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Lemonchili_x1
Posted on Monday, February 01, 2010 - 07:32 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

I would *love* to know how much money H-D wasted... I mean invested, in coming up with the "48", and how much they'll spend marketing it.

Put another way - There were five guys plus Willie in that pic. If five guys from Buell had been given the same amount of $$$ as these guys to come up with, say, a new XB variation, what do you think they'd come up with?

First time I've noticed Willie G in any official capacity in a long time. Was he really involved in the 48, or is he there to help the bike get more publicity?
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Swordsman
Posted on Monday, February 01, 2010 - 09:24 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)


First time I've noticed Willie G in any official capacity in a long time. Was he really involved in the 48, or is he there to help the bike get more publicity?


I noticed that as well. Gotta' be for publicity... as long has he's been around, he's gotta' know this rehash is a crock. Sure, Buell may have parts-binned the XB to death, but each iteration DID actually accomplish something different, despite the similar looks. H-D can't seem to get beyond the cosmetics... over...and over....and over. Looking back, it's a frikkin' miracle the VROD ever saw light of day. And wouldntcha know, Erik had a hand in that (albeit reluctantly, since we all know how that came about).

~SM

(Message edited by Swordsman on February 01, 2010)
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Ratbuell
Posted on Monday, February 01, 2010 - 09:43 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Oddball - well...we keep selling them. Can't keep 'em in stock, even the top-dollar FLHTCUSE5.

Personally...I don't see spending the same amount of coin on a motorcycle as I'm going to spend on a 2400sf garage...but to each his own, I suppose.
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Ft_bstrd
Posted on Monday, February 01, 2010 - 10:32 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

We've got 2 CVO Dynas that have been there as long as I've been there (Since June).
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Milt
Posted on Monday, February 01, 2010 - 10:38 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Didn't Erik have a hand in the Evo engine, too?
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Reg_kittrelle
Posted on Monday, February 01, 2010 - 10:56 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Here's a radical thought guys...

What if the "48' is actually a sales success as is its sibs the Iron 883 and Nightster?
Should Willie et al said, "No, we can't produce a profit-generating motorcycle because, well, because of lot of riders who don't like Harley won't like it?"

I have a difficult time faulting Harley for building something that the market wants.

Yeah, they've made some dumb moves, but beating up on them for everything they do is even dumber.

(btw, the early buzz shows it will be a success)
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Court
Posted on Monday, February 01, 2010 - 12:41 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

>>>Yeah, they've made some dumb moves

And some dumb MOVIES.

Let's see if the one they quickly pulled off HD-net hailing the introduction of the "48" ever resurfaces.

I'm betting not.

I agree that Buell owners, particularly at this time, make a poor Harley-Davidson focus group.
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Reepicheep
Posted on Monday, February 01, 2010 - 12:58 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)


quote:

I agree that Buell owners, particularly at this time, make a poor Harley-Davidson focus group.




The statistics would be easy to summarize though...

...
Question 17: Do you prefer a flat or glossy paint scheme?
Answers: 100% of respondents were of the opinion that Harley Davidson can shove their &^%^&*& motorcycles up their *&&^%&*.

Question 18: Will seat height an important factor in choosing your next motorcycle?
Answers: 100% of respondents were of the opinion that Harley Davidson can shove their &^%^&*& motorcycles up their *&&^%&*. While running.

...
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Blake
Posted on Monday, February 01, 2010 - 01:09 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Why Bill! You've surprised me!

Was too cool to see the James Gang Racing team announce that they'll be riding their 1125R in the Daytona 200 this year. Wish I could be there to support their effort. Paul and crew are a class act. I feel badly for expressing my ire in general WRT H-D, when it really was just the board and a few personal vendettas that deserve it. There are plenty of good folks there too, Paul being one of them for sure. He's a real credit to the company and likely deserves more than what they are paying him.
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Court
Posted on Monday, February 01, 2010 - 01:11 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

I'm not a good person to ask . . . I had HOG shorted at $23.00 and cashed in last week.

I'm going to send CFO Olin, a genius in his own right, a thank you note.

Hey Bill . . . you and I rode it up from $8.00 together . . you should have shorted it with me.

