Do You Hear the People Sing Do you hear the people sing, singing the song of angry men? It is the music of a people who will not be slaves again. When the beating of your heart echos the beating of the drums, there is a life about to start when tomorrow comes. Will you join in our crusade? Who will be strong and stand with me? Beyond the barricade is there a world you long to see? Then join in the fight, that will give you the right to be free. Will you give all you can give, so that our banner may advance? Some will fall and some will live. Will you stand up and take your chance? | ||
| Gentleman_jon |
As much as I despise Harley, and what they have done to Buell, perhaps it is important to keep things in financial perspective. In 2008, the last year for which full results are published, Buell sales comprised about 2% of Harley sales. It is not unreasonable, or unusual for a company under duress to shed a division that does not appear to be related to the core brand. Of course just shutting the division down, instead of selling it, or even giving it away to the employees, is absolutely unconscionable. It is stupid, mean, and not in the interest of the stockholders. In other words, business as usual for The Motor Company. | ||
| Brumbear |
This is IMHO not as simple as that. Why was Buell less than 2%.Buell were on the rise Harley on the decline they are (HD) 70 some odd % off last years volume. Perhaps they focused on the wrong core. The numbers should be done on how many harley's were sold vs buells at participating dealers only. It would IMHO give you a real life potential to the actual percentage difference. I understand H-D would still outsell Buells but the percentage would be higher and add in a little dealer ambition as there was very litle in regards to buell. You will get a healthier picture of where things would or could have gone. They missed the mark completely my confidence is shaken in theMOCO's ability to make good decisions with any product at this point. | ||
| Ferris_von_bueller |
Some people based on purely personal feelings absolutely fed the fire for HDI to kill off Buell I absolutely believe that to be true. Dale Franks said as much a few months ago before the closing of Buell. The Readers Digest version is that HDI folks were worried of the successes of Buell. If that is the case, HD is in worse shape than I thought. HD owns Buell. I don't see the logic in fearing their growth and success unless you are middle management and fear you may have to answer for your failings, in regards to HD's growth and success or lack there of. Reminds me of the bunch in Washington who are only concerned with themselves. | ||
| Wolfridgerider |
Every time I read one of these threads.... I start talking to myself and my blood pressure goes up... at least I wont need to worry about buying another bike for a long time.... | ||
| Spiderman |
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| Two_buells |
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| Two_buells |
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| Glitch |
Corporate greed, good grief! It wasn't greed that killed the Buell, it was a poor business decision. | ||
| Ft_bstrd |
Greed at least operates on behalf of it's own interests. This was firing a round into your own head. | ||
| Tom_b |
To find out that there actually was a chance to keep the buell plant open and continue on with the 1125 and newer models and not take advantage of it. is just too stupid to beleive. | ||
| Hughlysses |
Well, there's always the possibility, however slim, that Erik's contract with the MoCo gives him some sort of right of first refusal and THAT's why they didn't sell to BRP. We still haven't seen ANYTHING authoritative about exactly what kind of rights Erik has to any of Buell's IP. Interesting thought anyway... | ||
| Trevd |
Keep in mind that Erik has mentioned somewhere (can't remember where) that EBR racing is to keep things going for a year... I think the plans are already in place for after a year. Me thinks 2011 will be a big Buell year. | ||
| Diablo1 |
Well, there's always the possibility, however slim, that Erik's contract with the MoCo gives him some sort of right of first refusal and THAT's why they didn't sell to BRP. We still haven't seen ANYTHING authoritative about exactly what kind of rights Erik has to any of Buell's IP. Interesting thought anyway... There couldn't be a secret deal with EB to get the company in 2011. HD is a publicly held company. Secret deals get you in big trouble with the SEC. If HD turned down an offer from Rotax, and then wound up selling Buell to EB next year for less money than the Rotax offer, the shareholders would likely rise up and throw out the board of directors. HD needs cash now, not next year. They may not even be around next year. | ||
| Mmmi_grad |
Buell was a part of hd in every way.All through the best years hd has ever ••••••• seen. Sales might not have been booming but the street cred for there being an American made sport bike was worth more than any paper or sales figure. They •••••• up the last time and its time to pay them back. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5rgR1GLLhXk (Message edited by mmmi_grad on February 07, 2010) | ||
