| Author | Message | ||
     Ulykan |
Tradition Is Not A Business Model: MotoCzysz * * * This article comes from AsphaltandRubber.com * * * Today I want to broach the subject of what it means to be not only a motorcycle startup, but what it means to be an American motorcycle startup.*For a majority of our readers, the concept of American motorcycling is something that we have understood since our days as children. No matter how you came to this industry/sport/lifestyle, as a reader of A&R you have no doubt a strong personal compass of what is means to be an American motorcyclist, and it is something that you touch and understand on a daily basis. The business side of this understanding is less straight-forward though. It is one thing to identify personally with what makes an American motorcycle, but it is a very different exercise to build a product that evokes that same emotion to the mass consumer. This concept becomes even more relevant today, as the motorcycle industry is still recovering from the news of Buell’s closure and Harley-Davidson’s drastic measures to stay afloat. With no precognition of this impending news, I headed to Portland, Oregon to talked to Michael Czysz, CEO of auto-biographically named MotoCzsyz.*Czysz’s journey presents a unique story about a company that has twice attempted to create an American-bred sportbike, and as such is the appropriate company in which to frame our topic about what it means to be an American motorcycle startup. It’s impossible to start a discussion about American sportbikes without first involving Buell Motorcycles. This fact becomes even more topical with the recent news of Buell’s closure, and Harley’s circling of the wagons around the Harley-Davidson brand; these actions perfectly portray everything that has been broken in the American sportbike scene, and larger American motorcycle genre. In it’s 26 years of existence, Buell for all intents and purposes, has been the only name in town when it came to American sportbike manufacturing. While some attempts have come and gone, in recent news we’ve seen companies like Roehr and Fischer begin to ship units, Buell has remained the only established manufacturer on American soil. Since it’s a subsidiary of Harley-Davidson, Inc., Buell shares many problems with its parent company. The most notable problem stemming from this relationship would be the notion that American sportbikes must be derivatives of American cruisers. Buell, until recently, used modified air-cooled Sportster motors, which were heavier and less powerful than comparable water-cooled power-plants.*The result was less than successful. While Buell’s motorcycles were fun to ride on the street, they could not compare to the standards that were being set by both the Japanese and European manufacturers. Why other companies chose to follow the Buell example, sourcing motors that were intended for heavy cruisers, is beyond this writer’s comprehension, but whatever the rational may be, the result was a vacuum of consumer desire for a true sportbike from an American manufacturer. One such person who shared that desire was Michael Czysz. MotoCzysz is really more of a restart than a startup.*The company’s first iteration for an American spotbike was Czysz’s MotoGP contender: the 990cc C1. Incorporating numerous motor and chassis innovations, the C1 broke away from the notion that an American sportbike should trace it roots back to the popular American cruiser scene. What looked to be a promising entry into the sportbike market, the C1was a victim of timing: breaking cover just as MotoGP regulations moved from the tire-shredding 990cc displacement to the “safer” 800cc formula. The displacement switch was a considerable blow to MotoCzysz, which had substantial time, money, and effort tied into their 990cc power-plant, and it seemed for a moment that this would be the last we’d hear from the Portland-based company. For Czysz, an effort to build an American sportbike meant a departure from the Buell model, and instead he grounded his company’s success in the performance of its product. This is perhaps partially due to Czysz being “a racer’s racer” and consummate competitor, but it also takes root in the fact that the American sportbike scene had remained broken for so long, and clearly wasn’t thriving in the competitive marketplace because of its lack of product parity. Also described as a “racer’s racer”, Erik Buell, and his baby Buell Motorcycles, never got a fair shake in the industry. The most recent actions by Harley-Davidson, Inc. show the company’s true colors of being built around a single brand. Despite the fact that over the course of its business operations it decided to expand the range of brands under the HD umbrella, acquiring both Buell and MV Agusta (you could throw Cagiva into this argument as well), Harley-Davidson, Inc,’s real bread winner brand has always been Harley-Davidson line of cruiser motorcycles. Instead of establishing its other brands to stand on their own two feet, Harley-Davidson, Inc. cobbled its acquisitions to always be second priority to the HD brand. The Harley-Davidson roots permeated into Buell’s distribution, marketing, and cultural aspirations, and also affected choices on the bike’s design. The result was a product that probably helped boost the value of the Harley-Davidson brand (and bottom-line), but also brought about the “cruiserfication” of Buell’s sportbike aspirations. For many, including Czysz, this