| Author | Message | ||
     Oz666 |
And had a curb weight of (gasp) 1277 pounds! And that was the LIGHTER one, can anyone say BIG twin?   Oz "Nobody gets in to see the Wizard. Not nobody, not no how." | ||
| Josh_cox |
That would be 134.26 HP with 98.84 ft/lbs of torque for the 2400cc model, and 109 hp with 81.1 ft/lbs of torque for the 2000cc model. KW is a lot more power than hp. Sounds like a fast cruiser! | ||
| Rubberdown |
Most riders could cheaply deal with the extra weight problem by losing a few kilos off the waist. | ||
| Diablobrian |
Hey, I resemble that remark!  | ||
| Ducxl |
SHIMS...I did two opener shims at 3000 miles and a major(3openers/2closers) at 12,500 along with 3 opening rocker arms.......MYSELF.The cams practically fall out of the Ducati they're so easy.The labor involved is just so overblown.If i had to explain,you'd never understand.How about the friction involved.Ever try rotating XL cams? You can rotate Duc cams with two fingers.Pushrods are very reliable that's true.BUT THERE ARE MORE EFFICIENT METHODS TO OPEN VALVES.A duc 996 weighs 435..An X1 weighs 440..hmmmmmmm.Similar comparo XB to 1098...Buell needs to get wet,it's just more efficient. And if you like to wrench,well wrenching a watercooled bike is NO more complex.More parts,but NOT more difficult | ||
| New12r |
And if you like to wrench,well wrenching a watercooled bike is NO more complex.More parts,but NOT more difficult You must like dealing with Ethylene Glycol? Personally I would rather not deal with it, it is corrosive, you cant wash it off of anything, it stinks, it kills your critters, and if you ever have a problem with it try getting home without it! Yes you can make it reliable etc... It has advantages and I would not not buy a bike because of it, I just like my simple old and tired XB motor for daily street abuse. Oh, and if Buell does release a big bad azz stompin' superbike that I can race, sure I will buy one(and hopefully start racin)!  | ||
| Xl1200r |
Last I checked, an XB12R weighs 395 lbs. The Duc 1098 is 381 lbs without water. Hardley worth arguing about. | ||
| Xl1200r |
BTW - According to the Ducati service manual, the 1098 requires: Valve adjustments every 7500 miles Replace timing belts every 15,000 miles Check timing belt tension every 7500 miles Check, lube and align chain drive every 7500 miles Check coolant level every 7500 miles ...none of which are required on our lowly XB engines... | ||
| Kootenay |
Yeah, but our "lowly" XB engines require frequent primary drive chain tensioning (why is this not automated? why is there a chain there at all?) And valve adjustments are generally referred to in any manual as "inspect and adjust if required"--in fact, adjustment is not always required. Don't get me wrong, I really like the Buell engine. But let's be honest--it doesn't really have any technical advantages over a Duc twin, or really any other modern motorcycle engine, beyond the valve lash adjustment issue. Sure, water adds weight--but so does finning, and a Buell engine isn't all that light to start with (many water-cooled ones are lighter AFAIK). The cases on a Buell engine are pretty substantial, and I assume the transmission gears are not lightweight either. No, it's hard to argue technical superiority of the Buell engine over any other. But many of us still like it, warts and all--why? Because it feels good to ride! There's something about the way the power is put to the ground that's very satisfying...it's intangible, I know, but it really adds to the enjoyment I feel when I ride, and that's one reason I bought my Firebolt. I had never been inside a Harley dealership before getting interested in a Buell, and while I still don't see myself owning a Harley any time soon, I do understand the attraction more now that I've learned to appreciate my Buell... | ||
| Xl1200r |
The Buell powertrains definately pull a lot from the aura and mystique of the harleys, which isn't a bad thing. You got me on the primary chain, but that still only replaces one item in the list - say, the timing belts? | ||
| Rocketman |
The 1098 requires replacing timing belts every 15,000 miles and checking the timing belt tension every 7500 miles according to the service manual? Not sure where you got the manual from, but that's great news for Ducati. I mean it's not like it's hard to replace a belt, never mind check its tension. Takes about 20 minutes maximum to change both. But my 916 recommends change at ever 6000 miles rigorously. 15000 miles? Man I'm in Ducati heaven because if nothing else it will help to dispel the myth that belts and shims on Ducatis are an expensive task for the service department, which is never the case. Nothing could be simpler. Try changing an S1 drive belt in 20 minutes. Rocket | ||
| Xl1200r |
