| Author | Message | ||
     Court |
>>>Hysteresis becomes a problem Hysteria has haunted me for years. . . . you just learn to deal with it. | ||
| Hootowl |
" The ECU just tells the injectors to dump more or less fuel in" As opposed to a gasoline powered engine? pretty sure that's true of any fuel injected engine. | ||
| Hootowl |
Nik, Interesting. I learn something new every day. | ||
| Hootowl |
Point was, electronic throttle control, IMHO, is a good thing. | ||
| Nik |
As opposed to a gasoline powered engine? pretty sure that's true of any fuel injected engine. Gasoline powered engines still have to regulate the air intake with a throttle body. Ironically.. Toyota is doing some work with their variable valve timing technology combined with direct injection to eliminate the necessity of a throttle body on a gasoline engine. Point was, electronic throttle control, IMHO, is a good thing. It can be a great thing if implimented right. (Message edited by nik on January 27, 2010) | ||
| Hootowl |
I'm really a Diesel noob. I have had one for over four years, but beyond taking it in for scheduled maintenance, I have done nothing to it. I've only had to open the hood once, and that was to give someone else a jump. | ||
| Milt |
Hysteresis (sic) can be a problem. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hysteresis | ||
| Hootowl |
Statement from the pedal supplier: http://www.ctscorp.com/publications/press_releases /nr100127.htm | ||
| Mnrider |
HS-can MS-can Multiplex Gateway modules Multiple modules Twisted pair wires That's what todays car's and truck's are all about. Very complexed systems. | ||
| Paw |
Bads1, your biggest mistake was buying a Chrysler product. I owned a 1998 durango with a 7/70 power train at 72,000 the water pump went out and at 78,000 the transfer case blew up...Both problems happened 200 miles away from home and both on weekend trips to boot one of them to pick up my X1. I was stuck on the L.I.E. for 2 hours on a friday night at 10 PM. Until my roadside assistance got me a tow....I owned three Chevy's and two Fords in the past had no problems with any of them my last two Chryslers, nothing but trouble...The only good Chrylers I owned were my 86' Plymouth Horizon and 92' Plymouth Sundance. Go buy a Chevy or Ford and dump that P.O.S. Dodge!!! | ||
| Jasonnennig |
2000 Toyota Celica GTS...Awesome, best car I have ever owned. Fit, finish, reliability, just a great little car any way you look at it. It's my sporty, little, fun car, so I don't put a lot of miles on it. It only has 60k on it know, but WOW it just runs like a top. NO NO NO problems at all. I can see putting major miles on it with no trouble. Over the twenty years I've been driving, I have owned, or my family has owned, just about every make of GM and Ford. IMHO American cars are Junk...They just do not seem to last. It's really to bad too, because I would so much like to buy a good american car but I just don't have the money to flush down the parts and service toilet. I don't know what the new Toyota's are like now, but if they are as good as my 2000. I know what brand my next car will be. | ||
| Froggy |
Yea, American junk, like my 90 Pontiac Bonneville that had 218k miles on it when I totaled it. On the other hand, that 07 Toyota Prius company car at my last job, that thing was amazing! Nazi like traction control kicks in when you hit a puddle, and wouldn't drive across a parking lot with half an inch of snow without going berserk and eventually stopping you. The entire brake system was replaced at 10k because it wouldn't even slow down when standing on the pedal and the mechanics couldn't figure it out. My favorite feature was the doors that don't lock. You can lock them, but when you pull on the handle it unlocks! None of that really mattered, as I didn't get to drive it much before they returned it due to a nasty vibration at 40mph. | ||
| Jasonnennig |