| Hughlysses |
There couldn't be a secret deal with EB to get the company in 2011. HD is a publicly held company. Secret deals get you in big trouble with the SEC. If HD turned down an offer from Rotax, and then wound up selling Buell to EB next year for less money than the Rotax offer, the shareholders would likely rise up and throw out the board of directors. HD needs cash now, not next year. They may not even be around next year. I agree that Buell Motorcycle Company is dead and that there can't be any "secret" deals with Erik. But that doesn't necessarily preclude Erik having the rights to the intellectual property produced by BMC. Erik could own the rights to the designs, patents, etc., and (for instance) have a one or two year "non compete" clause in his contract. This would prevent HD from selling BMC or the designs to anyone else although it wouldn't force them to sell BMC to Erik. They made the decision not to sell. All this would fit with Erik starting a new motorcycle company in a year or two. This is complete speculation on my part. | ||
| Elvis |
Since October 15th: | ||
| Brumbear |
http://quote.morningstar.com/Stock/s.aspx?t=HOG | ||
| Doz |
Elvis, how does that chart compare to years previous during the same time period? Don't get me wrong, I hope the moco tanks but maybe the sales are down because of the winter months? | ||
| Elvis |
Doz, I don't know that there are any strong seasonal trends (I think investors are smart enough to understand that motorcycle sales drop in the winter months and those drops aren't indicative of the strength of the company). . . . but if you look at Harley stock long term, you can see that they've had an ugly ride for the past several years. Things were looking up through most of this year, but I think Oct. 15th emphasized how poor the management and outlook for the future may be and the positive trend that had been developing began to reverse itself. Harley NEEDS cash and I'd like to be optimistic (as many seem to be) that there's something positive happening behind the scenes, but I have nothing other than hope to make me believe that's true. The more I hear comments from Harley (such as their fourth quarter report) the more I realize they really may be as dumb and ignorant of the motorcycle market as they seem to be on the surface. I just can't see how management that seems to dislike motorcycles can continue with nothing more than empty marketing slogans. They should have made Erik CEO and brought some passion back into the company rather than cutting Buell.  . . . again, I'm really starting to think they may be as dumb as they seem and that's just a shame for a brand that has the history of Harley. | ||
| Whatever |
The whole thing sucks big hairy moose nuts. Well it sucks big smelly sweating hairy moose nuts!  | ||
| Doughnut |
Would people PLEASE stop talking about my nuts! | ||
| Methed |
For me, all that I can do to reconcile this entire mess as is remember that this is corporate think in action. When the leadership who originally led the charge to draw HD out of AMF left the MoCo, it was the beginning of the end. 'The Eagle Soars Alone' has become a flightless bird, plucked of its feathers, and kept in a cage to squat out golden eggs. I know all too well of failed attempts at conglomerization through forced consolidation, and additionally how the IPO concept does not bode well for all organizations. HD will end up being sold and those who got out of their investments while they had the chance will be among the profitable. Sorry, nothing that hasn't been said already. I will say about BRP that the rumors of their desire to restart the cycle side of the Can-Am brand goes back to well before Buell first released the 1125, so it would certainly be a legitimate response for them to diligently approach HD to nab up a ready-to-produce product such as Buell. An 1125 Can-Am or Buell under the BRP range? Hell, I'd hit that--and hard! I get all left-brain thinking about the products that were all-but ready to go: the Griffin, Baracuda II, and the potential for an 1125 Ulysses... | ||
| Nevrenuf |
i don't really want to know how either one of you know what moose nuts smells like but to be an optimist, there's more to the one year agreement than meets the eye. one day there was going to be a new facility then the next their shutting the old one down. maybe they are just using it for a tax rightoff and get all their duckies in a row. they could possibly be starting off with new and more high tech tools and equipment. one of the things you don't hear is any of these people defending their actions for doing this. keeping pretty much tight lipped. i am still hopefull although i'm not gonna hold my breath. kinda like playing the lotto. i'm not betting on that to make me rich and realized a long time ago that i have to work the rest of my life. | ||
| Ulynut |
Let me make myself clear. I have never smelled a moose nut, nor do I have a desire to. I only described said nuts as hairy. Not that I have inspected any moose nuts very closely, this was purely an assumption, being that most moose I've seen were otherwise covered in hair.  |
