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Buell Forum » Quick Board » Archives » Archive through October 17, 2009 » HD New Business Strategy- Buell discontinued « Previous Next »

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Archive through October 15, 2009Sayitaintso30 1 10-15-09  09:36 am
         

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Xl1200r
Posted on Thursday, October 15, 2009 - 09:37 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)
HD Doesn't OWN Buell. One can only assume they pulled backing and Erik was forced to close his doors without those HD dollars we all complained about for so long.

Buell operated on it's own capital - HD wasn't just throwing cash at Buell to build bikes, they built them off Buell's profits.

Something about this just doesn't smell right. Buell is as on top as they've ever been - SOMEONE has to be interested.
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Pkforbes87
Posted on Thursday, October 15, 2009 - 09:37 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)
I believe Harley owned 51% of the company, Erik Buell owning the remainder. Not positive of the details but I know Buell wasn't owned entirely by HD.
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Sayitaintso
Posted on Thursday, October 15, 2009 - 09:41 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)
I believe Harley owned 51% of the company, Erik Buell owning the remainder. Not positive of the details but I know Buell wasn't owned entirely by HD.


I dont know, but when it comes to decision making 51% is as good as 100%.
It just doesn't make sense from a busniess standpoint. Even if they sold for only $1, it would be $1 more than what they are getting by discontinuing. There must be another piece of the puzzle.

(Message edited by sayitaintso on October 15, 2009)
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Buellinachinashop
Posted on Thursday, October 15, 2009 - 09:42 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)
I thought it was 98% owned by Harley.

I could have swore I read something by Court, that if HD sold the company, EB got to keep his name though.
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Hughlysses
Posted on Thursday, October 15, 2009 - 09:42 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)
New post by Court this morning- he's saying there's a "silver lining" in this story somewhere:

http://www.badweatherbikers.com/cgibin/discus/show .cgi?tpc=17&post=1604816#POST1604816
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Jaimec
Posted on Thursday, October 15, 2009 - 09:43 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)
Harley owned 99% of the company.
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Rocketsprink
Posted on Thursday, October 15, 2009 - 09:45 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)
Harley owns 98% from the info on the plaque on the wall at the National Motorcycle Museum.
What a shame. Stupid is as stupid does. And it don't get no stupider than H-D.
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Samiam
Posted on Thursday, October 15, 2009 - 09:46 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)
http://www.highbeam.com/doc/1P2-6603221.html

Harley-Davidson Inc. said Friday it has bought the half of Buell Motorcycle Co. it didn't already own and will actively market the brand's sport bikes in Europe.

Harley had owned 49% of East Troy-based Buell and handled its marketing and distribution. The motorcycle maker said it now has acquired nearly all of Buell's stock, although founder Erik Buell retains about a 2% stake.

Granted that is from a news article in 1998, but I doubt much has changed on ownership since then...
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Slaughter
Posted on Thursday, October 15, 2009 - 09:51 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)
The whole "discontinue" statement has got me thinking that we're not done with this yet.

Heck, there's gonna be more speculation here than there is on Badweb before each new model year.

It's wait-and-see now... and none of us are good at waiting.
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Brettx1
Posted on Thursday, October 15, 2009 - 09:51 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)
I'm with Phil on this one. For years I've wanted Buell to break away from HD. I never liked having to go to their dealership (aside from Hal's) for service and parts, there never seemed to be an enthusiast working behind the counter,on the floor, or in the service bay, just people trained in buell speak. It's my hope that Erik won't throw in the towel, Maybe he'll just have to get creative again, like he did to get his company going in the first place. No matter what, I've met far to many good people riding these bikes to shake my loyalty, Buell forever!!!
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Chellem
Posted on Thursday, October 15, 2009 - 09:56 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)
I thought that same thing. They're selling MV Agusta, but not Buell?

FOR THE RECORD, we as Buell dealers will still be doing warranty work, can still get parts, and we can still support the product as best we can.

There's still a lot of details to work through, both at the corporate level and here at the dealership level.

I know we, and a lot of other dealers, still have bikes on the floor. Might be a good time to pick up a Buell or two. :P

Sorry, inappropriate gallows humor is my defense mechanism.
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Dbird29
Posted on Thursday, October 15, 2009 - 09:57 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)
RIP Indian
RIP Buell
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Koz5150
Posted on Thursday, October 15, 2009 - 09:58 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)
Making the semi-yearly pilgrimage to the Slimey Crud Run on my trusty M2 just became a little more important today.
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Koz5150
Posted on Thursday, October 15, 2009 - 09:59 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)
Don't forget we always have American Sportbike for parts also!
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Andymnelson
Posted on Thursday, October 15, 2009 - 11:06 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)
I feel like someone just kicked me in the nuts. Seriously, I feel sick.

I had planned to buy a new Buell this past summer, the economy sucked bad enough that I could not afford to- put it off until this coming summer. Was loving the Uly, but took a test ride on a CR and fell in love (with it's performance, not it's looks : p ). I had always said that I'll own a Harley some day...but not until I'm old. We'll see how this shakes out, but if HD does not handle themselves well I will own a different bike in the future. The best I can do is vote with my dollars, there's at last 2 bike sales from their bottom line.