: )


quote:

2/1/10, (NYSE:HOG), $23.01, "SELL-SHORT" HARLEY DAVIDSON (HOG) Stock
HOG opened at $22.95 and it is $+0.27, (+1.19%). Today's trading range is $22.71 - 23.31. 1y target price is $27.68.


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Oldog
Posted on Monday, February 01, 2010 - 01:27 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Personaly, I am still mad about how Buell was dealt with, and I have to wonder about the long term implications at moco.

the moco product does not interest me, I still go back to the time in highschool me and some friends visited the local Harley shop ( long before SMHD was in biz in lilburn ga ) and I cant get the sight of new bikes with bread pans under them outa my head,

the Nightster, Iron, and now the 48 well
Ppppppfffffffftttttt who cares,
HD wants to open the market up build simple strudy, affordable bikes that young folks can afford and THEN merchandise them to death, Buell Xb9 city cross or the Blast fit both of those categories, the 9 series were smooth and tractable with enough zip to realy enjoy, the Buells deviod of all the chrome and expensive finished parts,

the Xr1200 IMO is a prime example of whats WRONG at HD 600lb performance bike, same reason the V-Wad is not doing that well.

Over complicated, over weight, over priced
I bet HD could not build a 6,000$ transportation V2 bike, a shame they had several, the M2, city cross, & Blast come to mind.

face it the 883 is the sopos
rant off....
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Court
Posted on Monday, February 01, 2010 - 01:40 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

It's cool . . . Harley-Davidson is at least going to provide us with some GREAT entertainment over the coming year. . .


quote:

India, US trade mangoes for motorcycles

By Indrajit Basu

KOLKATA - Mangoes and a macho motorcycle brand are the latest diplomatic tools for improving India-United States trade relations. That's the trade deal Indian Commerce Minister Kamal Nath and US Trade Representative Susan Schwab thrashed out late last Friday in a bilateral trade forum in New Delhi. Experts say the move has taken India's reform process a step ahead and removed yet another thorn in trade relations with the US.

After a year of bickering, India finally agreed to import iconic Harley Davidson motorbikes with an engine capacity of 800cc and above, which adhere to Euro-III emission norms. To reciprocate this relaxation, the US agreed to allow the import of Indian mangoes, subject to Indian farmers using irradiation to kill pests instead of using pesticides, which make imported food products unfit for consumption in the eyes of US agriculture officials.

"Mango exports to the US assumes a big symbolic significance, as access to the global marketplace will benefit Indian farmers and consumers, together with their American counterparts," said the Washington DC-based US-India Business Council (USIBC), while in a comment to the press its president, Ron Somers, said: "Trade must be a two-way street." He added that as the Indian economy will benefit by the expanding trade opportunities in US agricultural products, "US industry appreciates that the economic reform process will be accessed and shared by all" and that this also brings down trade "barriers" and improves relations between the countries.

Indeed, the mangoes-for-Harley Davidson deal is a curious case of how trade problems can be created and solved over two consumer favorites. While Indian mangoes are widely regarded as the most luscious and have been exported to Europe and the Middle East for years, the US did not allow the fruit to be imported from India, citing lack of compliance with Food and Drug Administration requirements. That not only hurt India's pride but also deprived over 2 million Indians living in the US of their favorite fruit.

Therefore, as if to hit back, when the Milwaukee-based bike brand - that enjoys cult status yet is struggling to revert to its former financial glory - sought entry into Indian markets around July last year with a request for a lower import duty and easier emission norms, Indian authorities struck back by sticking to their policies.

Meanwhile, even as the visit of US President George W Bush to India in March last year cleared the import of mangoes in exchange for India allowing US farmers to access local markets with their pulses (beans and peas) and almonds, Indian mangoes failed to reach US shores, reportedly owing to India's tough stand on Harley imports.

However, according to its claims, USIBC efforts succeeded in breaking the ice, with India agreeing to relax its norms by way of just an approval certificate (that the bikes adhere to Euro-III emission norms) from an international accredited agency, instead of an elaborate registration process. The US agreed to allow mangoes onto its shores provided India allows pre-shipment inspections by US officials (paid for by Indian exporters) to ensure the absence of pesticides.

