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Spreadem
| | Posted on Wednesday, December 27, 2006 - 07:25 pm: | 
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If I remember correctly it is illegal to attempt suicide, burn an american flag...
I serve under the US flag, and I despise anyone who burns it, but the Supreme Court recently upheld flag-burning as a method of free speech and said it was constitutionally protected. |
Aesquire
| | Posted on Wednesday, December 27, 2006 - 08:14 pm: |
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Many flags are made of petrochemicals & may stick to bare hands, causing very painful and scarring injuries. When putting out a flag fire, it is safest to use the persons shirt, jacket, or pants who sets the fire to protect the hands. Removing the person from the clothing is considered polite. If he objects to this, respect his wishes. Rolling the burning flag on the ground is probably best, dragging the burning flag & protester's clothing along the ground behind your car is very unsafe & may cause the fire to spread. May also cause well deserved jail time.
Just some safety/first aid advice. |
Rainman
| | Posted on Wednesday, December 27, 2006 - 08:43 pm: |
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Hope my defense attorney doesn't call me to testify in my own defense. I'm afraid I'd be left speechless. |
Cruisin
| | Posted on Friday, December 29, 2006 - 08:30 am: |
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Yeah, it's all about celebrating the birth of Jesus...
I'm all for presents and good cheer, don't get me wrong, but get it right:
The real reason for the season
Many mainstream Christmas traditions stem from original Pagan practices. Though Christian origins and associations have been attributed to many of these traditions, they do in fact pre-date Christianity.
Yule Log - A special log was chosen on the eve of Yule, for the holiday fire. A small piece from last year's log is used to light the fire. The lighting of the fire was a festive family event, to hurry the return of the sun. Charred pieces from the fire would be kept to protect the house through the coming year. The woods most often sought for the Yule log were birch, oak willow or holly. Today, the Yule log is sometimes represented as a log cake instead. Or a small log is decorated with candles. The burning of the Yule log is a well-known tradition, but it's not often done outside of the Pagan community anymore.
Kissing Under Mistletoe - The roots of this habit are unknown, but is likely tied with the fertility aspects of mistletoe and that it was viewed as a bringer of peace by the Druids. Mistletoe was also a powerful healing herb. Mistletoe and kissing are also seen in one of the Norse myths: Frigga is the Norse Goddess of love, marriage and fertility. Her son, Balder was slain by Loki with an arrrow made from mistletoe. When Balder was restored to life, Frigga blessed the mistletoe and gave a kiss to anyone who passed under it. Some later versions of this tradition say to remove one berry with each kiss. When there are no more berries on the sprig of mistletoe, no more kisses.
Tree Decorating - There is some debate on the origin of this tradition. Druids (and some other ancient cultures) saw evergreen trees as symbols of everlasting life, because they seemed to live through the winter undaunted by the cold. So using evergreen branches as decorations symbolized the undying strength of the Sun. Decorating the trees may have come from the ancient Roman festival of Saturnalia (see below for more on Saturnlia).
Gift Giving - The Christians attribute the giving of gifts at Christmas to the wise men who brough gold, frankincense and myrrh to the newborn Jesus. But this tradition was common well before the time of Jesus, during Saturnalia.
The Ancient Roman Festival of Saturnalia
Saturnalia is one of the best known ancient celebrations of the Winter Solstice. The name comes from the Roman God Saturn, who ruled over agriculture. He was the main God honoured at this time, after the fall crops had been sown. Saturnalia lasted for several days (typically 7, but various officials changed the length of the festival on a few occassions). Saturnlia was the greatest festival of the Roman year, and was marked with great feasting, gift-giving, dancing, playing, and relaxing. Homes were decorated, work was suspended, and there was general merry-making done by all.} |
Tramp
| | Posted on Friday, December 29, 2006 - 10:18 am: |
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i feel lousy for the christmas tree and the american flag.... |
Hootowl
| | Posted on Friday, December 29, 2006 - 10:28 am: |
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Crusin,
All true. Christians didn't make up any of that stuff. But when we put up a tree these days, we aren't worshipping Saturn or the Earth. We are celebrating the birth of Christ. I do not believe those ancient traditions would still be around if not for the continued celebration of Christ's birth by Christians.