was an affront to what it meant to build a performance motorcycle, and what it meant to pawn off that creation as being “American”: “We don’t want to put the flag and all that in front of the product, the product needs to speak for itself. The fact that it was American made would be awesome and an asset to meet all the goals, but you need to make a product that can compete on all the levels with all the products that are out there. If that isn’t being done, then companies tend to compensate…overly compensate with the nationalism.” When one talks about marketing, and let’s be honest here…putting an American flag or “Made in the USA” sticker on a product is an exercise in marketing, what we’re talking about is engaging a customer with a product, creating a bond with them and their purchase decision. Rarely can this goal be accomplished with broad brush-strokes, and this is where American motorcycle companies get into trouble. Drawing on themes of Americana, and what motorcycling represented for one generation, is not a strategy that travels well as time passes on. A third generation motorcyclist, Czysz, like many others, wonders how he and future generations are supposed to find appeal in the Milwaukee brand. Shrugging at first, Michael laments: “I dunno…I mean, I think it’s pretty self-evident. There is almost no greater company in the United States than Harley-Davidson, I just wish they had the kind of products that drew me in and my young sons, and that they would leverage ability to be a real force, rather than just being a nostalgic company. We deserve more. They should respect the brand more.” When you look at the history of motorcycling in the United States, and localize the icons that have stood out prominently, you get a very flat perspective of our riding culture. We find images of Peter*Fonda and Dennis Hopper from Easy Rider, the Hells Angels, and James Dean: icons of rebellion from an older generation. Quite simply, these images don’t resonate the same way with the younger mass of riders. That’s not to say that these icons have lost their meaning over time, but for an increasingly larger proportion of motorcyclists, these figures become less pertinent to the motorcyclists identity. No greater proof of this can be found, than the ever increasing average and median age of Harley-Davidson riders. Harley-Davidson is a company that cannot be removed from these cultural images, so when the 20 year-olds from the 1960’s look for a way to express their individuality, these are the images they rely on, and Harley-Davidson is a company they are drawn towards. But what about our current generation of 20 year old rebels? By and larger, the chopper movement has been replaced by the sportbike market (just as the hot-rod scene, has given way to the tuner scene…coincidence?). For American youth (and the young at heart), high-octane, high-performance vehicles have been an anchor of rebellious expressionism.*This is a phenomenon that does not exist with anywhere near the same magnitude in other cultures. It is this vein that an American sportbike company needs to resonate with its riders. For company’s like MotoCzysz, this means that a renewed hyper-vigilence of how their product performs compared to the competition becomes the single largest factor in determining its success, while there must be a de-emphasis of where that product is designed and produced. “We’re the largest market in the world for high-performance bikes, and Japan and Italy are sitting down, and they’re thinking about their next bike. They’re heavily considering what they will sell in the American market. If you want to buy a bike that was made in America, you should be able to buy a high-performance bike that’s made here.” …and you know, I keep looking up and I’m bummed and disappointed on a world level about*what we [Americans] have done.” What I am arguing here is not the creation of a taboo for nationalistic pride, but instead an awareness that when products are marketed purely on geography, it cheapens not only that product, but the industry as a whole. In many ways the 1125R/CR could have been Buell’s saving grace. It marked the company’s willingness to get serious about its performance offering, sourcing a liquid-cooled Rotax motor instead of relying once again on the Harley’s Sportster power-plant. However, it also showed Buell/Harley’s continued willingness to abuse America, the brand. Talking about how he avoids a similar mistake, Czysz can’t help share the frustration that many Americans felt as they watched Buell finally race its first legitimate sportbike offering against 600cc sportbikes and under-classed Italian v-twins. “You make sure that if your goal is performance then you sell a performance bike. You don’t just build yourself up on it being a patronage of being that the bike is American, it needs to eventually have performance. Now one of the American companies just won a Championship this year, but they did it with virtually twice the displacement as everybody else. They can say, ‘well it has less cylinders’. But yeah, we already have that formula. That formula has been running around for decades, and no body got twice the displacement.” In what should have been a step-forward for American sportbiking, the reality was a bitter-taste was created as racing enthusiasts speculated as to whether there was some self-dealing going-on in the AMA with the largest American motorcycle manufacturer. Instead of innovating