"After a gap of 18 years, mangoes can finally be imported to the US, and we [will] get to feast on this delicious fruit that many of us grew up with in India," said Kamala Bhat, a writer of Indian origin who has lived for many years in the US, in her blog. "The mangoes that you find in the US are pale in comparison to the flavorful ones from India. Every time I have caved in and bought a mango in the US it has been a deeply unsatisfying experience."

According to the USIBC, the import of mangoes has a huge commercial significance as well since Indian varieties are likely to dominate the 250,000 ton a year US market. "Since the news about the possibility of the import of Indian mangoes to the US appeared, we have been getting frequent queries from specialty grocery stores as well as transporters," said a spokesperson from the USIBC to the Press Trust of India news agency.

Although mangoes have never been hot favorites in the US, in recent years the fruit has gained in popularity following import from mainly Mexico. But US consumers say Mexican mangoes hardly taste as good as their Indian counterparts. Therefore, to push the country's "wonder varieties", the USIBC has even planned the first-ever "Indian Mango Tasting Festival" at its Global India Summit in Washington from June 27.

The mangoes-for-Harley deal paves the way for the entry of not only Harley Davidson but also many other high-end famous bikes from companies including Yamaha, Suzuki, Honda, Ducati and Triumph. But unlike the prospects of mangoes in the US, the motorcycles are not expected to be a big hit with Indian consumers. That's because while India has agreed to relax its emission norms, it has so far refused to lower the import duty (of 60% on landed price-manufacturer's price plus shipping costs) on high-end bikes, which will mean that a Harley cannot be bought for less than $17,000.

"That's higher than the price of a medium-sized car [like the globally known Honda City] and at that price a Harley [and others high-end ones lined up for India] will compete with cars and not motorbikes," said a spokesman for one of the largest bike makers in India, requesting anonymity.

"India may have a market for luxury cars [like Rolls-Royce, Mercedes Benz and BMW] but that, too, is tiny. I am not sure if the country is a hot market yet for motorbikes, the price of which can fetch a car that features higher in the aspiration-index." This bike maker tried selling a famous German bike for about $11,000 each a few years back, but had to withdraw it from the market after selling only about 250.

Nevertheless, it appears that Indian mangoes may have opened up US grocery store shelves for many other farm products from India. According to Schwab, who visited other organic farming units in the country, the US is trying to learn more about India's farming processes and "is looking for opportunities in food and agricultural products".

Indrajit Basu is a Kolkata-based journalist.




To really appreciate the fun in all this you have to know that Susan Schwab has a bit of a . . . well "reputation" in the field of International Trade.

http://www.alphonsomangoes.com/news.html

http://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/us-india-b usiness-council-hails-arrival-of-indian-mangoes-57 763347.html
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Oldog
Posted on Monday, February 01, 2010 - 01:57 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

It's cool . . . Harley-Davidson is at least going to provide us with some GREAT entertainment over the coming year. . .

I wonder how many? hd's cost what low end cars can cost here, }
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Swordsman
Posted on Monday, February 01, 2010 - 04:45 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Should Willie et al said, "No, we can't produce a profit-generating motorcycle because, well, because of lot of riders who don't like Harley won't like it?"

In my case at least, it has nothing to do with dislike for Harley. If H-D actually did something new, I'd be all high-fives. But this formula of "new paint + 2 accessories = we're f'n geniuses" is getting old. I don't care if it's profitable or not, I won't be singing praises simply because they have mad BS skillz.

~SM
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P47b
Posted on Monday, February 01, 2010 - 06:18 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Indian mangoes. Yeah, Green softballs.
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Reepicheep
Posted on Monday, February 01, 2010 - 06:51 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

I'm too chicken to short. I did take those Harley profits and buy ford stock though. Great cars, and not run by Washington.

Hasn't worked out yet, but hasn't tanked either...
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Oddball
Posted on Monday, February 01, 2010 - 10:52 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

"Let's see if the one they quickly pulled off HD-net hailing the introduction of the "48" ever resurfaces. "

It's back up Court. At 1:52 I get a flashback to the apple 1984 commercial. Just needs a bueller running in while a closeup of Willie G preaches to the choir.


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Cityxslicker
Posted on Monday, February 01, 2010 - 11:15 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

please applaud... who is paying a 30K for a sporty ?

