| Author | Message | ||
     Diablobrian |
the 9 and 12 motors have the same bore. Stroke and piston design are the difference between them. A 12 with 9 stroke would be a 9 (if the piston design, rods, and dome are ignored) | ||
| Davegess |
Trojan, I suspect those KTM build number could be found. Buell built 100 bikes for the 1991 model year. About 500 for 1995 if I am not hallucinating this week. Now they do 10000 a year. That is very impressive growth. What did KTM do in 1991? | ||
| Davegess |
I did a little checking, I did not realize that KTM has been around for decades and makes close ot 80000 bike a year. Don't think they really compare to Buell. Buell looks to be unique, started in the last 25 years, initially had no big dollar benefactor, when limited money became available quickly grew production by a factor of 100 and moved to being a profitable company , builds a unique product. How about it? | ||
| Rocketman |
the 675 is, by all reports, a great scoot, but no superbike, to my mind I think it is exactly a 600 superbike and it's worth remembering its predecessor won the Junior TT a couple of years ago. Rocket | ||
| Trojan |
I did a little checking, I did not realize that KTM has been around for decades and makes close ot 80000 bike a year. Don't think they really compare to Buell. Buell looks to be unique, started in the last 25 years, initially had no big dollar benefactor, when limited money became available quickly grew production by a factor of 100 and moved to being a profitable company , builds a unique product. How about it? I am no KTM expert, but a little digging actually reveals that, although they have been making motorcycles since 1953, they went bankrupt in 1991 and the KTM company that we see now was pretty much a new business from 1992. All of the firms range of road bikes have been designed and built since that time, so comparisons with Buell are not that far from the mark. KTM may be a bigger company than Buell, but Buell have H-D behind them as well. KTM sales of 80,000+ per year are pretty impressive, as is their comittment to become the Europes biggest motorcycle manufacturer. | ||
| Oldog |
I for one want to see the Buell model that is a KTM beater, and thr sooner the better. Trojan: If the KTM Superduke were available in the US at all, and I could get parts. I would be all over it. I think that IF BMC could get a unique to Buell engine, with competitive power / weight and get the dealer issues resolved then it would be different. Weather or not you agree with HDs' approach they sell their product, We understand that they dont understand the sportbike segment, that is a different discussion for a different day. You cant change "specsheet racers", You can change the product to match the consumers desires. } | ||
| Mike748 |
KTMUSA is importing the SD for '07. This will be here in February.  | ||
| Pwnzor |
Looks cool, but I'd never buy another bike with the pipes under the seat. Learned that one the hard way with the Ducati. | ||
| Djkaplan |
KTM has the hardware, but the styling is ridiculous. I can't wait for designers to get away from sharp edged, faceted styling cues. Anything too trendy just looks passe after a year, or two. Then you'll be just like the guy still wearing acid washed jeans and a Members Only jacket. | ||
| Jscott |
"KTM has the hardware, but the styling is ridiculous." Amen... Although their fully faired concept does look a lot better than that "naked" example.  This "naked" one looks alright...  (Message edited by JScott on November 22, 2006) | ||
| Trojan |
"KTM has the hardware, but the styling is ridiculous." Amen... Although the fully faired one does look a little better than that "naked" example. Wait till you see one in the flesh. you will be impressed I promise you. The styling looks a lot more angular in pictures than it actually is. The second 'naked' picture shows the updated 2007 model that you will get in the US I assume. For 2007 KTM are sponsoring a one make 'Superduke Battle' series as a support race at every British Superbike round and at the British GP. This will get live audiences of up to 100,000 and include TV coverage. Competitors buy the bike (GBP6500) and race kit at the start of the season and get tyre deals all year etc. This will be the highest profile one make championship in the UK next year and yet has cost KTM almost nothing to organise, as the bikes are bought by the competitors from the dealers. Buell could have done a similar thing if the UK Importers had been switched on enough to think of it, or interested in promoting their bike to the right people i.e. sports riders. (Message edited by trojan on November 22, 2006) (Message edited by trojan on November 22, 2006) | ||
| Bomber |
Rocket -- dunno bout in your neck of the woods, but in some places, superbike generally refers to something a bit larger than 600 Triumph's offering in this segment is great, no doubt about it -- hope it sells like gangbusters | ||
| Daves |
I like apples  | ||
| Diablobrian |
I think of Buells as something more exotic than either apples or oranges. Also I'm not sure I like identifying my bike with a fruit...(not that there's anything wrong with that) What would be a better analogy??? cats and dogs?...... too adversarial, and too common. Bulls and steers?...... too barnyard, and involves castration. no thank you! Barracudas and sharks?...... has possibilities, but something smells fishy.... Lions and tigers?...... and bears...Oh my! Too Wizard of Oz. Anyone have any better ideas for the comparison between the Buells and conventional sport bikes? | ||
