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Trojan
| | Posted on Wednesday, December 02, 2009 - 10:22 am: | 
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This bike ticks pretty much every box in my wish list except for the poorly designed fly screen (Should have had a 'proper' Norton proddy Racer half fairing) and price...still nobody is perfect 
http://www.nortonmotorcycles.com/bikes/Norton%20Co mmando%20961%20Cafe%20Racer/ |
Gohot
| | Posted on Wednesday, December 02, 2009 - 10:42 am: |
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So.....this is what came from the Dreer Concept. It's good to see the Norton Marque back in bussiness and they are definatly eye candy, and about as trick and cool as you could dream of them being. Likeing twins, I would jump on one of these as a next bike to become devoted to exclusivly since Buell is no longer, and theres no really fine replacement bike to offer what Buell had. It's been a while in the making for Norton, and I'd thought they had de-bunked again as the Dreer thing never got off of the ground really, just a smatterings on ebay, but now their here in earnest, I bet they will have to work double shifts to keep up with demand, literally. Great news......now I wonder how much they will go for above sticker? |
Gohot
| | Posted on Wednesday, December 02, 2009 - 10:50 am: |
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L 13,495 works out to $22,509 US. That might be a hard sell?.........just saying.. |
Trojan
| | Posted on Wednesday, December 02, 2009 - 10:59 am: |
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The 'New' Norton company bought all of the Dreer parts and shipped them back to England. Unfortunately the engine turned out to be not as 'finished' as Kenny Dreer tried to make out and had to be completely re-engineered for production purposes and to extract any useful power. The only similarity now really is the cases and general design layout.
Norton now seem to have some serious money behind tham thankfully, and are also developing a new Rotary engined race bike which I am very much looking forwad to seeing. |
Trojan
| | Posted on Wednesday, December 02, 2009 - 11:19 am: |
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L 13,495 works out to $22,509 US. That might be a hard sell?.........just saying..
They have a long waiting list, so there are plenty of other middle aged blokes around who will pay for a bit of misty eyed nostalgia.
It is after all only the same price as a KTM RC8 or Ducati 1198....bargain basement really. |
4cammer
| | Posted on Wednesday, December 02, 2009 - 01:58 pm: |
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"Unfortunately the engine turned out to be not as 'finished' as Kenny Dreer tried to make out and had to be completely re-engineered for production purposes and to extract any useful power."
Yeah, I have seen this said in a few of the Brit bike mags. Would like to see what Mr.Dreer has to say on this assertion. I always thought he was more Erik Buell and less Hanlon brothers... |
Hardcorps
| | Posted on Wednesday, December 02, 2009 - 02:40 pm: |
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I wish they had a comparison for the three bikes, at a quick glance i couldn't really see a difference that would make the price difference 4,000 euro. |
Rfischer
| | Posted on Wednesday, December 02, 2009 - 03:04 pm: |
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Dreer would/could have lots to say, but likely won't. It's not his way. The Erik analogy is appropriate.
Much of what has appeared from the "new Norton" by way of commentary is pure self-serving spin. I'm curious how long it will take them to actually get this into production. They have a fair engineering distance and many '000,000 of quid to go before anything turns up on the street. |
Mr_grumpy
| | Posted on Wednesday, December 02, 2009 - 03:27 pm: |
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That's near $23,000 at a uk price, you'd need to add shipping & duty to that.
I want one though, better buy another lottery ticket eh? |
Cowboy
| | Posted on Wednesday, December 02, 2009 - 04:00 pm: |
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I would like to see the rebirth of the P-11
Real tough on street or dirt only need a tire change for either. |
Rocketman
| | Posted on Wednesday, December 02, 2009 - 07:44 pm: |
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Actually it's far from self serving spin. Norton has kept MCN informed all along and pretty much avoided the dumb secrecy which surrounds companies like Buell as an example. I imagine this is why the first 50 bikes were snapped up and paid for in full several months ago.
