| Author | Message | ||
     Ft_bstrd |
Oh, I KNOW THIS cure is worse than the disease. | ||
| Xb12xmike |
What if I choose to stay healthy and don't buy health insurance? I take vitamins, exercise regular, eat right and brush my teeth every day... and never get sick, never get injured and never have to see a doctor. Do I have to buy insurance? When? If I get hired at position...will they force me to pay for it? | ||
| Court |
>>>I am happy to subsidize others' health care if they can't afford it...I'm just nice like that I guess. I am too. How do you feel about paying for 46 new agencies all larger than the Social Security Administration and staffed with high paid government employees? Your money. | ||
| Ft_bstrd |
You can check the throughput efficiency of various charities, for every dollar of donation, $.XX makes it to help the beneficiaries. Not only does very little of what you "give" to the government actually help the people it's supposed to, you end up having to give more than you intend. | ||
| Technomad |
It's not about health care, it's about expanding the power of the political class. | ||
| Gregtonn |
This is the same government that allows a tax deduction for paying alimony but none for paying child support. G | ||
| M2me |
The "public option" will compete WITH the insurance companies. The "public option" as it exists in the House bill is so weak and water downed that it can't compete with anything. After the Senate gets through with it, it will be in even worse shape. Don't worry about private, for profit health insurance companies. They are being taken care of very well by Congress. What about the other 99% of the American people? We're going to get screwed as usual. Health care premiums will continue to rise 3 to 4 times faster than wages. We might get real health care reform someday, but not today. I'm just worried about what the state of the economy is going to be in by the time that finally happens. Oh, well. Maybe I shouldn't get too down. At least the current bill is a tiny, baby step toward reform. The trouble is it took 60 years to make this little step. We don't have another 60 years to take the next step. We are becoming increasingly uncompetitive with the rest of the industrialized world. It's not because of high taxes (our tax burden is third lowest). It's because of our private, for profit based health care system. Everyone else figured out a long time ago that there is no way to control costs with that type of system. Maybe we'll figure it out too someday. Hopefully it won't be too late to salvage anything. | ||
| Ft_bstrd |
The "public option" as it exists in the House bill is so weak and water downed that it can't compete with anything. Considering the exact wording of what the public option is is not contained in the bill, I'd love to know how you know this. Neither is there any description of what the "qualified health plan" is. Both have been left for later drafting. | ||
| Cityxslicker |
Thers are some fundamental ways to take care of the system with out government intervention. Identify who is exactly unisured, wants coverage and doesnt have it? Where is that number. What statist is that? (hint they dont have it) Currently health insurance is tied to your job..... (primarily, but not completely) You can make a group policy buying practices based upon any shared contingent that state underwriting will allow. It is usually called a trust or an indemnity plan. They are very cost efficient, and effective, I have worked for 3 of them in the past. So lets just say the engine that drives the economy (small business with less than 50 employees) wants to get group insurance. Currently under the underwriting rules it is very expensive because it is only those 50 employees and their families that make up the pool of payers and constitute the source of risk. Women cost more then men. Kids cost more than men, Fatties more than those in shape, smokers more then healthy non users, yadda yadda yadda. Solution ?!?! Its call the Small Business Administration/Chamber of Commerce. Take the guidelines down from them that prohibit them from group buying insurance. If you are member of the Chamber of Commerce, in good standing and have an employee based in X industry, you can now group purchase with every other small vendor in X industry to lower your over all premiums. It works. I have seen it, I have audited it, I have underwritten it. IT WORKS. No government involvement (other than get the F*cK out) and at no additional tax pay expense to you. No additional risk to your pocket book, and it actually lowers cost in comparison to a standard commerical policy. G-D dungerheaded morons. Not a single one of them in there is from the health care insurance industry. Blind leading the damn dumb. BOHICA | ||
| Gregtonn |
"At least the current bill is a tiny, baby step toward reform." You call a trillion dollar increase in government spending a "tiny, baby step"? The truth is, it's a leap out of a perfectly good airplane...without a 'chute. G | ||
| Chellem |