got the manual from the Duc website. Looks like all the manuals for all the bikes going back a number of years are availible in .pdf format. | ||
| Ducxl |
BTW - According to the Ducati service manual, the 1098 requires: Valve adjustments every 7500 miles Replace timing belts every 15,000 miles Check timing belt tension every 7500 miles Check, lube and align chain drive every 7500 miles Check coolant level every 7500 miles ooooooohhhhhhh,You forgot also the dreaded,"check tire pressure before every ride,that's the toughest one.  My point is,air OR water cooled,the maintainance is really not any more complex,for the average mechanic(me). And i also like these air cooled engines...........but want more | ||
| Henrik |
One problem with water cooling (seriousness is owner dependent  ) is if you run "water wetter" instead of anti-freeze (mandated by some track day organizers) and then forget about it over the winter .... can anyone say "freeze plugs" Henrik (don't ask ... ) | ||
| Xl1200r |
ooooooohhhhhhh,You forgot also the dreaded,"check tire pressure before every ride,that's the toughest one. I was only listing the items that were not required for the Buell bikes - tire pressure needs to be checked on both bikes. Everyone is arguing that all this stuff doesn't take very long, and granted, it's true. I worked in a garage for a number of years in high-school and during college, and while I'm not certified or anything, I'm pretty handy with a wrench. I'll admit that none of these things are that big of a deal, but put them all together, and then you have something. Checking the timing belts, adjusting the valves, whatever... Everyone says "Oh, that's cake - you're done in 20 minutes." Well, that list has 5 things on it, and if you were a pro and each one took only half that time, you'd still be looking at almost an extra hour to do routine service on your bike. My time is more valuable than that. How can you argue that maintenence is no more complex on a water-cooled bike? More parts = more complex, it's just the way the universe works. Is it any harder? In most cases, no. But my air-cooled bike doesn't have a raditor, water pump, coolant hoses or thermostat to deal with. That makes it less complicated in my book. (Message edited by xl1200r on January 10, 2007) | ||
| Rocketman |
What is there to service on a radiator, water pump, coolant hoses and thermostats. It's a visual check apart from testing the specific gravity of the coolant (which is only really necessary on an ageing machine). I think the important issue here is all motorcycle maintenance should be high tech no matter how simple the motorcycle and its components. It's as much about attitude, and if you like your bike enough, you won't worry about the odd hour saved here or saved there when it comes to regular maintenance. There's a huge amount of satisfaction in rebuilding a tube frame Buell. It's a fairly simple design but complex in its coming together. Likewise shimming a Ducati is really simple yet it is still rewarding knowing you've achieved doing so. If time's really an issue, make time, or employ someone. Rocket | ||
| Bomber |
Rocket's got it dead nut accurate -- while tech for it's own sake doesn't interest me at all (anymore), any machine is going to require maintenance, and, after enough time, more serious attention folks fall into a number of camps -- love doin it, hate doin it but can't afford to job it out, more moeny than time and/or inclination it's gotta be done, just figure out how YOU wish to get it handled, man up, and do it! | ||
| Blake |
"(Teh Buell engine) doesn't really have any technical advantages over a Duc twin, or really any other modern motorcycle engine, beyond the valve lash adjustment issue." Following are some very prominent technical advantages over most all other comparably performing motorcycle engines and another versus all liquid cooled motorcycle engines. 1. Superior fuel efficiency. 2. Superior low end power. 3. Significantly reduced maintenance, not just in valve lash, but in coolant system maintenance, front brake maintenance, final drive maintenance. 4. Zero risk of coolant system catastrophic failure and subsequent engine damage not to mention the risk of scalding hot liquid spewing all over the place including on the rider as you one is riding down the road. Sean, Your Buell is ten years old my friend. There have been some new models with significant improvements since then. For instance, try changing the final drive belt on an XB. Twenty minutes if that. Anyone care to compare the time required to change front brake pads on an XB versus any competitive OEM dual disked system? | ||
| Rocketman |
My 916 is older  Rocket | ||
| Jon |
3 hours and 11 minutes? 2 days? | ||
| Blake |
Jon is closest so far. | ||
| Xl1200r |