around a problem, once again we see the American motorcycle industry’s inflexibility to change, choosing instead to race in a stacked competition. This series or articles is of course an examination of the fringe efforts by some startups to bring innovation to motorcycling. Talking about the opportunities available now in the motorcycle industry, Czysz states that there is change in the air. “It is truly ironic to people outside of the industry…these [motorcyclists] are supposed to be the guys that are the free-thinkers, the easy spirits, and the whatever, but the reality is they’re actually quite reluctant, and extremely pessimistic as a whole. And for the most part, a small fringe group wants to see change and embrace it, but the large percentage is content with where we were or where we’ve been, and assumes that any big innovation is going to ruin what they have or takeaway from what they have. There is a surprising amount of reluctancy to try new innovation and technology. I guess a part of that is there’s enough history where people have said that’s what they can do, and haven’t delivered, so I think at some point its self preservation. …It is not the easiest industry to jump in, it’s easier than the car industry, but it’s still difficult. However that being said, both of these industries are easier to jump into now than they were 36 months ago. Now they expect innovation to from entrepreneurial startups, and not the large giants that have been slothing around for the past 30 years.” I won’t belabor any further the innovation surrounding the electric motorcycle, but MotoCzysz is an example of a company in the industry that was able shift its focus and become an early adopter of what appears to be the next generation of motorcycling. Moving from his C1 project, a cryptic message appeared on the MotoCzysz website early in 2009: “It became very apparent to me that I was working to catch up in an era coming to an end – maybe I should set off and try to lead in an era arriving” -MC What we would all learn later is that Czysz et al were planning on making the switch to electric drive motorcycles, and would be swapping their MotoGP effort for a day of racing in the inaugural TTXGP at the 2009 Isle of Man TT. Michael Czysz, for better or worse, is the obvious driving force in his company. We could devote perhaps an entire article discussing the criticism and critiques that his doubters, competitors, and partners have levied against him, but that discussion would conversely have to end with an honest assessment of what it means to be an entrepreneur. Excluding serial-entrepreneurs from the discussion, entrepreneurship often starts with a single vision/goal/dream. What separates successful entrepreneurs from others who fail, is the ability to persevere, break through walls, and overcome adversity. More often than not, you’ll find that entrepreneurs have thick skin, strong wills, and are obsessive about achieving their goals. Czysz is a tremendous example of these characteristics. For him, there is a strong desire to shape the future of the motorcycle industry. “For me, there could be no greater accomplishment, at all, than to create, or to be involved, or to participate, or to somehow help in the American motorcycle scene. That is my goal, and I’ve jeopardized literally everything that I have…you would be surprised to find out what I was willing to do…sheer lunacy. To be honest, it was just stupid. But at some point its kind of like, you know…I’m quite confident we have one life on this Earth, and unfortunately motorcycles have been a huge part of my life, as it was my father’s, my grandfather’s, and my great-grandparent’s.” For someone like Czysz who is in the industry to make his mark, the ability to switch gears and embrace a new idea is infinitely more attainable than it would be at company that is trying to maintain market share and revenue. The latter is essentially fancy wording for maintaining the status-quo, while the prior is interested finding a foothold and leveraging it. This is the fundamental nature of startups vs. entrenched corporations, so it should come with little surprise that this past summer we saw MotoCzysz at the first ever TTXGP. While not the best outing for MotoCzysz (Michael would describe it as: “Awful..it couldn’t have been worse”), the event showcased three American companies that were willing to take on this new challenge of electric motorcycles. With a tremendous amount of innovation coming out of these companies, MotoCzysz in particular, the American motorcycle industry has the opportunity to have new life breathed into it. Instead of being known for its blind attachment to nostalgic designs, the new motorcycle industry lead by these startups has to chance to be an industry leader. Perhaps even more important, American motorcycles have an opportunity to be revered as the most advanced, the most innovative, and in the performance category: the fastest. Because of these factors, it makes the next coming year a very pivotal and exciting time to be a part of the American motorcycle industry, and to see how the American sportbike gets redefined in the world market. http://www.tlzone.net/forums/press-room/115998-tra dition-not-business-model-motoczysz.html | ||
| Indy_bueller |