NEEDs, rear sets, a bigger tank, clip ons, inverted front end, 19s front and rear, high mount two-1 header, and an gas shock rear suspension.....

but that would be a whole nouther bike wouldnt it ; )

shiat if they are gonna lego build these things... when are they going to wise up and let somebody walk one through the line with parts they want for say a 5k 'VIP' experience?

meh, but what do I know about sellin bikes ; ) ?
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Swordsman
Posted on Monday, February 01, 2010 - 11:17 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

LOL, he had to encourage the cheering at the beginning. I bet everyone was waiting for the "new" bike to roll out on stage with that Sportster... then it hit them. And how appropriate that Harley's "chick bike" was piloted by none other than a girl?

Did they film this in the 70's or what? Nobody (but paid models) dress up like that to hang out.

~SM

(Message edited by Swordsman on February 01, 2010)
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Cityxslicker
Posted on Monday, February 01, 2010 - 11:25 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

HOg
March 2 $8.42
Nov 2 $25.73

Thanks for the ride, it is probably my last for them for a long while. That October announcement just left me bitter, the November dump was all emotion, no EDGR, f em. They're not going to support my brand (BUELL) then I have no inclination to support theirs.
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U4euh
Posted on Tuesday, February 02, 2010 - 01:00 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Speechless. lets see, How about we cut cost and $#!tcan the Buell brand, hey here is an idea, lets take the remaining parts from the 48 other failures we have had and build a bike that looks so close to the original that nobody will clap when it is introduced. Call it 'new', the new younger rider will never notice the difference.
Hey HD get your head outta your $#% and wake up. All the mags have reader testimonials of how poor of a choice it was, and now this 'new' product.
just makes me sick, SICK I TELL YOU
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Oddball
Posted on Tuesday, February 02, 2010 - 01:05 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Look at the fit, hip, young design team


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Cityxslicker
Posted on Tuesday, February 02, 2010 - 01:31 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

The 'original' peanut tank was from the hummer.... which was DKW war grab and reparations.... Milwaukee didnt even invent the damn thing, yet another parts bin co-op and moniker that they trademarked
http://cdn-3.psndealer.com/e2/dealersite/images/gl endaleharley/1948Hummer.jpg
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Doerman
Posted on Tuesday, February 02, 2010 - 02:33 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Yeah, they've made some dumb moves, but beating up on them for everything they do is even dumber.

(btw, the early buzz shows it will be a success)


I'm not smart enough to tell if I am dumb or not.

I know this:
HD lost maketshare in their segment the last 6 months of 2009.
And is that the same "buzz" that they cashed in on the XR1200?
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Cityxslicker
Posted on Tuesday, February 02, 2010 - 02:47 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

maybe the marketing gurus will come out with a color your sportster grafitti kit ....
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Court
Posted on Tuesday, February 02, 2010 - 05:13 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

I notice the part about "one per dealer" seems absent. I suppose they'll be telling us it's "rare" and therefore sells for $2,000 over MSRP.

Frankly . . . I suspect HD will soon be paying the price for all the folks they gave the "either you take it at that price or someone else will" line several years ago.

I'd be interested in the 48 at around $6,500.
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Swordsman
Posted on Tuesday, February 02, 2010 - 04:44 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Court, I think I heard them say that in the vid about there being one for every dealer. I know I heard it somewhere...?

Again, the fact that no one applauded because they didn't recognize it as the new model is sad AND hilarious.

~SM
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Indy_bueller
Posted on Tuesday, February 02, 2010 - 04:58 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Looking back, it's a frikkin' miracle the VROD ever saw light of day.

Sometimes I think the only reason the VRod was ever built was simply to keep Erik from using the motor.
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Rex
Posted on Tuesday, February 02, 2010 - 05:03 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

they should at least sell it around the price of the triumph bonneville....8-9000. Of course 6500 would be even better...

My bonneville. bought for 6900

[IMG]http://i204.photobucket.com/albums/bb317/buellv/IMG_9145triumphwithsolocafeseat.jpg[/IMG]

[IMG]http://i204.photobucket.com/albums/bb317/buellv/IMG_9145triumphwithsolocafeseat.jpg[/IMG]

(Message edited by rex on February 02, 2010)

(Message edited by rex on February 02, 2010)
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Rex
Posted on Tuesday, February 02, 2010 - 05:05 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

I like this one..REX
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