| Daves |
How about, Buells and conventional sport bikes  | ||
| Diablobrian |
That has potential Dave, but I'm not sure if it has real "staying power". (Message edited by diablobrian on November 22, 2006) | ||
| Hootowl |
"I can't wait for designers to get away from sharp edged, faceted styling cues. Anything too trendy just looks passe after a year, or two." The F-117 styling makes them invisible to police radar.  | ||
| Diablobrian |
The japanese love this trend. It's just like the origami they did as kids and sometimes still do as adults. The KTM RC8 looks pretty good except for the tail and the bulges on the tank. The tail looks like it's just an afterthought. The bulges look like the styling department thought it needed more "texture" and stuck them on. (Message edited by diablobrian on November 22, 2006) | ||
| Jscott |
The new Ilmor X3 is quite angular as well...  http://www.superbikeplanet.com/image/2006/mgp/ilmo r/ | ||
| Hootowl |
That's a pretty cool rear stand. | ||
| Diablobrian |
interesting rear stand. I'm guessing it bolts or is pinned together and packs flat. Otherwise it is a little over-engineered. Doing things your own way is one thing, but when designing a new race bike and building a new team it's a waste of time, money and brain power re-inventing the rear stand when a conventional stand works just fine. There may be reasons I'm unaware of, like needing to work with their starting system etc... As always if I'm wrong, I'm wrong. I'd like to know why if I am though. Just because won't convince me, and "to look cool" isn't a valid reason for over-engineering. | ||
| Rocketman |
Bomber, that's why I said it was a 600 Superbike. I mean, why call 600cc racing Supersport? Do we have to split hairs? It just seems daft you saying it's no Superbike when we all know it's capacity. If that excludes it instantly what's the point in the comment? It's like saying Buells no Triumph  Anyway, it's a bit larger than 600. It's 675cc, lol. Rocket | ||
| M2nc |
Rocket here in the US Superbike is 1000cc and SuperSport is 600cc. No one is splitting hairs, they are different classes here. Just a terminology of the area thing. I have to agree with you about the 675. It is the mack daddy of 600cc & 750cc for that matter. In the last Cycleworld test the 675 beat all 600cc and all but two 1000cc bikes out on the track. A fine piece of equipment that clocked the fastest tight corner speeds of all bikes tested, leaving the liter bikes to resort to HP in the straights to try and catch it. It has definitely moved up my wish list for a play/track bike. | ||
| Diablobrian |
In club racing (CCS) there is middleweight superbike which is the 600cc racers with slicks and all the bells and whistles. So there are 600 superbikes here in the US. In the AMA there are 600 superbikes, It's called Formula Extreme. It's the same thing, except they opened up the rules for larger displacements in other configurations. Bottom line is that you're both right, and you're both wrong depending on how you look at it...  Play nice! | ||
| Johnnylunchbox |
I'd say Buells are more like pomegranates than apples or oranges. | ||
| Diablobrian |
to racers superbike is a classification split into ultra-light, light, medium, and heavy weight divisions. The reason it is a "class" in the ama is marketing. Same reason all the classes have "Super" in front of them except formula extreme, and in modern marketing the only thing better than super is extreme. | ||
| Rocketman |
I must be right because I said "I think it is exactly a 600 superbike". Think means it's only me saying so in this statement. Exactly means I'm referring specifically, in this case, to my description. 600 superbike was the description I and I alone used. Note I didn't call the Triumph a Superbike. I said it was a 600 superbike, which is why I didn't use a capital S. I'd hate to go into battle with you guys. Imagine the confusion "open here twist and pull pin" could mean anything  I am a god. I am never wrong. I am......... Troy Freeakin Frankenfurter | ||
| Trojan |
interesting rear stand. I'm guessing it bolts or is pinned together and packs flat. Otherwise it is a little over-engineered. Doing things your own way is one thing, but when designing a new race bike and building a new team it's a waste of time, money and brain power re-inventing the rear stand when a conventional stand works just fine. There may be reasons I'm unaware of, like needing to work with their starting system etc... As always if I'm wrong, I'm wrong. I'd like to know why if I am though. Just because won't convince me, and "to look cool" isn't a valid reason for over-engineering It's a MotoGP thang! Take a look at most of the teams starter trolleys and they are all over engineered and customised to some degree that is beyond function. The works kawasaki starter cart even has a carbon fibre Akropovic exhaust! With the fabrication facilities that these teams have it isn't that surprising that when they need to make something functional like a stand it turns out to be pretty high tech. | ||
| Diablobrian |
Let them get into the pit row bling wars next year. This year they need to focus on getting the bike on the pace. | ||
| Oldog |
Interesting KTM - SD claimes 120hp / 405LB dry weight. 6 speeds, hydraulic clutch interesting .... nearest dealer M-Beach 65 miles away. Has any one gotten an MSRP? Any one ridden one? |