It's funny how that maker of that Prius is still making cars... Not like that maker of the fine Bonneville. I repeat American cars are JUNK. Just to drive it home, my pop owned a 92' Bonneville. It went through two engines and three tranies in it's 200k miles before he traded in the hunk of garbage. That's not even mentioning the countless other little problems we had with it over the years... My Granny has a 2002 Camry. 250k- NO MAJOR PROBLEMS...only a little body rust, It's mechanically sound. She wants to drive it till the doors rust off and she most likely will... | ||
| B00stzx3 |
It's funny how that maker of that Prius is still making cars... Not like that maker of the fine Bonneville. I repeat American cars are JUNK. Just to drive it home, my pop owned a 92' Bonneville. It went through two engines and three tranies in it's 200k miles before he traded in the hunk of garbage. That's not even mentioning the countless other little problems we had with it over the years... My Granny has a 2002 Camry. 250k- NO MAJOR PROBLEMS...only a little body rust, It's mechanically sound. She wants to drive it till the doors rust off and she most likely will... LOL. Gonna go home and take my 94 Ford Explorer with 390K original miles out for a spin. Or The F150 with 200k+ problem free miles. My old GTI though...man that thing was fun. When it ran. After I put $1500 in that POS. Also gonna give my buddy a ride to work because his 1 year old Acura TL is in the shop...for the 3rd time in a year. He sure does love my Focus (Message edited by b00stzx3 on January 28, 2010) | ||
| Crusty |
HUNGRY? OUT OF WORK? EAT YOUR RICE BURNER | ||
| Jasonnennig |
I'll try not to hit you with my great Toyota Crusty, when your out waving and warming yourself with the flag at the local repair shop, LOL...  (Message edited by jasonnennig on January 28, 2010) | ||
| Edgydrifter |
Wait, so all the unemployed need to do is buy an American car and they'll magically have jobs and food? Dude, that's genius. | ||
| Mudinmyvaynes |
I have a 1998 Chevy Silverado with 100k+ miles on it and the only thing that ever went wrong with it was those stupid ambient light sensors so the headlights pop on, a broken tie rod, leaky 4wd actuator gasket and that't it. Why Toyota, or any car maker for that fact, thought it wise to make everything automated I have no clue. Drive-by-wire? Brake-by-wire? Steering-by-wire? Those are the 3 most important things when driving, they should have always stayed manual for the simple fact electronics f**k up. (Message edited by mudinmyvaynes on January 28, 2010) | ||
| Hmartin |
"Everyone is always on the American auto maker about quality and recalls..." and I don't see how Toyota's faring any better. Lots of bad press here. GM's getting a swipe in as well. Here's something to think about, though: - Bridgestone Firestone recall - 6.5 million tires - 271 people killed, thousands injured before any action is taken. - GM saddle tank recall - 4.7 million trucks - GM learns of problems in 1973, does nothing until forced by NHTSA to issue recall in 1993 - over 1,800 people burned up. - Ford ignition switch recall - 8 million vehicles - 11 deaths, 31 injuries, 100's of fires prior to recall. - Toyota floor mat recall - 4.3 million vehicles - 5 deaths, 2 injuries prior to recall. - Toyota accelerator recall - 2.3 million vehicles - accidents or injuries unknown, sales halted. If nothing else, give Toyota credit for facing the problem head-on, knowing it would cost them 10 figures or more. Someone at Ford once quipped that "insufficiently robust design" is what happens "when MBA's tell engineers how to build cars." It would appear that Toyota has been lured into making the same compromises and is now paying dearly for it. | ||
| Froggy |
Ummm.... Its not. The feds have stopped production of most of their models.
Funny, they closed the Pontiac brand, but you can still buy the Cadillac badged variant (DTS).
Thats great! Because if it was true, he would of gotten rid of it the first time the engine or transmission went. Not many will waste a ton of money fixing a car they ruined unless it is under special circumstances.