What about PEOs? We've utilize the buying power of a PEO to help lower our health care (and workmans comp, and employer practices, blah blah) by joining a PEO of thousands, maybe even millions - not sure - of other employees and employers, in order to increase the buying power and negotiating position. I apologize for not knowing the answer to this, but is that little opt-out tax for employers still in there? Because if so, after a little math, when all the employers figure out that it's cheaper to pay the opt-out tax, won't that dramatically increase the number of people hopping on the public option? Is that factored into their "estimates" of cost? If 5 businesses offer a service to customers that is equal, but one of them can print their own money, how long will the other 4 continue to exist? There is no way for this to end except for a full-on government health care plan. Maybe, with changes and concessions, it might take longer. But I don't see how any other outcome could end. | ||
| Cityxslicker |
Twenty years from now, we will look at this and realize that was the 'fall' of American Capitalism. Twenty years ago this week Communism fell.... why? Economic collapse and the failure of the oligarchy to be able to insure continued blind compliance to the way things were done before. (essentially, they could no longer kill, deport, imprision, or disappear everyone that had dissention against them) | ||
| Blake |
Health care premiums will continue to rise 3 to 4 times faster than wages. Only a complete moron could imagine such a scenario. At some point, the cost kills the product. I pay $180/mo for comprehensive health insurance. I pay more for my family cell phone plan. This is what you call a crisis? This cost is killing me? I did recently shop around. Found a competitor offering similar coverage for just $120/mo. I'm 47 years old. There is a crisis? This cost is killing me? Liars! They have lied so much and for so long they actually believe this nonsense. Someone needs to start beating the truth into the morons. | ||
| Reindog |
OBAMACARE ENDORSEMENTS: WHAT THE BRIBE WAS By DICK MORRIS & EILEEN MCGANN Published on TheHill.com on November 6, 2009 As the suicidal Democratic congressmen proceed to rubber-stamp the Obama healthcare reform despite the drubbing their party took in the '09 elections, the president trotted out the endorsements of the AMA and the AARP to stimulate support. But these -- and the other endorsements -- his package has received are all bought and paid for. Here are the deals: * The American Medical Association (AMA) was facing a 21 percent cut in physicians' reimbursements under the current law. Obama promised to kill the cut if they backed his bill. The cuts are the fruit of a law requiring annual 5-6 percent reductions in doctor reimbursements for treating Medicare patients. Bravely, each year Congress has rolled the cuts over, suspending them but not repealing them. So each year, the accumulated cuts threaten doctors. By now, they have risen to 21 percent. With this blackmail leverage, Obama compelled the AMA to support his bill...or else! * The AARP got a financial windfall in return for its support of the healthcare bill. Over the past decade, the AARP has morphed from an advocacy group to an insurance company (through its subsidiary company). It is one of the main suppliers of Medi-gap insurance, a high-cost, privately purchased coverage that picks up where Medicare leaves off. But President Bush-43 passed the Medicare Advantage program, which offered a subsidized, lower-cost alternative to Medi-gap. Under Medicare Advantage, the elderly get all the extra coverage they need plus coordinated, well-managed care, usually by the same physician. So more than 10 million seniors went with Medicare Advantage, cutting into AARP Medi-gap revenues. Presto! Obama solved their problem. He eliminates subsidies for Medicare Advantage. The elderly will have to pay more for coverage under Medigap, but the AARP -- which supposedly represents them -- will make more money. (If this galls you, join the American Seniors Association, the alternative group; contact sbarton at americanseniors dot org. This e-mail address is being protected from spambots.) * The drug industry backed ObamaCare and, in return, got a 10-year limit of $80 billion on cuts in prescription drug costs. (A drop in the bucket of their almost $3 trillion projected cost over the next decade.) They also got administration assurances that it will continue to bar lower-cost Canadian drugs from coming into the U.S. All it had to do was put its formidable advertising budget at the disposal of the administration. * Insurance companies got access to 40 million potential new customers. But when the Senate Finance Committee lowered the fine that would be imposed on those who don't buy insurance from $3,500 to $1,500, the insurance companies jumped ship and now oppose the bill, albeit for the worst of motives. The only industry that refused to knuckle under was the medical device makers. They stood for principle and wouldn't go along with Obama's blackmail. So the Senate Finance Committee retaliated by imposing a tax on medical devices such as automated wheelchairs, pacemakers, arterial stents, prosthetic limbs, artificial knees and hips and other necessary accoutrements of healthcare. So these endorsements are not freely given, but bought and paid for by an administration that is intent on passing its program at any cost. (Message edited by blake on November 10, 2009) | ||
| Cityxslicker |
You werent thinking that it was a social program for health and improved medical care did you? Its always about the pork. | ||
