| Author | Message | ||
     Johnnymceldoo |
We have a new administration with a president that touted and bragged he voted against sending troops to Iraq yet we are still there even though most of his fans think we should withdraw. So is he privy to intelligence which suggests we should stay the course or is he trying to make sure history books dont call it a failure for the Bush presidency? | ||
| Wolfridgerider |
We will never be out of Iraq once they built a Post Exchange... we are there forever.... Just ask the peeps of Okinawa | ||
| Liquorwhere |
Regardless of how we got in there, Iraq is probably the most strategic location in the middle east. Oil is abundant, access to a port, borders quite a few countries of interest. I don't see us ever giving up that chunk of real estate as long as we need oil, period. | ||
| Ferris_von_bueller |
FYI, I didn't start this thread | ||
| Johnnymceldoo |
Alot of politicians both parties were making the case for a fight with Saddam before 2000. | ||
| Ft_bstrd |
Have you seen the size of the US embassy in Iraq? Regardless of what one administration vs. another, Iraq is not a matter of political whim. We will be involved in Iraq for decades to come. We still have 28,500 troops in North Korea. | ||
| Sifo |
Regardless of how we got in there, Iraq is probably the most strategic location in the middle east. Oil is abundant, access to a port, borders quite a few countries of interest. I don't see us ever giving up that chunk of real estate as long as we need oil, period. We were already in Saudi and Kuwait with all those things. Your reasoning seems to fail the reality test. We will be there for a long time though. We would have been in that region for a long time anyway. Good riddance to a evil tyrant. The Iraqi people now have a chance to make something of their country again. I wish them the best of luck. | ||
| Sifo |
We still have 28,500 troops in North Korea. Not sure of the numbers, but we still have troops in Germany too. | ||
| F_skinner |
We still have 28,500 troops in North Korea. Do you mean South Korea? | ||
| Wolfridgerider |
north... south... 220... 221... whatever it takes. | ||
| Madduck |
For what it's worth we still have troops in Cuba, Spanish-American war was over in 1890'ish. Probably still paying taxes on the war debt. | ||
| F_skinner |
That seemed to be of some importance when I was stationed there (South Korea) however 50 years prior my Dad was in North Korea. Mark, when I see you at Homecoming I have a great Marine story to tell you about an Old SgtMaj who wanted to go back to Korea and see his son and some of the ground he pounded in the Korean war. He just did not understand why he could not visit North Korea...  Stable Able 1/7 | ||
| Aesquire |
We ARE pulling out the troops, there's a timetable.  I don't see a major U.S. military presence in Iraq for too long, as long as the Iranian's don't be a--holes. But, since they supply weapons, money & safe haven for bad guys now, I'm not optimistic on that one. We will certainly have a base in the boonies of Iraq as long as Iraq is an ally against Iran & AQ, but that has a limited shelf life even after we pull out most of the troops. If you are pessimistic, Iran will nuke someone in the next couple of years, or test a nuke & make a power play, but I'm betting on Tel Aviv, or Baghdad. Really, how many years of "they will have one in 2 years" do you think the world has? To answer the question, I think it's part "I'm not getting the blame" on Obama's part, and partly realpolitic & reality messing up his pie in the sky promises. Obama's commitment to a good Bush legacy is laughable. He blames Bush for everything, now! He just knows he's the one that will catch the blame, especially at this point. IMHO | ||
| Johnnymceldoo |
Ive noticed i dont here a weekly tally of dead servicemen and women anymore. I guess weve got the right person in charge now. | ||
| Theironmaiden22 |
A pessimist is what an optimist calls a realist. I can see Iran nuking someone or at least test one. IMHO I think if there is anyone Iran will hit it will be somewhere in Israel, but Israel has way many more nukes than Iran. So I could see them hitting some part of Iraq. Hell, it's just over the border, I don't think there would be enough time to shoot it out of the sky, and if they did the Iranians would probably have it's trajectory calculated low enough to where fallout would still cause hell. I hope we get our guys out before any of that shit happens otherwise Iran will be a smoldering pile of rubble. | ||
| M2me |