Thats great, especially how the older Toyota's were plagued with rust problems. Toyota recently bought my neighbors old truck back for more than it was worth due to the rust issues. To replace it he got a truck that has been proven to go over a million miles, a Chevy Silverado. | ||
| Froggy |
Electronic controls improve fuel economy and emissions, which is getting more and more important these days. Also when done right, electronic controls are safer and more responsive than manual ones. | ||
| Aesquire |
Once upon a time... ( bear with me here, I lived through a lot of this..) In WW2 a couple of guys names Shewhart & Deming invented statistical process control. SPC. It was a new way of doing inspection & adjustment on machine tool made stuff. In the old days, a guy on a lathe or mill would bang out 100 parts or so a shift & then the pallet of parts would go to a quality control guy who would measure some, or all of them. Bad stuff was sent back for rework or scrap, recriminations made by managers etc. management & frankly the rest of the guys on the floor hated the QC guy. He told them bad things...like you have to make this again. What a jerk! He also wasn't usually as dirty as everyone who worked for a living, kept wiping off his tools and obviously didn't work hard. Then came the need to make more, faster, or America was going to be the last free land on Earth...IF we didn't get all killed by the nazi's or the Emperor, some guy with glasses..... So these geniuses came up with the idea of making a part, measuring it, and then tossing it on the pallet.... Now, while most machinists are more than capable of using measuring tools, they prefer to make the dang widgits, 'cause that's how they get paid. So jigs to hold dial indicators, a color code, easy to follow instructions and a process on how to make stuff was developed, that was not only fast, but let the machinist make adjustments in his tools so that very few parts were bad anymore! Huzzah! That was SPC. After the war, Deming went to Detroit to sell this idea for making cars, not just fighter plane parts or Bombers. He got a cold shoulder. So he went to a country that was rebuilding it's industry with our help, since we bombed it out of existence, Japan. They thought he was a genius, and began a series of improvements in technique and technology that in the 1960's started making Toyota, Honda, etc. household names. In the 70's Detroit suddenly realized they had competition besides that dang Beetle, and sent people over to Japan to find out what the deal was. They were told that the Americans taught them how to do things right, WTF? After much blame & finger pointing, Detroit got Deming's followers to teach them the stuff they knew in the 40's and forgot, since it wasn't the way Granddad ran things, so Detroit's QC & profit margins improved. A lot. Now the above is a very simple version of what happened. The guy who taught me SPC was also teaching GM, had already taught China, and warned us to not worry about Japan, since they had developed a middle class, their old way of company loyalty was going down the tubes, and japanese stuff was going to be no better quality or cost than U.S. stuff. ( as long as we listened to him & his brother quality control guru's ) But China! "If they ever get their shit together combining communism & capitalism, they got a billion workers that will make 5 bucks a week and think they are rich. We will get snowed under in a way that will make the japanese invasion look like a blip." He was right. So, in a nutshell, 1970-80's the Japanese did have a QC advantage over the U.S. in cars. It wasn't easy for them, and it took a while to build good cars that Americans wanted, but they figured it out, and still have a clue. In the 1980's American car makers caught on, and the cars got a lot better. ( they HAD to, the late 70's -early 80's cars were crapola with insane work arounds for emission controls, and a constantly changing safety standard to deal with ) Ford, GM & Chrysler all got better. Ford got hammered with the Pinto & Explorer problems...but learned. Chrysler, that IMHO was finally making good stuff after they moved on from K-cars ( the LH series cars, Intrepid etc. were quite good as were the trucks ) but their Quality plunged when Mercedes got them. I think it's getting better again.... or was before the govt. takeover. Now, I was a Dodge driver for years, mostly vans. Although I did have problems with tranny line leaks, in one minivan, all in all very good cars. the Bridgestone/Firestone problems have to give some blame to Ford, for the explorer debacle. But Firestone is a company