| M2me |
There is a crisis? This cost is killing me? Liars! They have lied so much and for so long they actually believe this nonsense. Someone needs to start beating the truth into the morons. Here is a link to an article on a lying, moronic site: Wall Street Journal Online Here are some quotes from a couple of other morons:
Bloomberg Yes, there is a crisis. Out of control rising health care costs are killing businesses, and it's especially hard on small businesses, the ones who could create a lot of jobs. We can continue to ignore the problem but if we do that the outcome is not going to be good. | ||
| M2me |
Economic collapse and the failure of the oligarchy to be able to insure continued blind compliance to the way things were done before. If blind compliance to the way things were done before is bad then that would make reforming our health care system good, right? Now you're getting it! | ||
| Liquorwhere |
Yes, there is a crisis. Out of control rising health care costs are killing businesses, and it's especially hard on small businesses, It may be a problem, but not a crisis, try to reform health care when you cannot get water to the hospital, or the patient to the doctor because all the pipes are eroded and leaching like a sieve, the roads are so bad that they are undriveable, bridges are crashing into the rivers because they are decayed and dying and THERE WAS NO MONEY BECAUSE IT WAS ALL SPENT ON SOCIAL PROGRAMS to fix them. So whatever, the sky is not falling, all the infrastructure around YOU and ME is falling, but we can all get some prescription drugs to make it all disappear...yeah...great. Of course let's not forget the electrical grid...oh forgot, your boy is gonna fix that too with a wave of his magic wand.....anyway, back to the regularly scheduled propaganda..... | ||
| Ft_bstrd |
I agree costs are spiraling out of control. We just disagree on how to fix the problem. Deporting 100% of the illegal aliens that are ZERO payors in the system is a start. Capping medical malpractice settlements is another. Providing tax incentives to allow individuals the ability to purchase private insurance thereby increasing competition is another. There are solutions that will work without creating the largest bureaucracy on the planet. The problem is that politicians can't point at the private sector, thump their chest, and brag to their enslaved constituents that they "did something". We can all agree that a single politician is a sack of crap. Why the hell would we trust 535 of them together to aggregately be better than they are individually. Even if you are a died in the wool democrat, you recognize that Barney Frank is an a$$hole. | ||
| M2me |
Deporting 100% of the illegal aliens that are ZERO payors in the system is a start. That's a non-starter and really has nothing to do with health care reform. Stopping the demand for illegal alien labor is the only solution. Right now we have no intention of doing that so that problem will continue. Capping medical malpractice settlements is another. Study after study has shown that that does very little to slow the rise in health care costs. Plus, 36 states already have caps on medical malpractice. Finally, it's a slippery slope to weakening the "people". If we can't sue for damages, we will be left with no recourse. Providing tax incentives to allow individuals the ability to purchase private insurance thereby increasing competition is another. Those incentives are already in place. We can all agree that a single politician is a sack of crap. Why the hell would we trust 535 of them together to aggregately be better than they are individually. I can't agree with that. Not all politicians are crap. Many are honest, hardworking and well meaning. Some of them are Democrats and some are Republicans. We elected them to represent us. The very idea of our country is based on aggregately working together. We've got to get away from this idea of hating government. Government is us. We are the government. We have to stop hating ourselves and start trying to come up with solutions. | ||
| Ft_bstrd |
That's a non-starter and really has nothing to do with health care reform. Stopping the demand for illegal alien labor is the only solution. Right now we have no intention of doing that so that problem will continue. And yet you are willing to not only continue but to expand the drag that illegal immigrants pose on our current health system and WILL impose on the proposed plan. Deal with the problem. Study after study has shown that that does very little to slow the rise in health care costs. Plus, 36 states already have caps on medical malpractice. Finally, it's a slippery slope to weakening the "people". If we can't sue for damages, we will be left with no recourse. The single largest expense for EVERY medical practice is medical malpractice insurance. You can't convince me or any physician that the impact or threat of frivolous law suits has no impact on health costs. What's entertaining is the fact that you are concerned about losing recourse and yet the single payor system will provide no recourse. Those incentives are already in place. Yes, but they could be greatly expanded. Currently, they are pretty pathetic. We elected them to represent us. And they don't. The very idea of our country is based on aggregately working together. We've got to get away from this idea of hating government. Government is us. We are the government. We have to stop hating ourselves and start trying to come up with solutions. No, the very idea of our country, as framed by the founders, is in a nation with the absolutely minimum degree of government involvement in our daily lives. The goal was to create a nation that allowed for the greatest level of self determination. We have strayed dangerously far from that ideal. | ||