We're on the Bush withdrawal timetable. There will be troops in Iraq to protect Exxon's, BP's, etc. profit interests. That was the whole point of the Iraq War. The pot so far is $3 trillion of US taxpayer's money and some 2000+ US troops KIA. No administration is going to bet against those pot odds. We're all in for the future profits of Exxon, BP, etc. They will make massive profits and we the people will be screwed. That's why we are still in Iraq. Welcome to reality! | ||
| Ft_bstrd |
The pot so far is $3 trillion of US taxpayer's money Ahem. Not quite. www.costofwar.com I doubt these folks are giving a conservative estimate. Obama funded TWO entire Iraq wars with his suckubus bill and TARP plan with nothing to show for it. Makes Iraq look like a bargain. | ||
| Bhillberg |
What people seem to forget/not realize about Iraq is that we are generally not fighting Iraqis in Iraq. 90% of the enemy (KIA and detainee's at least from what I saw) are NOT Iraqis. The good part of this is that Jihadist's from all over the extreme muslim world (Syria, Lebanon, Iran, Chechnya, Saudi, Egypt, you name it) are coming to IRAQ to fight us. While the cost of ANY American life is great (don't debate me on this I know as well as you do how great that cost is I assure you) The fact of the matter is that since we have been leading war in that area of the globe (Afghanistan included) that there has not been a successful terrorist attack on the United States mainland. So, what I am getting at is that even though it is HORRIBLE to lose any American life, WE signed up for that risk by enlisting. The fact that instead of these extremists focusing their hate on a mainland U.S. target where innocent civilians (your wife, my wife, your mother, my mother, your father, etc....) they are targeting military personel who know the danger of enlistment, as opposed to just going to work that morning in the twin towers, I think it is a good thing. I believe that keeping the fight on their front is tactically important. Anyone who blames it on oil, well, I can see what you are thinking but I think you are sorely mistaken. Even IF oil was the purpose, please try to look at the benefit of taking it to them and you might not jump up and down so much about it all. | ||
| Aptbldr |
" ... has not been a successful terrorist attack on the United States mainland." Ft Hood was a failure? Even sorry ole underpants-bomber successfully terrorized most of US, failing only at killing anyone. | ||
| Hootowl |
"There will be troops in Iraq to protect Exxon's, BP's, etc. profit interests" Continuing to chant your mantra won't make it true. | ||
| Paw |
Just like in Korea we have our troops helping them guard their border...America will have a permanent base in Iraq if we already don't. | ||
| Paw |
I don't see us ever giving up that chunk of real estate as long as we need oil, period. Interesting and the Bush's are in the oil business!!! | ||
| Hootowl |
Interesting, so we're in Korea, Japan, Germany, Cuba, etc. for altruistic reasons, but we're in Iraq to steal their oil? Where's my free oil? I want my free oil damn it! Haliburton, Blackwater, Karl Rove and Dick Cheney must be hiding it from me! Those greedy capitalist bastards! | ||
| Metalrabbit |
Bhillberg, Well said! Thank You | ||
| Court |
>>>Interesting and the Bush's are in the oil business!!! Not only interesting . . but fascinating. George H.W. Bush was raised in a very wealthy family and attended Yale University. He had the perfect chance to sit on his ass and enjoy the "good life". He instead chose to join the United States Navy to fight in the war. He was a distinguished aviator and was shot down in combat. He still could have gone back and sat on his ass and enjoyed Vodka tonics on the beach. He didn't. He moved to Texas and was a founder of Zapata Oil, an entrepreneurial oil wildcatting business. I've always found the guy pretty interesting and have kind of admired him. I first met the Bushes while they were at my folks house in Topeka, KS and was immediately impressed with how damn "normal" they both were. If you didn't know anything about the guy or his politics and you met him, without your predispositions and biases, you'd like the guy. I went on 2 years later to serve with The White House Advance Team and had the pleasure of traveling and working with Ronald Reagan and George Bush. They both impressed me. Again . . . and I understand that folks form their opinions based on information they have and that those opinions are necessarily flavored with personal bias based on politics, values and your view of the world. Toss the politics aside for a moment and I'll just share with you that of all the politicians from the Nixon trip to China and some of treatment my fellow team members got from Nixon and Johnson, that both Bush and Reagan were always polite and courteous to me as was Howard Baker. The opposite end of the spectrum would be Bob Dole who was always a pure pain in the ass to be