There is also some debate as to whether Christ was even born in December. Doesn't matter. We don't know. Some say December was picked so that the new Christian holiday would coincide with existing Pagan festivals. Again, doesn't matter. It doesn't diminish Christmas in any way. |
Slaughter
| | Posted on Friday, December 29, 2006 - 10:51 am: |
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Let's not confuse the actions of an idiot in Bakersfield with those of the Vietnamese Buddhist monk, Thich Quang Duc - the actions of a fool v. the self-sacrifice of a monk in a very REAL protest.
The Buddhists in Vietnam were demanding (in their way) the same basic rights accorded to others in their country. Thich Quang Duc decided to do something about it.
From buddhistinformation.com
On June 11, 1963, Thich Quang Duc, a Buddhist monk from the Linh-Mu Pagoda in Hue, Vietnam, burned himself to death at a busy intersection in downtown Saigon, Vietnam.. Eye witness accounts state that Thich Quang Duc and at least two fellow monks arrived at the intersection by car, Thich Quang Duc got out of the car, assumed the traditional lotus position and the accompanying monks helped him pour gasoline over himself. He ignited the gasoline by lighting a match and burned to death in a matter of minutes. David Halberstam, a reporter for the New York Times covering the war in Vietnam, gave the following account:
"I was to see that sight again, but once was enough. Flames were coming from a human being; his body was slowly withering and shriveling up, his head blackening and charring. In the air was the smell of burning human flesh; human beings burn surprisingly quickly. Behind me I could hear the sobbing of the Vietnamese who were now gathering. I was too shocked to cry, too confused to take notes or ask questions, too bewildered to even think…. As he burned he never moved a muscle, never uttered a sound, his outward composure in sharp contrast to the wailing people around him."
Thich Quang Duc had prepared himself for his self-immolation through several weeks of meditation and had explained his motivation in letters to members of his Buddhist community as well as to the government of South Vietnam in the weeks prior to his self-immolation. In these letters he described his desire to bring attention to the repressive policies of the Catholic Diem regime that controlled the South Vietnamese government at the time. Prior to the self-immolation, the South Vietnamese Buddhists had made the following requests to the Diem regime, asking it to:
1. Lift its ban on flying the traditional Buddhist flag;
2. Grant Buddhism the same rights as Catholicism;
3. Stop detaining Buddhists;
4. Give Buddhist monks and nuns the right to practice and spread their religion; and
5. Pay fair compensations to the victim’s families and punish those responsible for their deaths.
When these requests were not addressed by the Deim regime, Thich Quang Duc carried out his self-immolation. Following his death, Thich Quang Duc was cremated and legend has it that his heart would not burn. As a result, his heart is considered Holy and is in the custody of the Reserve Bank of Vietnam.
GAWD I love religious discussions.
(Message edited by slaughter on December 29, 2006) |
Slaughter
| | Posted on Friday, December 29, 2006 - 10:59 am: |
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Oh and Buddhism teaches that suicide goes against Buddhist teachings
"Suicide is an act of self-destruction, having as causes the following: (1) lack of courage to live and to cope with difficulties; (2) defeat by life and loss of all hope; (3) desire for nonexistence….. The monk who burns himself has lost neither courage nor hope; nor does he desire nonexistence. On the contrary, he is very courageous and hopeful and aspires for something good in the future. He does not think that he is destroying himself; he believes in the good fruition of his act of self-sacrifice for the sake of others…. I believe with all my heart that the monks who burned themselves did not aim at the death of their oppressors but only at a change in their policy. Their enemies are not man. They are intolerance, fanaticism, dictatorship, cupidity, hatred, and discrimination which lie within the heart of man."
and NO, I'm not buddhist - just find there is much to admire in their teachings.
Kind of a thread hijack in a way but it's still early, the coffee is starting to kick in and at 0800, I'll wake Sunny up and we'll start our day.
Best all in the coming year!} |
Slaughter
| | Posted on Friday, December 29, 2006 - 11:01 am: |
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Oh, and as we've seen in the Bakersfield incident, idiocy knows no bounds |
Metalstorm
| | Posted on Friday, December 29, 2006 - 03:07 pm: |
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This thread makes me think of the old saying,
Build a man a fire and he will be warm for a day.
Set a man on fire and he will be warm for the rest of his life. |
Mortarmanmike120
| | Posted on Friday, December 29, 2006 - 05:22 pm: |
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Holy ****, that is the funniest thing I've heard all week. Thanks Tom. |
Slaughter
| | Posted on Friday, December 29, 2006 - 09:13 pm: |
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Build a man a fire and he will be warm for a day.