that has repeatedly made deadly tires over the years, the 500, etc. When Bridgestone bought them, they de-unionized the plant allegedly because of a threatened strike because of unsafe working conditions. Moved in inexperienced scabs, and Quality went down. I won't buy Firesore or Bridgestone tires. I think they've proven that the bottom line is more important than customers lives. That's my opinion. IMHO American cars can be just as good as anyones, but the bean counters screw it up. Chevy interiors were probably great on the show car, then the accountants made them do it in as cheap a plastic as they could get away with. In Automobile making, for every engineer that actually designs, say, a doorpanel clip, there are 7 who work to make it cheaper. By .04 cents. A Japanese company has a hard time sounding right to American ears. In Japan, your companies products kill some people, you apologize in public, fix the problem, and it's good. The President of the company would actually get the victims families together and tell them he's sorry. Here, that's an admission of guilt & a certain win in a lawsuit. I think Toyota's doing ok. We'll see. | ||
| Crusty |
Here's another of those crappy, unreliable American cars: http://growingbolder.com/media/technology/vehicles /romancing-the-road-259598.html#content_tabs | ||
| Bads1 |
I'll stick to my Imports??? Point Blank I've had better luck. The Dodge goes bye bye soon as I can afford to get rid of it. Got a feeling it going to be either a Subaru Legacy 2.5 Turbo,Subaru Forester or my choice a Toyota 4 Runner Limited. Had one and it was one hell of a truck. | ||
| Jasonnennig |
It's not a good idea to be calling me a liar Froggy with nothing but bull to back it up with man. That's NOT cool... I come from a farming community and when something breaks me and my extended family fix it ourselves if possible, and it usually is. We don't just junk it and say oh well, lets roll the dice on a new one. That's not how we operate. That goes for all the work we put into that piece of sh!t Bonneville. When it failed we fixed it. Live and learn... When it came time to buy new it was not a GM. I know from personal experience Toyota and Honda make a quality product that any of the US auto makers could learn a lot from. On a side note, I have an uncle who is a automotive engineer. He went to General Motors Institute. My Late Grandfather was a Service Tech at a Chevy dealership for Forty years. My Uncle and Grandfather, before his death, both drive nothing but Honda's and Toyota's. And boy I have heard some great stories about why the Big Three have went south. I'm so sorry to say thats where HD is headed if they don't clean up their act fast too. If you feel good inside buying a second rate product...DO IT, God Bless I'm no less of an American for putting my $$$ to their best possible use personally. | ||
| Wheelybueller |
My.02... I have a 1999 Pontiac Sunfire,We bought it with 20k on the odo. It now has 220k. Ill give you the dash has squeaked since we bought it. other than that,and tires,oil,maintenance we have $0.00 in "repairs" My 2001 Chevy Silverado 4door has 150k I am having the cab corners done this winter. (If your from a snowy area you understand) Again Maintenance only. I am a GM guy,We just bought our daughter a Saturn. My winter beater is a 1995 pathfinder with 214k I have spent more on repairs than the GM's I own. I believe America Builds GOOD cars,we have to overcome the stigma from about 1974 through somewhere around 1990. | ||
| Wheelybueller |
Hell Yeah Toyota This!  | ||
| Jasonnennig |
I drove a 09' SS Camaro....Booooooooooooo I thought I was in a clunky tractor. It drove like an overpowered, bucket of bolts. All it has going for it is looks. The interior was terrible, very uncomfortable....  For a little more, I know I would take a GTR... (oh, and by the way, Pontiac is now a Pipe-Dream remember....) (Message edited by jasonnennig on January 29, 2010) | ||
| Dentguy |
Not sure an extra $50,000 on the GTR's MSRP could be considered a little more, but it's a great car. | ||
| Brumbear |
Ok lets get something into perspective here It's me I am the problem I had a Ford edge it was a total POS so I bought a camry the day after I bought it VIOLA the biggest recall ever. But seriuosly the thing that gets me this car was assembled here in the US my van my Trans am and my minni van were built in Canada oh BTW my sons mitsubishi lancer was supposedly built in Virginia. I am just looking for a good car I won't buy American anymore because they are American cause actually they are not. I just want a car as good as my motorcycle |