around. Dole once, when a radio transmission came over the car radio while I was driving him, shouted "turn the f***g thing off". I did and am not sure he was smart enough to know I had the same audio in my earpiece. Good example on George Bush. We were in Caspar, WY (Both Caspar and Casper are correct spellings) and I'd had a tough 9 days preparing for him with some of the threats due to the MX missile protesters. He liked to run everyday and on this day we'd have ordinarily run in Albuquerque later in the afternoon. But I had a perfect place in Caspar (ignoring the altitude) where I'd been running everyday since I arrived. It was a high school track, easy to secure, close, convenient and just a lot easier than where we'd be in the afternoon. I had no problem feeling at ease making the suggestion to him and he, in turn, responded "hey, what a great idea, thanks for the tip." I never worked with either Nixon or Johnson. but, based on accounts from my co-workers, this suggestion would have cost me my job. They, instead, told stories of being treated like "domestic staff" and being forced to do stuff like fly Air Force One to Johnson City, TX to be completely stripped by ranch hands at the conclusion of LBJ's terms. Bottom line is that George Bush, like most who have done and accomplished much, has his detractors. . . they all do, it's the price of being a leader. But there is no argument that he's also a very smart, very nice and entrepreneurial guy. Just another view point. He not only took some risks and got in the oil business; he was very successful at it. Less driven folks will often use this to accuse any successful person of ill deeds. It pretty much goes in one ear and out the other of knowledgeable folks. | ||
| Court |
By the way . . . feel free to either read that or tear it apart because it runs counter to your political views. It's strictly a personal observation. Like our t-shirts said . . . .
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| Dbird29 |
re: Bob Dole He's from Russell, KS and you know how some folks are from that town.  | ||
| Court |
I do. One of Dole's law clerks, not one of America's top bond attorneys, was a partner with me in a couple race cars and forming the group that founded and built Heartland Park Topeka. He also, over the years, has built a fun collection of Ducati race bikes which he displays in his garage. We met through a strange coincidence and ended up buying Buells together in 1990. He's the attorney who wrote all the articles of incorporation when we formed, along with Dr. Don Chase, the BUELL OWNERS CLUB. I still laugh every time I hear some of the intellectual property arguments as we had locked down that name 13 years and 4 months before Harley-Davidson ever came on the scene. I've not spent much time in Russell other than to pass through going to and from construction projects in Western, KS. Let's just say if you are driving there . . . it's a LONG way from anywhere. | ||
| Bhillberg |
Ok, you got me. Ft Hood was a successful terrorist attack, maybe. You could make the claim that the underwear bomber was too. First you have to look at the difference between actual terrorism and Jihad. By the definition of terrorism (according to the USMC) even 9-11 is still an ongoing success. The act of terrorism is not actually to kill as many people as they can but to strike fear into as many as they can. This is the way they see to achieve their political/idealogical views. Jihad is not actually terrorism then. Jihad is the act of killing or converting all people of "the book". By dying in Jihad these people believe that they have a secure spot in paradise. Going to Iraq or Afghanistan and fighting Americans/people of the book is a heck of a lot easier for the normal radical in Egypt than to pull off even the underwear bombing, much less another large scale attack. Ft Hood is above all a mistake on our own military in many ways. Some of those ways are not very PC and some are even less PC. Still, to this date, for the past 9 years we have not had a LARGE scale terrorist/jihadist attack on U.S. soil. Part of this of course is the focus of our CIA,FBI, etc. I still and always will believe that possibly a larger part is the fact that we are already in their back yard, so why come to ours to fight? (Message edited by bhillberg on January 21, 2010) | ||
| Oldog |
Court Interesting comments on Bush Senior, My flight instructor told me that GHW Bush was the first or youngest pilot to land and take off from a carrier in the Douglas Toppedo bomber of WW2, he Definately "had a set", considering the mission profile of that aircraft I admire folks like him, part of the "greatest generation" W was not bad, hell we could have had GORE I shudder to think of that.... |