I think he makes some good points. I say that knowing full well that some of the folks here will want to rip it apart because of the "displacement" comment. In my opinion, the American sport bike community simply will not accept a manufacturer that doesn't beat the Japanese at their own game. By that I mean 600cc four cylinders against Japanese 600cc four cylinders, etc. We can complain, we can point out facts until we are blue in the face. It won't matter. You guys know me, and you know I don't bash Buell. I love V-Twins, and I love Buells. But facts are facts. | ||
| Toomanyhobbies |
I think I lose a lot of respect for Czysz from this article. It is fine to criticize the business model, but it is another thing to criticize individuals and make take up the whole "double the displacement" argument. Everyone knows that is crap. All the big companies have 1000cc+ bikes they just don't handle as well because they are built for top-end. Buell built a large displacement bike that excels in low to mid range and handles great. Buell might have never built their own powerplant, but at least sh*t doesn't blow up every time they go around a track!!! (yeah I said it.) I say let the designs do the talking. A little less lip flapping until you bring home a championship and bring riders home without roasted chestnuts. | ||
| Ferris_von_bueller |
Buell was a motorcycle manufacturer. MotoCzysz is a hobby for a man with a lot of expendable income. Last time I checked, he had not mass produced or sold anything. Mr. Czysz can spend his money anyway he sees fit. Buell had to answer to HD and the marketplace. Does Mr. Czysz really believe Erik Buell would have designed and built a bike around a Sportster motor if given a choice? Buell had constraints and made due with what was available. Believe it or not, this is how most companies operate. Electric bikes are not ready for prime-time. The battery tech is not up to speed. Until someone can produce an electric bike on par with traditional motorcycles in all the aspects that count and can recharge the battery in minutes they shall remain a novelty. | ||
| Ft_bstrd |
I agree completely with his point that the bike should be the best on it's own and coincidentally be "American Built". The same holds true for the American auto industry. HD has become it's own anachronism. They can't progress (in design) because the average HD buyer won't buy their products if they do progress. The V-Rod is a great bike, but it sits on the floor unsold. The sales folks hate them. I've found that I am as passionate about telling the V-Rod story to cruiser guys as I am about telling the Buell story. You don't understand what you are looking at just by looking at it. When you know how the bike came about and where the power plant came from, you gain a different respect for the motorcycle. What I find interesting is how little many HD buyers care about actual performance. If performance is of interest, it seems only to be of interest in the arena of pipes for sound or Screaming Eagle kits. Most don't even know how much HP/TQ gains a Screaming Eagle kit will bring. They just know they are supposed to want one. It's really bizarre. I want Buell (or whatever American company emerges) to compete head to head with the best the world has to offer. I do NOT agree though that this means creating yet another IL4 600 or 1000cc bike with an American label. We could source an entire bike from manufacturers that Suzuki uses and assemble a bike in Korea, but it doesn't make it an American bike. If you want to match engine designs, limit peak HP. Displacement won't matter. I don't find cookie cutter Big Four racing the least bit interesting. | ||
| Rick_a |
So, basically, he failed at marketing and producing this competitive model, so is now going to produce electric motorcycles...and this is somehow a triumph? | ||
| Buellinachinashop |
If Harley would offer him money to sell the company, I'd be my left nut he'd do it. There's dreams then there's dreams that can only be lived through huge corporate help. Czyz is a modern day Buell. If you read this quote, it could be EB... "For me, there could be no greater accomplishment, at all, than to create, or to be involved, or to participate, or to somehow help in the American motorcycle scene. That is my goal, and I’ve jeopardized literally everything that I have…you would be surprised to find out what I was willing to do…sheer lunacy. To be honest, it was just stupid." | ||
| Koz5150 |
I agree with this article so much. In the 1098 vs 1125 thread that was severly beat to death right before the axe dropped on Buell these were the exact points I was arguing 1. America is the largest market for 600's and liter bikes 2. The customers care a lot more about performance then a flag on the windscreen 3. the Buell victory in the race series did not resonate with the consumers of sportbikes If MotoCzysz can put together a good prooduct with an I4 engine it would be on my short list for my next bike purchase. | ||
| Teddagreek |
why not a 600cc V-4.... Aprilia's New RSV4r V-4 is 999.6cc's... | ||
| Ft_bstrd |
Zactly my point in another thread. I'd love to see Buell move to both a 600cc and 1000cc V-4. I'd love to see that engine combination. | ||
| 4cammer |
How did MotoCzysz do at the TT? | ||
| Ceejay |
