| Author | Message | ||
     Bott |
while having a conversation about the muddership's closing of Buell,it was put to me like this: "Erik Buell sold his soul to the devil (h-d), and now the debt is being called in." Not my words, or opinion, but certainly is a different take on the closing. I just hope "the devil" sees the error in all this. not sure whether I agree with the analogy, but it is an interesting way to look at things. Discuss. | ||
| Jim_williams |
sounds about right to me. | ||
| F_skinner |
It doesn't to me, EB and Buell have always been true to the product they produced. Without HD we may not have had the S2, S3, S1, M2, XBs, 1125s etc. We would not have a Buell community as big as it is now. Think of all the friends you have because of something as simple as owning a Buell. I am not defending HDs decision, it makes me sick. It shows a short sighted attitude and is a knee jerk reaction to a changing world market. I do not think for one minute that EB sold his soul to Harley, I think it was nobel effort to produced the only "World Class" American Sportbike. Frank | ||
| Etennuly |
I totally agree with Frank on this. If not for HD chances are very slim that I would have a Buell. My life has been made different than it would have been because of that deal between them. The way HD has handled this closing program has me irked, because I, like so many, don't want to give up what has become this new and great arm of my life. | ||
| Buellinachinashop |
The way in which Buell was closed, the abruptness, shows how much trouble Harley Davidson is in. Maybe not in terms of bankruptcy, but in trouble with shareholders. | ||
| Mikej |
The Book of Buell is only two chapters in the Book of Harley-Davidson. One chapter is about the Buell namebrand and the bikes and the people, successes and failures all inclusive. The other chapter is about the technology and processes of building a product. The brandname is gone from the corporation, the benefits are integrated into the corporation. One story I would really like to know about is the Franklin Distribution Center, but I suspect that story would not be for public consumption. What the Franklin chapter would say relative to the Buell brand I have no idea that I'm preparred to type or speculate about. This economic roller coaster we're on is possibly about to begin the double-dip, secure your seatbelts and keep your arms and legs inside the car and hope the wheels stay on the rails. I imagine something Buellish will be standing by warming up in the parking lot when this lap is over. | ||
| Bott |
I *think* that's what the un-named person was saying,that hd was certainly needed to bring Buell to where it is(was) now. But she was saying that a baby was sold in order to get here. A baby was put up for adoption in order to have a better life. Then the legal custodians let a dingo eat the baby LoL | ||
| Greenlantern |
It always comes back to the Dingoes! Anti-Canids, ALL OF YOU!  | ||
| Mikej |
There was no adoption attempt, they just flat out fed the baby to the hogs. | ||
| Hughlysses |
One other point that Court has intimated to in several posts made since 15 October: none of us really know whether Erik "sold his soul" or not. There's been lots of speculation about non-competition agreements, ownership of patents, agreements with existing Buell suppliers, etc. but AFAIK nobody here knows squat. We don't know what cards he's still holding yet. Erik didn't fall off a turnip truck last week. I'd bet a guy with a 200-year plan may have not just signed over everything when Harley bought controlling interest in his company. | ||
| Sphere79 |
Hughlysses is correct. It'll likely be awhile before we see exactly what Erik "sold". Other than maybe one or two (appropriately quiet) folks here, no one knows any details and it's all speculation. Harley made it's decision, but it's possible that Erik and a few enterprising folks could secure appropriate licensing / rights to start up production again down the road. Or maybe the dealer rumors about a Buell resurrection could happen, though I think that's doubtful. I find it interesting that Erik didn't renew his employment contract prior to this surprise announcement. Was he leaving to possibly take a bigger role in the racing side of things? I would think that post-HD's decision the first thing he'd want to do is keep the racing going - by whatever means necessary. A post from "Anonymous" here seemed to indicate that someone was working on new Buell Racing parts distribution. Everything will be rumor until the contracts expire and any non-compete issues are worked out. Waiting for that day will be frustrating. I know it's corny, but I've never wanted a Buell tattoo more than ever. There were occasional growing pains but BMC did what it needed to do to keep building and the rug was pulled out by outsiders. They deserve much better (like a new factory) and I still believe it will happen someday. | ||
| Buellinachinashop |
"none of us really know whether Erik "sold his soul" or not." 98% is a lot. | ||
| Sphere79 |
51% or 98%, they weren't going to be seriously pushing / backing Buell's in HD dealerships if they didn't have a stake in the company. As pissed as I am at HD's management, if I was them I wouldn't either. But we don't know what the detailed contract terms were. There may have been something written in specifically if this were to happen. I don't think Harley would continue to sell and service Buell bikes and then allow Erik and a new team to make "Buell's" - but that doesn't mean he can't make "Erik Buell Motorcycles" (might be a stretch) or "Pheonix Motorcycles" with the same principles he's always used. I know if it were to happen it wouldn't be for quite some time either but anything is possible. Maybe after the 7 years is up they'll consider selling the brand back? (Message edited by sphere79 on November 12, 2009) | ||