Set a man on fire and he will be warm for the rest of his life.
THAT IS RICH!
I can really use it! |
Tramp
| | Posted on Saturday, December 30, 2006 - 09:20 am: |
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i sent this piece to the local paper- they printed it, eagerly, as a local school caved to the inane demand of some moronic wannabe PC soccer-mom that santa not be allowed to visit the school, due to 'religious' nature of the geezer.
the paper promptly printed it, i refused payment. i feel strongly re: keeping santa, mangers, christ, trees, etc. in this pantheistic holiday.
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Santa Claus has been a part of Yuletide festivities for centuries…. Centuries, in fact, before the births of either Christ or Saint Nicholas!
The name Santa Claus is an anglicized version of the Dutch name of the pre-christian Norse God, “Sinter Klass”, or “Klaus Of the Cinders”, so-named for the firepit in every Norse home which served as his altar. You may be familiar with Sinter Klaus’ more notable appellation, “Thor” which means “Thunder”.
Thor’s birthday, incidentally, was said to be December 25th, on which night he would bring gifts to Norse children, via the chimney, to his altar.
The Celts (who peopled most of Europe for centuries) held high esteem for their own “Holly King”, a bearded Icon of the Winter “dark half” of the year, who rode a wagon or sleigh drawn by 8 deer (or goats, according to which legend you follow), which represented the 8 sabbats, or holy days, of the druidic year.
(Clearly, Rudolph didn’t fit into the Celtic calendar)
To the Celts, the Holly King represented the Dark half of the year, with the Winter Solstice representing the day on which his warm-weather counterpart, the Oak King defeats the Holly King, ensuring the return of the sun. This pageantry played out annually for the simple agrarian denizens of Pre-christian Europe, and in the more remote regions, it continued long after Christianity’s spread throughout the continent.
The Simple farmer lived and died by the seasons and the elements, and was little affected by socioeconomic trends. In fact, the latin word for “farmer, and “civilian”, is “Pagan”.
To the Christian Romans, one was either a “Soldier” or a “Pagan”.
The amalgam of the Holly King with later Christian icons is no coincidence. The observation of Christmas, itself, was deemed by The Church (in 320 C.E.) to best fall upon the highest holy day of the resident “Pagans”, so as to jibe with the existing customs of the Romans, who celebrated the Dec. 25th birthday of the Persian Sun-god “Mithra”. In 274 the Pagan Roman Emperor Aurelian decreed Dec. 25th to be the birthday of Sol Invictus, or, “The Unconquerable Sun”. It was fortuitous that this day fell, typically, on or near the Yuletide celebrations of the Saxons, along with the Celtic Holly King’s victory celebration on the Winter Solstice.
The Yuletide celebration , for many prechristian peoples of Europe, included burning the Yule Log (Yule is Saxon for “Wheel”, as in the wheel of the year), and traveling to neighbors’ homes to join in singing, hanging mistletoe, etc. The Christmas Tree is both a later manifestation of an upright yule-log and a common icon of the tree-worship cults of pre-christian Europe, but that’s another story.
Suffice it to say, Santa Claus is not the icon of any singular religion, or, ultimately, of any religion, at all. (Although the later christian appellation “Kris Kringle” is anglicized from the German “Kris Kinder” or, in English, “Christ Child”)
Santa Claus serves as an enduring manifestation of legends and beliefs which span the Northern hemisphere from Iran to Norway, over countless centuries of human celebration. As such, we might all find something of value in this culturally-diverse symbol of good cheer and the promise of returning Springtime. The associated acts of charity, the exchange of gifts, the breaking of bread with family and friends during this season is not the currency of any one religion, but, rather, a time of rejoicing to be shared by us all.
Jay Westervelt, Pres.
Sugar Loaf Historical Society |
Liquorwhere
| | Posted on Sunday, December 31, 2006 - 04:37 pm: |
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These are excellent posts, thanks for the interesting read. |
Trolldaddi
| | Posted on Sunday, December 31, 2006 - 09:21 pm: |
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I know the Bakersfield fire Captian Garth fom college, I know he was having a hard time not laughing when talking to the news.
(Message edited by trolldaddi on December 31, 2006) |
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