MCN also test rode the pre production model (which I've seen with my own eyes) and published their findings, and released pictures and technical details also published in MCN about the engine redesign. It features a pretty smart balance shaft design too which Dreer's engine did not have.
But of course, this is a Buell board, and an American one at that, so this Norton must be bull shit.
Rocket |
Road_thing
| | Posted on Wednesday, December 02, 2009 - 07:57 pm: |
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Oh, yeah--a candy apple red P11!!
rt |
Cowboy
| | Posted on Wednesday, December 02, 2009 - 08:16 pm: |
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Tks rt Just to look at the photo makes my heart flutter--I owned the 2nd one of those to come to the USA. it was a hell of a bike wish I still had it. as I look at the photo druel is runing down my chin. |
Sifo
| | Posted on Wednesday, December 02, 2009 - 08:45 pm: |
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I would love to have one of those! I threw up a little on the price though. |
Rick_a
| | Posted on Wednesday, December 02, 2009 - 09:01 pm: |
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To my understanding the 'dumb' secrecy is so that bikes being made today are being sold instead of people holding out for those that are in design/development/testing stages.
It's easy not to be secret when it's the first bike in a production stage after a ridiculously lengthy development. This is a very different scenario. People have already known about the damn thing for years.
I like the bike, but at that price I don't think it'll be making it's way back here. |
Redbuelljunkie
| | Posted on Wednesday, December 02, 2009 - 11:25 pm: |
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I wish they had a comparison for the three bikes, at a quick glance i couldn't really see a difference that would make the price difference 4,000 euro.
From what I have read, there is the Special Edition (black/gold) which is the most expensive and being delivered first; the Cafe Racer (yellow) the next most expensive with clip-ons, inverted forks and fly screen; and the Sport (red) the least expensive (standard) model.
I am giving serious thought to purchasing one of these in the near future.
(Message edited by redbuelljunkie on December 02, 2009) |
4cammer
| | Posted on Thursday, December 03, 2009 - 12:12 am: |
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"Norton has kept MCN informed all along and pretty much avoided the dumb secrecy which surrounds companies like Buell as an example."
So, I am guessing Ducati, BMW, Honda, Bimota and ummmmm MV/Agusta all are open about new product development to MCN as well? |
Lemonchili_x1
| | Posted on Thursday, December 03, 2009 - 02:07 am: |
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Looks pretty cool to me, I actually like the look of the Sport myself. Price seems reasonable for what I'd expect would be a relatively limited edition bike.
I'd agree (from my average consumer perspective) that H-D's policy of not releasing info on upcoming products is a lot more stringent than any other bike manufacturer. I knew nothing about the 1125R and the 1125CR coming out until they were officially released, but I knew for example that the VFR1200, the S1000RR, the RSV4, the new Brutale and F4, and the crossplane R1 were in the works just from bits and pieces leaked to the press. |
Rex
| | Posted on Thursday, December 03, 2009 - 02:46 am: |
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I was able to go to visit with Kenny Dreer when he was building the bikes in Oregon. He took me for a complete tour of the place, and showed where the bike assembly was being set up, etc. It was great. Too bad he ran out of money. that would have been a great american built bike. sounded good, looked good, etc. Then he went under. 12,00,000 I believe was what he had spent so far. He was almost there. About 80,000,000 less than what the Hanlon boys did with Excelsior. and much less than what Harley invested in MV Agusta.....Nice Nortons. I wish them luck. |
Rocketman
| | Posted on Thursday, December 03, 2009 - 08:05 am: |
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It's easy not to be secret when it's the first bike in a production stage after a ridiculously lengthy development.
Stuart Garner started HIS company late last year. Considering what he had from Dreer, and that they had no business premises, and needed to redevelop most of the bike including 90% of the engine design then add fuel injection, what is there to argue about? That MCN tested Garner's pre production model back in March? Hardly a secret then.