so why not just by a yamaha? 1. Data please? 2. Aren't you a customer? 3. maybe, but has anyone noted that the Buell were down what, over 10mph on top speed vs. every other bike on the grid in both Daytona Sportbike, and Superbike(as well the reason that they called thier classes supersport, superbike, and sportbike) yet in the sportbike cat won the title, and in the superbike was in the top ten in superpole and race. We could go on, back and forth, but as I see it Mr. Czysz had a goal-MotoGP. He wasn't able to get a bike on the grid, and I doubt he'll ever get a bike on a production based grid either. Does that belittle his accomplishments-no. Regardless of what he's done or what he's trying to do I don't see how he's garnered any respect in comparison to a person who's put his name on over 125,000 bikes, actaully raced in series', and started (and possibly finished) a company based solely for the purpose of racing and winning. Then to go and belittle it based on an idea which is fostered by those unwilling to think about the idea that a bike is a dynamic system that is function of it's parts and not an addition of them is somewhat rediculous. | ||
| 46champ |
Am I the only one who is getting less enchanted by Michael Czysz with every statement I read. | ||
| Indy_bueller |
No Champ, you're not. While some of what that article says made sense, I found most of his statements insulting. Talks a big game for someone that never shipped a completed motorcycle to a customer. At least as far as I know. | ||
| Cityxslicker |
Cruiser ?  Not if you ask the guys at H-D. I will give you styled after classic lines and steeped with a nod to past generations; but it is definitely not a cruiser. And I didnt see Erik using any of the FL/FX 80/88/96/103/110cc motors that the cruisers did depoloy. | ||
| Buellinachinashop |
"How did MotoCzysz do at the TT?" If I remeber correctly, from Discovery HD, he had technical problems and either didn't finish or he finished poorly. It was his electric bike that competed. | ||
| Fast1075 |
Don't laugh at electric....Google KillaCycle...that is a pretty quick dragbike...and huge improvements are being made right now...it will be truly fast when they are done...it is just a matter of time before the battery thing is sorted for truly useable electric bikes. | ||
| Koz5150 |
Regardless of what he's done or what he's trying to do I don't see how he's garnered any respect in comparison to a person who's put his name on over 125,000 bikes, actaully raced in series', and started (and possibly finished) a company based solely for the purpose of racing and winning. I have to disagree with that statement. As much as I love my M2, Buell bikes have never seemed to me to be purposely built for racing. They have always seemed like streetbikes that have been adapted to race or asked for changes in the rules to be able to compete with race bikes with smaller engine displacements. That in no way takes away from the great technology utilized and developed by Buell but a race bike is only as good as it's weakest link and when you tell someone your engine needs to be 1125 cc's to run with a competitors 600cc I4 or 1000cc twin, you have a weak link. Magazines called it out and other sportbike riders called it out. Buell made a good and at times great streetbike, but the racing part just never really worked for me or the majority of American sportbike consumers. Now throw in the whole Buell being sold using a HD sales model and you really screw things up. Buell branding talks all about the privateer racer and the rider coming first. Then you walk into the dealership and find $65 hand grips (only one type available), $75 dollar sweatshirts, and little to no non HD aftermarket products available in the store. Those products that are available are overpriced and easily purchased from other retailers local or online for a cheaper price. That doesn't work either. Think the average sportbike consumer cares about accumulating "Chrome bucks" or wearing a pin on his jacket from every location he has riden? The dealership offers 1 kind of Buell riding pants for $300 or 10 different types of fringed a$$less chaps. No wonder they guy walks across the street and buys his gear at the Yamaha store where they sell Field Gear, Icon, and Joe Rocket for half the price. Erik Buell is a GREAT motorcycle builder, but the marketing model for this company has been an underfunded and misguided failure. Buell will go down in history as a chapter in the American Motorcycle story, but with better direction, it could have stayed alive and wrote it's own novel. | ||
| Scott_in_nh |
I pretty much agree with Koz. I bought/love my S3 because it is a GREAT streetbike. I am a motorsports fan to the extent that I come from a (4-wheel) racing family, don't watch any stick and ball sports at all, but will watch most any kind of racing including boats, airplanes, motorcycles, cars, etc. so yes, I enjoyed the high level of competition seen in Daytona Sport Bikes and having watched various types of sports car racing over the years, I understand that displacement is not the only way to have fair and competitive racing. I also understand how many don't get it/understand it and see the displacement advantage as unfair. Erik has been saying for years that he builds streetbikes, even the 1125 was correctly advertised as being designed from the rider down. That is not how you design a racebike. Mr. Czysz and Erik both started out designing a pure racebike and both had the poor luck of bad timing of rule changes that made their bikes moot before development could be finished. From there fate took Erik in the direction of a HD powered streetbike and so far, fate is taking Mr. Czysz in the direction of electric motorcycles. Frankly when we had strong rumors of a water-cooled Buell in the pipeline, I was hoping that HD/Buell had been working with MotoCzysz to further develop his unique motor and put it in a streetbike for a truly unique, truly American sportbike. It is not a slam against Rotax or 1125 owners/fans here, I may buy one someday - I would buy one today if it fit in the budget, but it is not what I was hoping for. | ||