| F_skinner |
51% or 98%, they weren't going to be putting Buell's into HD dealerships if they didn't have controlling interest. That is incorrect. Buells have been in HD dealerships years before HD owned any part of Buell. | ||
| Midknyte |
Erik didn't fall off a turnip truck last week True dat. And I'd like to see the turnip truck he'd design himself. | ||
| Sphere79 |
Alright I've changed it. HD getting serious about Buell (some may argue they never did) would require they buy in. HD gets to screw buell, not the other way around. I was wrong about the 51% too - it was 49% to start. The S2 came out in '94, are you talking about the race bikes? | ||
| Ferris_von_bueller |
Without HD we may not have had the S2, S3, S1, M2, XBs, 1125s etc. No one is arguing that. You guys are totally missing the point. Selling one's soul to the devil always results in getting what you want but at a cost. What was the gain to EB?.... infusion of cash and resources allowing him a better degree of success in achieving his goals. What was the cost to EB?.... losing control of his company. I don't believe anyone is knocking EB for tying his fortunes to HD. I always thought it was a brilliant move, considering the alternatives. However, things didn't work out. So be it. Turn the page.......... | ||
| F_skinner |
The S2 came out in '94, are you talking about the race bikes? I really need to read Court's and Dave's book again. I remember seeing Buells at NewCastle HD in PA in 1991 or 1992, I remember the RR1000 and a few Westwinds on the show room on the right as you walk in to the dealership. Sphere79, I am pretty sure it is covered in the book and besides it is a good read. The part about how they came to be sold in dealerships is an interesting one. If you want I can send you my copy. As long as you return it!!!  Frank} | ||
| F_skinner |
You guys are totally missing the point. I don't think so but I never met anyone that sold their soul, that I know of, so I cannot comment on if that is what happened or not. I take it to mean this: compromising your values, which to my knowledge EB has not. I guess everyone assigns a different meaning to what that means. I do agree with you, it, like many things in life, is a double edged sword. | ||
| Bikertrash05 |
When someone sells their soul to the devil, indeed one gets what they desire, but only for so long. HD had good intentions and wanted Buell to succeed, something the devil wouldn't care about. Sorry, kinda sticking up for HD, not my intent.  | ||
| Bikertrash05 |
Mikej, what do you want to know about the FDC? | ||
| Anonymous |
"The other chapter is about the technology and processes of building a product. The brandname is gone from the corporation, the benefits are integrated into the corporation. " Other than the current Sportster engine, there's damn little than Harley has learned or incorporated from Buell. Essentially none of the engineering or manufacturing practices of Buell have been adopted by Harley, and the closing is being done in a way that almost ensures they never will be. | ||
| Xl1200r |
The S2 came out in '94, are you talking about the race bikes? The S2 was not Buell's first street bike. And stop it with the Pheonix motorcycles crap. If Erik builds a new brand with that name I won't buy one. | ||
| Court |
The information the "unnamed gal" gave you is inaccurate. Thousands, not hundreds, but THOUSANDS of folks have tried to throw in with Harley-Davidson. Erik Buell succeeded where ALL that went before him failed. >>> I remember seeing Buells at NewCastle HD in PA in 1991 or 1992 You may than Mr. Bill Bomberger, a visonary in his own right, who has been a true Buell enthusiast since the days guys like Devon Bately, Mike Shadduck, Keith Ulicki and Bill were the big part of the dealer network. Bill is a legend. The S2 actually came to life in 1993, first production models were built in 1994. Watch the "History of Buell" video again. Watch Erik's mouth when he talked about "having to win". Would you bet on him or HD's CFO who spent a career at Kraft foods? Decide for yourself. I already know what my next bike will be. | ||
| 20xb12s04 |
Would you care to share? | ||
| Whatever |
 A picture is worth a thousand words... | ||
| Bott |
wait wait wait...just to clear one thing up, no 'information' or even speculation was given to me. This was entirely an opinion , that I found interesting. Nothing more-nothing less. other parts of the same conversation were entirely full of respect,admiration,sympathy and well wishes for Mr. Buell. As I stated, this is NOT my opinion. I have no real opinion on the subject,as I don't have any clue as to any details of the closing. I do however own one of the most powerfull,well handling and street-comfortable bikes ever built in America.  | ||
| Swordsman |
Heh heh... how cool would it be if the head honcho at H-D got ousted over the financial mess and they put Erik in his place? ~SM | ||
| Court |
>>>>I have no real opinion on the subject Hahahaha . . I understand. I . . . on the other hand . . am highly opinionated. I think Erik would do a FAR SUPERIOR job navigating Harley-Davidson right now than ALL of those who have been shown the door and most who remain. Personal opinion . . nothing more. | ||
| Cyclonedon |
I think Erik would do a FAR SUPERIOR job navigating Harley-Davidson right now than ALL of those who have been shown the door and most who remain. I think your right! Harley-Davidson is in big-time trouble with their current leadership! I personally think they are going to fail if somebody doesn't get a hold of the reins soon! time will tell! |