Rocket |
Rocketman
| | Posted on Thursday, December 03, 2009 - 08:18 am: |
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So, I am guessing Ducati, BMW, Honda, Bimota and ummmmm MV/Agusta all are open about new product development to MCN as well?
Without going into every manufacture, how about Ducati asking the public if they wanted them to produce their 'Classic' range - which they did by public demand.
BMW made no secret of their superbike.
Honda showed their retro 1000's to gauge public demand, and of which are production bikes now. Not the first time they've done so. Likewise the other Japanese manufacturers likewise. Yamaha's MT and Suzuki's B King notably.
As for MV. I sat on a pre production 750 Brutale in 1999. It didn't make production until 2003, some four years later.
Just a thought but could it be the Barracuda was kept secret because it was known by some it would never make production?
I have another theory too. The 1125 was so ugly they kept it under wraps until production ready, knowing they'd make sales from patriotic made in America buyers etc etc. But had it not been made, but shown first, it would have received a resounding NO.
Rocket |
Trojan
| | Posted on Thursday, December 03, 2009 - 08:30 am: |
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Kenny Dreer's Nortons were never finished and never anywhere near ready for mass production. There is a whole lot of work to do between having a 'concept' that needs investment and having a ready to sell complete motorcycle.
Norton under Stuart Garner are at the point of delivering customer spec bikes, unlike Kenny Dreer who, despite being clever and nice, never got near it.
To suggest that Norton is publishing 'self serving' spin is nonsense. Any Spin came from years of Kenny Dreer telling us all that his version was 'almost ready' for production when it clearly wasn't anywhere near. |
Gaesati
| | Posted on Thursday, December 03, 2009 - 08:32 am: |
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I thought the 1125 looked distinctively different, quirky but functional, typically Buell. I liked the way it looked. |
Diablo1
| | Posted on Thursday, December 03, 2009 - 08:41 am: |
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Unfortunately, the new Norton is like a HD. Mostly show, and no go. It's got top end components for suspension and brakes, but the basic engine design is way behind in power and technology. There are ten year old, 1000cc twins out there making 120HP. 80HP for $22K just doesn't cut it. I hope they do build the production rotary engine sportbike - that has some great potential. |
Trojan
| | Posted on Thursday, December 03, 2009 - 10:06 am: |
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If you want bhp then you wouldn't be looking at a Norton (or an air cooled Buell come to that) in the first place. These will sell BECAUSE they have a useable 80bhp and because of the way they look and handle. |
Spiderman
| | Posted on Thursday, December 03, 2009 - 10:48 am: |
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Just build your own!
I restored this for my old boss about 3 years ago...
anything I could refurb was readily available through British Only...
 |
Road_thing
| | Posted on Thursday, December 03, 2009 - 11:17 am: |
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Came out real nice, Spidy!
rt |
Swordsman
| | Posted on Thursday, December 03, 2009 - 11:43 am: |
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That yellow Norton is pretty sharp. I like how open the engine design is... easy to get to things when you have to.
Is that a side reflector attached to the rear shock? If so, that's just plain weird.
~SM |
Rfischer
| | Posted on Thursday, December 03, 2009 - 12:26 pm: |
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Dreer built [remanufactured] original Nortons to specs and quality of detail that embarrass the "new" Norton. But, each was a one-off special and in no way could be turned into a production item. Interestingly, the price for one of his specials was under USD 20K -less than the asking for the "new' iteration.
If one truly wants original Norton cache, without all their foibles, search around for one of his. They turn up occasionally & go for $10-15K depending on the level of re-working done by Dreer.
The new Norton, nice-looking as it may be, is still ersatz retro in execution. And pricey to boot. I expect they will sell, in limited numbers, but question the viability of the enterprise. Time will tell... |
Rick_a
| | Posted on Thursday, December 03, 2009 - 12:33 pm: |
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Rocket, yes...no secret...there is nothing to argue about...
...and Buell has always been 'different in every sense.' It's never been 'just like everyone else because we need looks over proper aerodynamics and design to please the masses.' |
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