| Cityxslicker |
You need to look at this as a forced medical conscription, repeat with me now. DRAFT. Now where are all the liberal hippies lining up to burn their govt health cards? PS There was a carton of H1N1 that got boosted over the weekend locally. 30 vials, ....$3k in loss the clinic reported. So each dose of the H1N1 is $100 ? And you are paying a shot fee of free to $25?... Where is the rest of that money coming from? Wanna know where the rampant health care costs are? How many doses of Tamiflu have been produced/shipped? Its in government programs like that to a exponential factor. | ||
| Ft_bstrd |
We've seen what the "public option" looks like first hand. We enacted TennCare in 1994. It was the prototype created by Hillary and promoted by Gore to be enacted by our State Representatives and Governor. It has been an unmitigated failure. “As a result of this, insurance rates for those who have private coverage were going through the roof,” [Rep. Marsha] Blackburn told a gathering at the conservative Heritage Foundation last week. “There is no example that you can point to that shows where having private insurance in competition with the public option brings the costs down. It leads to exploding costs,” she said. | ||
| Swordsman |
"At least the current bill is a tiny, baby step toward reform. The trouble is it took 60 years to make this little step. We don't have another 60 years to take the next step." 60 years ago we didn't need any reform. insurance was cheap and didn't hesitate to pay out. Heck, if you had multiple insurance policies, they ALL payed out on the same claim without complaint. That was just the way it worked. I would say health insurance has only taken a downturn in the last 20-30 years. (This is all according to my dad and grandfather, I obviously wasn't around for it). ~SM (Message edited by Swordsman on November 11, 2009) | ||
| Liquorwhere |
Just something to lighten the mood a bit   | ||
| Fast1075 |
And now for something completely different. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Y1GJa8f798 | ||
| Blake |
Texas enacted protection against frivolous med lawsuits. On average health ins. cost plumetted by 40%. In CA by 30%. Idiots will ignore such facts. Morons want Uncle-Nanny Sam to look after all. Idiots eager to give away our liberty for nanny. | ||
| Chellem |
Blake - what kind of stuff did they enact? Color me unpopular, but I've always thought the concept of "punitive damages" was a little out there. I mean, NO QUESTION if someone is damaged - legitimately damaged - due to the incompetance of someone in the health care industry, they should be made whole, or as close to whole as possible. ANY future health-related issues should be taken care of. No bills should be due for botched anythings. But multi-million dollar awards for punitive damages? I think it sets up a situation where there is an unwritten agreement that victims are entitled to millions of dollars. People start to view these terrible events as opportunities, and the concept of what's "botched" or "damaged" gets a little blurred. WHAT would happen if "punitive damages" awarded did NOT go to the plaintiff, OR THE PLAINTIFF'S LAWYER, and instead into a fund specifically set up, for say, contributing to hospital and medical procedural improvement, or maybe the money could even go to an "uninsured" fund that could help insure the millions of uninsured I keep hearing about. You could make an argument that someone who unintentionally causes harm to another should be made to make restitution, but should punishment be monetary besides proper restitution? We could possibly lower insurance premiums AND help insure the millions of uninsured. At the same time, frivolous lawsuits would be reduced, since lawyers wouldn't have the opportunity to make ridiculous amounts of money. Hmm. If we just make "punitive damages" ineligible for the lawyer's percentage, might have the same effect. Just thinkin' out loud here. It's late. | ||
| M2me |
Texas enacted protection against frivolous med lawsuits. On average health ins. cost plumetted by 40%. Texas health insurance costs have risen 7 times faster than incomes Texas Health Care Mess | ||
| Blake |
Baloney. I have first hand knowledge. Eight years ago I was paying the exact same fee for the exact same insurance coverage that I now have. Normally, aging from 39 to 47 would about double the fee. Yet mine has fallen to be the same as it was eight years ago. Your sources are obviously full of crap. I am gratified that Texas is handling its own health care issues. •••• the federal government. My state is actually fiscally responsible and we pay zero state income tax. California and other states run into the ground by idiots, morons, and their socialist allies in the state legislature could learn a lesson from Texas. |
