| Author | Message | ||
     Oldog |
They make the same decisions over and over and expect new results. Insantiy? BlubbbblluuubberrrrrRaaaaaaapppppblubblubblblub they will soon be providing noise makers and flashing lights for their clients---- oh wait they allready do. } | ||
| Dbird29 |
Here comes Rocket's coke bottle argument. They always end the same is right. | ||
| Rocketman |
I've always been fascinated by the indignation of those surprised to find Buell fans on a Buell website. That's all well and good when the topic is questioning why MV is still alive and Buell is still dead. It's also a little unfair to have some Buell die hard fans constantly put down other bikes on a Buell forum when doing so puts down the integrity of another forum user who appears to have a broader mind in such matters. That and the fact this topic was ambling along nicely, in part as an MV discussion. And it's not surprising how topics like these are quickly turned into shit, stirring up the likes of Dumbird with the mere whiff of a Rocket put down. I would expect after a couple of years absence fools would have got wise. Seems not. What is interesting Jeremy, is you never mentioned the MV watches have a 56 jewel Swiss movement and a price tag that reflects the absolute pinnacle of quality at a level for watches that befits that similar to what is expected of the motorcycle itself. I mean, Ebay's full of forty dollar Buell watches. In other words MV want their watch to showcase their motorcycle and not make a profit from the trinket sale. The Buell watch is all about trinket selling. Now about that Jean Richard movement....... Rocket | ||
| Rocketman |
I was never convinced HD acquiring MV had anything to do with sports bikes. For the price HD got a great deal, had the world not slipped into recession. Rocket | ||
| Rocketman |
Here comes Rocket's coke bottle argument. Is that the one where you failed to understand the significance of how great design transcends the great product within the container? Funny you should bring it up because the Coke bottle argument represents MV rather well. What looks great on the outside turns out to be great on the inside too. But don't tell me. You don't like Coke; right. Rocket | ||
| Dentguy |
"I was never convinced HD acquiring MV had anything to do with sports bikes." +1. My understanding is that it was about expanding HD in Europe. I searched and found this. From MCN in July 2008. "According to Ziemer, the acquisition is intended primarily to expand Harley-Davidson, Inc's presence and footprint in Europe, complementing the Harley-Davidson and Buell motorcycle families." | ||
| Buellinachinashop |
MV wasn't about the bikes, it was about Euro networking and dealerships. | ||
| 4cammer |
"MV wasn't about the bikes, it was about Euro networking and dealerships." Then HD should have purchased Ducati. Remember when Proton sold its controlling interest in MV for a Euro? | ||
| Buellinachinashop |
HD has tried to buy Ducati, at least twice that I can remember. | ||
| Court |
>>>>MV wasn't about the bikes, it was about Euro networking and dealerships. Two Questions: 1) How many folks do you think bought that line? 2) How many of the HD execs who made the decision to purchase MV Agusta are still employed by Harley-Davidson. | ||
| Court |
>>>HD has tried to buy Ducati, at least twice that I can remember. Harley-Davidson has NEVER considered purchasing Ducati. Ducati is a pile of debt as TPG found out when they purchased it. There are often funny stories like THIS but they have never held any merit. If Harley-Davidson WANTED to purchase Ducati, a publicly traded company (actually ADR if you are an American) they'd simply buy it and it would be a minor (less than t-shirt revenues) purchase. | ||
| Swordsman |
I thought it was "Ducati tried to get H-D to buy them ?" Big difference there. But I may be remembering that wrong. | ||
| Buellinachinashop |
I believe two years ago there was talks of HD looking into Ducati's purchase. EDIT: http://thekneeslider.com/archives/2007/06/14/ducati-considering-harley-davidson-merger/ This was from June of 07, I don;t know how involved it actually got. (Message edited by Buellinachinashop on November 09, 2009) | ||
| Buellinachinashop |