| Ft_bstrd |
Hasn't that been the issue all along? What makes a great race bike makes a poor street bike. What makes a great street bike makes a poor race bike. It's only in motorcycles that you take a bike off the showroom floor and make a few modifications for race use. No one is racing their off the floor Camry, Taurus, or Impala. No one is taking their Formula One car down to the grocery store. I don't think the XB line is any less of a "race bike" than the SV. Conversely, why should the S3, M2, or S1 be considered any more of a "race bike" than a Monster, Hornet, or KZ1000? They are upright standards. Of course they aren't "race bikes". I see those models filling the niche that is now inhabited by the XR1200. Once the 1125 platform was introduced, the Buell offerings were much closer to the "racer" category off the floor. The only difference was the inclusion of a full fairing. | ||
| Scott_in_nh |
Once the 1125 platform was introduced, the Buell offerings were much closer to the "racer" category off the floor. "Closer" is a relative statement. The Japanese manufacturers design race bikes keeping in mind that they will have to offer street legal versions. Buell to date, including the 1125, designed street bikes that have, to varying degrees with varying success, been used for racing. It will always be an uphill battle for the average race viewer to understand that Buell was racing a streetbike against japanese race bikes that happen to be street legal. IMO Erik Buell stands a much better chance now of designing a no excuse race bike made street legal then he ever had while working for HD (assuming that is what he wants to do). | ||
| Ft_bstrd |
What would the 1125 need that it doesn't have to he considered a "race bike"? | ||
| Edgydrifter |
IMO, Buells (up until the 1125R, at least) weren't sportbikes, they were bikes meant to be ridden sportingly. And that is perfect for me, as I've never had any desire to take my Uly to the track but I sure do like to hit the twisties or carve through traffic. On the matter of Mr. Czysz: I live in PDX and I've seen his operation, and I agree with Ferris--he's not a manufacturer, he's a motorcycle enthusiast with the means to support an expensive hobby. Let's just say MotoCzysz didn't start in a barn. I applaud his designs and support his entries into competitions like the TT, but until he starts rolling bikes off a production line and into our garages he will be little more than a privateer team director with a funny name. | ||
| Buellinachinashop |
"What would the 1125 need that it doesn't have to he considered a "race bike"? Full fairing, Ohlins and a chain. | ||
| Gregtonn |
"Full fairing, Ohlins and a chain." With the exception of the Ohlins all those are available from Buell. G | ||
| Scott_in_nh |
What would the 1125 need that it doesn't have to he considered a "race bike"? It would need to be inarguably considered as a viable alternative to the purchase of a Japanese liter race replicas or the Ducati 1098/1198. That is inarguably whether you are a fan of Buell or not, that is inarguably by the moto-press, that is inarguably by the competition. That is all around performance that is inarguably on par because it has been proven in tests such as Master Bike and on the track against said liter bikes. Now that wouldn't sell me the bike because I am not that interested in a race replica, but it would have sold more bikes than a promotion like "BOB" ever dreamed of. (Message edited by scott_in_nh on October 23, 2009) | ||
| Aeholton |
One thing I've learned in life (and especially on this forum): Nothing is "inarguable". | ||
| Scott_in_nh |
I'll agree with especially on this forum  (Message edited by scott_in_nh on October 23, 2009) | ||
| Ft_bstrd |
It would need to be inarguably considered as a viable alternative to the purchase of a Japanese liter race replicas or the Ducati 1098/1198. Who are fans of Japanese liter race replicas or Ducati 1090/1198? That is inarguably whether you are a fan of Buell or not, that is inarguably by the moto-press, that is inarguably by the competition. Who are not fans of anything NOT what they are used to and what they are in favor of? That is all around performance that is inarguably on par because it has been proven in tests such as Master Bike and on the track against said liter bikes. That isn't possible unless you produce an IL4, V4 or 1200cc Twin? None of this was really your point, was it? I'm asking what specific parts list is included on an off the floor 600/1000cc "race bike" that is not included on an 1125R "street only bike". Just because fans of one particular brand state that your bike isn't a "real sport bike/race bike", it doesn't make it so. I think it hilarious that one would agree with a so called "mover and shaker" of the motorcycle world who's creation hasn't raced on the track against a SINGLE other bike. Who's bike is the "real" race bike, and who's isn't. | ||
| Scott_in_nh |
Never mind Fat, but if you get the chance, why not ask Jeremy McWilliams which bike was the real racebike? Since he has ridden both, I think he is the only one qualified to answer the question... |