What is there to service on a radiator, water pump, coolant hoses and thermostats. It's a visual check apart from testing the specific gravity of the coolant (which is only really necessary on an ageing machine). Umm... How about the radiator, water pump, coolant hoses and thermostat? These are all items that I can comfortably ignore on my Buell and not think twice about paying no attention to them The point was that these parts exist on a water-cooled machine - it's what makes it water-cooled (duh). And if a part is present, it has the ability to break. If a part is not present, it cannot break. I wonder how many 2WD Chevy pickup trucks have ever needed the front differential fluid changed?  | ||
| Ducxl |
1. Superior fuel efficiency. 2. Superior low end power. These are not attributes of a sportbike or performance machine.They're attributes of a Vespa... I LOVE THAT GUY! Seriously,they're not | ||
| Xl1200r |
Anyone who feels the phrase "Superior low end power" describes a Vespa needs to not throw a leg over any motorcycle with more then 4.5 hp.  | ||
| Rocketman |
Dude, liquid cooling on motorcycles works. It's not like you're taking the bit between your teeth when you own a liquid cooled bike. Hell dude, even the Scott Squirrel has stood the test of time, since about 1922. In terms of service and reliability LC is not a time bomb waiting to go off. Seldom does it ever require attention. But have it your way. You just miss out on a zillion great bikes to chose from if you discount it. Rocket | ||
| Ducxl |
Low end power to me smacks of "cruiser" bike.Even my Buells',when i ride them hard are running at around 4500rpm. My dealer best described it as "the ability to not have to downshift when encountering a hill".Cruiser rpm is down low...Ask any Ferrarri owner if they're concerned about fuel efficiency...High Performance seldom considers fuel efficiency. | ||
| Buellinachinashop |
Low end power, to me, means nice torque and acceleration at the beginning of the power band. My 12Ss does just that, although I've only ridden it twice since I got it last month. | ||
| Reepicheep |
Hey Rocket... Whatever happened to your passion for the Brutale? Cycle World just finished their long term wrap up for the bike... Lots of interesting notes there. | ||
| Rocketman |
Thanks for asking Bill. I decided to wait for the 910cc, and see how that turned out. This spring / summer I intend to test a 910 but the reality is I'm not sure anymore. I really want to have the S1W and 916 as keepers, and probably will. Never mind finding and spending several thousands, I was hoping to fund a Brutale outright. Other projects have got in the way so my funds are precariously balanced between other things. I have the TVR to finish this next few months. The TVR needs a grand or two throwing at it, and this year is important as I want to be at TVR's 60th birthday celebrations in it. You have to understand I've took the stock motor from 137bhp to a guaranteed 200bhp. That's meant race headers and a full new tuned stainless exhaust. New 38 Webber downdraught with modification. Race fuel pump and big bore fuel lines. The list is endless, and I'm looking at putting a Sierra Cosworth 4x4 limited slip differential in it too - all before summer. Last year I sold my Maserati and my fancy Saab Carlsson in an effort to rid myself of their responsibilities. Thinking that was a good move I've instead ended up running my Jaguar XJS, which is a lovely example and doesn't deserve to be used through a British winter. A couple of months ago I stripped the complete air suspension and running gear off my 6 wheel Saab transporter, all in an effort to replace 8 worn bushes. As the 6 wheeler was custom built in 1996 in Sweden, it's been a tedious job sourcing the parts I need, not to mention expensive. I'm hoping to take delivery of these bushes in the next two weeks, and that becomes another necessary project to finish once the suspension is back together.  Don't forget, in the past two years I've suffered pretty rough with my thyroid condition, thyroid eye disease and a damaged nerve in my right leg which means my foot went numb for over a year. In that time I completely rebuilt the S1W too. And though the S1W is finished it is never really finished. Wave rotors and ISR levers are next on the shopping list. Did you ask about the Brutale? Time will tell Bill, but I still think it's the best bike on the planet today, though I've only ridden the 750 and not the 910. Rocket | ||
| Ceejay |
Rocket- Propane cylinders don't make fer good fail safes  Do you answer Saab questions, as I have few in regards to my 9-5 pre GM? In regards to the next Buell motor-it seems as if Buell was answering everyone in the US's gripe about getting to work. Excellent fuel economy, high service intervals, very user friendly-don't wack the throttle tho. The problem is that most of us here regard bikes as a "luxury", which could use a bit of changing-me included. |