">>>>MV wasn't about the bikes, it was about Euro networking and dealerships. Two Questions: 1) How many folks do you think bought that line? 2) How many of the HD execs who made the decision to purchase MV Agusta are still employed by Harley-Davidson. 1) Zeimer did. That's almost exactly the reason why he said they bought them. "According to Ziemer, the acquisition is intended primarily to expand Harley-Davidson, Inc's presence and footprint in Europe, complementing the Harley-Davidson and Buell motorcycle families. Retail sales of Harley-Davidson motorcycles have grown at a double-digit rate in Europe in each of the last three years, as the Company has increased its strategic focus on global markets." 2) Nobody said it was a good purchase. How many are still around from when they bought Buell? | ||
| Midknyte |
Ducati is a pile of debt as TPG found out when they purchased it. How is that Ducati floats? Are the owners, as they come along, just more charitable and desirous? Who has more bikes on pavement (i.e. Sold) - Buell or Ducati? | ||
| Swordsman |
Just because you sell more bikes doesn't make you more profitable. Just sayin'... there's a lot under the hood to consider. ~SM | ||
| Spatten1 |
Ducati and MV have done something Buell has not- Created a world-wide super high-end brand image that makes people salivate and want to throw away their life savings. That is worth money to an investor. | ||
| Buellinachinashop |
Ducati is actually larger in size than Buell, they have over 1000 employees. But somehow they still keep that "small family owned", handcrafted image. I can't remember off hand how many bikes per day they build, I know MV is less than a half dozen. | ||
| Xl1200r |
Spatten - I think that comes from their history and price tag more than anything else. | ||
| Spatten1 |
I think that comes from their history and price tag more than anything else. Maybe so, Harley has pulled off the same feat. | ||
| Court |
Ducati is MUCH larger than Buell. There were a host of 7-figure folks who are no longer employed at HD following the rediculous MV Agusta acquisition. They got . . . as we used to say . . ."snookered". Interesting that Mr. Olin, the new CFO (who left to pursue "other interests") came from Kraft and today Kraft makes a bold hostile takeover attempt that was rejected by Cadbury . . . This stuff is getting fun . . . . (Message edited by court on November 09, 2009) | ||
| Fast1075 |
Cadbury??? oh no....he tried to screw the chocolate bunny??? Oh....Spatten1 has hit the proverbial nail on the head with his previous post. Perfect case of a "created market"..... (Message edited by fast1075 on November 09, 2009) | ||
| Sayitaintso |
The big corporate CEO world is quite the incetuous group aren't they. Thats part of the reason CEO compensation is out of line with corporate results. The "rub my back now and I'll rub yours when the time comes". It would be VERY interesting to see a graphic of the ties between members of various Boards of Directors of fortune 500 companies. You know, x is on y's BOD; and y is on x's BOD. | ||
| 4cammer |
New F4 looks nice... http://www.autoblog.com/2009/11/09/2010-mv-agusta- f4-superbike/ | ||
| Spatten1 |
Perfect case of a "created market" Marketing- making people think they need things that they just want. The big corporate CEO world is quite the incetuous group aren't they. The big lie is that they are paid for performance. Many of them are are paid well because they sit on the board of a company whose exec sits on his pay committee. Very incestious indeed. Grasso had his pay committee by the gonads, plenty of back scratching going in both directions. Legal, yes; ethical, NO. | ||
| Rocketman |
How come if you knew / know so much Court, you didn't save HD from falling? Perhaps had you done so there'd still be a Buell today and MV would never had entered the equation. Rocket | ||
| Buellinachinashop |
he's "just a construction worker". | ||
| Midknyte |
so was, oh, nevermind... | ||
| Imonabuss |
Well, the last investor before H-D was Proton, and they sold it for $1. When asked how they felt about H-D buying it later for $150 million, they said, "We are happy that we sold it for $1". Now it's back on the market again, with no takers yet. I think Ducati is far further along the value curve of investors wanting to throw money, Spatten, and it pales in comparison to H-D itself. So probably the number of investors attracted may be a bit smaller than some might think. | ||
| Ducxl |
sometimes passion does prevail over profit |