I hope Erik has a plan! And I certainly wish him and Elves all the best- you made me 2 of the greatest bikes I have ever ridden!
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Milar
Posted on Thursday, October 15, 2009 - 11:17 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)
I suspect HD decided to discontinue Buell because they intend to develop a line of HD branded sportbikes. Move the Helicon and Buell motors to the XR1200 and maybe the rumored Cafe Racer.

If they are lucky Erik will stay and help develop them.

M
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Sayitaintso
Posted on Thursday, October 15, 2009 - 11:27 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)
I suspect HD decided to discontinue Buell because they intend to develop a line of HD branded sportbikes. Move the Helicon and Buell motors to the XR1200 and maybe the rumored Cafe Racer.

That makes sense from a business standpoint....... even could be worth the write-off they have to take from the discontinuation of Buell. (But then remember I'm an accountant and am only looking at it from a financial statement viewpoint.)


Wonder how bad it would piss off the HD traditionalists.

(Message edited by sayitaintso on October 15, 2009)
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Vanvideo
Posted on Thursday, October 15, 2009 - 11:30 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)
Milar, you are an optimist, but I don't see anything coming out of Harley's factory doors except more chrome-laden cruisers.
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Not_purple_s2
Posted on Thursday, October 15, 2009 - 11:32 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)
From the Q&A link next to Erik's video:
Are any of the brand’s models going to be available as Harley-Davidson models?
Harley-Davidson has no plans to produce Buell motorcycles as Harley-Davidson products.
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Sayitaintso
Posted on Thursday, October 15, 2009 - 11:34 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)
Not turn Buell's into HD's but rather develop a whole new line of HD sportbikes.
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Not_purple_s2
Posted on Thursday, October 15, 2009 - 11:34 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)
However right below that is this:
Will Harley-Davidson be using any Buell designs or incorporating Buell technology into the H-D product line?
Buell has introduced many advancements in motorcycle design and technology over the years. Harley-Davidson will continue to benefit from that knowledge going forward and it’s possible that some of this technology will find its way into a Harley-Davidson motorcycle.


But I think they're just covering their bases in case they want to use Buell's belt tensioner, brake designs, ect.
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Chellem
Posted on Thursday, October 15, 2009 - 11:47 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)
I'm not privy to any confidential info - obviously, since I heard about this whole thing today like everyone else, but generally, if Erik worked with H-D, don't the patents for all his stuff, intellectually, belong to H-D?

Would he be allowed to utilize those designs and patents that HE created on his own line of bikes? Would he have to buy them?

Just wondering if anyone had any insight...
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S1wmike
Posted on Thursday, October 15, 2009 - 11:58 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)
That was the SADDEST thing I have seen in a looooong time. Watching the creator of such a wonderful line of bikes, sit there, nearly in tears and tell you it is over, a dream fulfilled now crushed. If it wasn't for Erik's involvement in the V-rod I would be tempted to send mine off a cliff.
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Babired
Posted on Thursday, October 15, 2009 - 12:04 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)
My MC safety boss just sent me this link

http://www.jsonline.com/business/64352232.html

K
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Milar
Posted on Thursday, October 15, 2009 - 12:08 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)
>but generally, if Erik worked with H-D, >don't the patents for all his stuff, >intellectually, belong to H-D? Would he be allowed to utilize those >designs and patents that HE created on >his own line of bikes? Would he have to >buy them?

Now that could be an interesting lawsuit!

BMC was independent for many years. I suspect some patents were registered before HD bought them and after Erik left HD.

Were the patents in BMC's name or Eriks name? Did HD buy them when they bought BMW or not?

M
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Bomber
Posted on Thursday, October 15, 2009 - 12:12 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)
My thoughts are with the folks in East Troy, as well as American Sportbike -- gonna be a tough period, I'm sure . . . .

I'm very saddened by the news, and would really, like to see Buell (the brand) continue somehow . . . . .
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Court
Posted on Thursday, October 15, 2009 - 02:56 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)
>>>don't the patents for all his stuff, intellectually, belong to H-D?


Owning the gun doesn't make you a marksman.
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Buellinachinashop
Posted on Thursday, October 15, 2009 - 03:16 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)
"Owning the gun doesn't make you a marksman."

Nor in the case of Harley, owning a brain make you smart.
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Rocketsprink
Posted on Thursday, October 15, 2009 - 03:27 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)
but owning the patents sure makes it hard to continue on.
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Doughnut
Posted on Thursday, October 15, 2009 - 03:31 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)
HD New Business Strategy is Ruthless. Seems they took a page from the Book of Buell
(Sorry, sarcasim)}
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Hughlysses
Posted on Thursday, October 15, 2009 - 03:31 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)
but owning the patents sure makes it hard to continue on.

Well, it would seem to require that you start over with a clean sheet of paper. Great from a design standpoint, PITA from a financial one.

(Message edited by Hughlysses on October 15, 2009)
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Swordsman
Posted on Thursday, October 15, 2009 - 04:31 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)
How long are patents good for? I've always heard 7 years, but some stuff on the Net says 20...?

~SM
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