| Author | Message | ||
     Jscott |
http://www.motoczysz.com/pdfs/rrw_9_06.pdf Excellent publication. I highly recommend it. | ||
| Skully |
I do too. | ||
| Court |
It's a great article and fun reading. As a charter member in the MotoCyz owner's group, I enjoy reading that stuff. But, as a student of Buell history I am befuddled by the assertion that they are essentially copying Erik Buell and, on the same page, burning case at the rate of $250,000 a month. I really like the idea and the looks of the bike and if my words sound harsh, I'm just amazed at how these folks seem to shoot themselves in their own foot with their own gun and their own bullets. What is someone, yet to produce a motorcycle, doing angsting over the design of t-shirt, posters and caps. Erik was smart enough to turn that stuff over to Dave Gess to ensure, somewhere in the process, a motorcycle was born. I wish these folks the best as they copy Erik Buell, but I'm skeptical. | ||
| Davegess |
If they copied Erik they might actaully get a motorcycle into production and keep it there. I love the effort and all the ideas they are trying, just waiting for th eactual bike to happen. These efforts along with all the failed ones like the Norton from Oregon, the Hanlons et.al. remind that what Erik has done is darn near impossible. | ||
| Eboos |
Excellent find. Thank you. I think most of the author's initial reactions were also felt here. | ||
| Buellzebub |
great read... best wishes on the project | ||
| Jscott |
Here's another one, but unfortunately not in its entirety. I especially enjoyed Kenin Cameron's line: "It's also trendy to say, 'genius ship product'" http://www.motoczysz.com/pdfs/cw8-06.pdf | ||
| Court |
Sound familiar to anybody? At least I've always, in the 6 years I've been using the quote, properly attributed it to Steve Jobs.  | ||
| 99buellx1 |
And what exactly does that involve? | ||
| Eboos |
I think it means that he bought an expensive hat. | ||
| Court |
>>>And what exactly does that involve? Gosh I just went to their website, signed up. Mostly just, having been through the same chronology of events over the years, I wanted to be getting all the updates. Plus the hat they sent me is cool. | ||
| Jscott |
"Sound familiar to anybody?" I new you'd enjoy that one, Court.  | ||
| Court |
To truly appreciate the impact of what Jobs was saying you really need to read ORGANIZING GENIUS. Few folks, I believe, truly appreciate how genius works. Many mistake the gift of genius as little more than a high IQ or great grades. Both, through related, correlate less rigidly than one may assume. To understand Jobs, what he did and that quote you need to have an appreciation for PARC and what was happening. Zeitgeist? Perhaps. That theory constantly competes with the "Great Man" theory. Was it the "right person" or just the "right time". Don't get me started. . . you'd be better off to ask Blake an engineering question. Creative collaboration is my "thing". | ||
| Bomber |
PARC -- Bell Labs Lockheed's Skunkworks -- very cool places, cooler people, great environments -- we cold use more of the same | ||
| Jayvee |
As far a making motorcycles, that Britten guy seems to have done a lot more with a lot le$$. | ||
| Rocketman |
Not all geniuses ship, but more importantly one doesn't have to be a genius to ship anything. Moto Czysz will ship. The important question would not be when, but for how long. With that in mind, when they fail to succeed in their ambitious plan, which is probably what they're hidden agenda is anyway, they will succeed at a lesser level, which is more likely what they really intend to do wouldn't you think? For how long and how many they can hold out for who knows, but if they produce any Moto Czysz's at all they will have shipped, though there will be those that still say no they haven't. The Moto Czysz is nothing short of fabulous as a motorcycle and I'd like to hear what EB thinks of the Moto C as just a motorcycle. I'd buy one. Mr Buell no doubt will. Rocket | ||
| Elvis |
I honestly don't get the comparison to Erik Buell. It seems like he's got more in common with Paris Hilton than Erik B. | ||
| Eboos |
I really don't want to see Michael Czysz's night vision video. Although, that may be one way to get investors. (Message edited by eboos on September 05, 2006) | ||
| Court |
>>>>As far a making motorcycles, that Britten guy seems to have done a lot more with a lot le$$. That's a very inaccurate statement. | ||
| Blake |
Sean, I'd like to hear what EB thinks of the Moto C as just a motorcycle. A statement something to the effect of "that thing has way too much wrong with it to ever be competitive on a race track" comes to mind. I'm probably toning that down a bit. | ||
| José_quiñones |
The comparison with Buell is because of the rule changes making their upcoming race bikes obsolete/without a market. Buell had it happen to him when the AMA ended Formula 1 and went to Superbike as the premier class. Formula 1 bikes used to run the Daytona 200, but safety issues similar to today's were a big reason for the change. Likewise, MotoGP is going to 800 cc bikes next year, so this American 990 cc prototype bike is no longer eligible. Other than that the stories are not that similar. | ||
| Rocketman |
I think Mr Buell knew we'd never get to find out. But Jose might be wrong. I read somewhere that the FIM are thinking of allowing some 990cc bikes to run next season, but I can't remember how they were going to allow it to happen. Doh. Rocket | ||
| José_quiñones |
intake restrictors. That way the current bikes could still be raced and help to 'fill out' the grids and make it easier for the smaller less funded teams to race. | ||
| 12r |
thinking of allowing some 990cc bikes to run next season As of Jan 1 2007 MotoGP is 800 cc only. And no two-strokes either boo-hoo  The regs http://www.fim.ch/en/default.asp?item=26# make interesting reading | ||
| Elvis |
But Jose', how long has it been known that Moto-GP would go to 800 cc? I've known about it for a looooong time. They fired the engine up for the first time in July. If they were really serious about going after Moto-GP, they would have been designing an 800 cc from the start. That just seems like an excuse so they can go against easier competition in AMA. The problem with AMA is homolgation is designed specifically to keep bikes like this out. Sure they bent the rules for Harley, but that was with Harley bringing millions of potential fans to the table. Plus Harley's bike didn't use the kind of exotic carbon fiber parts that could make this bike a ringer in AMA (and again is the reason for homolgation). Plus the whole Harley thing wasn't exactly a shining moment in AMA history. Plus Harley didn't tell everyone they were going after Moto-GP and then just jump to AMA when they realized the Prom Queen wouldn't go out with them. Since Moto-C is marketing this as a pure racing bike, they better put together a more cohesive strategy than they currently have or the money is likely to dry up. At the very least, they should get it out into some club races. This is 2006. They told us they'd be racing Moto-GP in 2006. Is it too much to ask that they put it on a track somewhere? | ||
| Jscott |
I think they are still trying to get one in as a wild-card entry for one of the remaining MotoGP races this year. Hopefully they will be able to make it. Only five rounds left to make it happen. (Message edited by JScott on September 06, 2006) | ||
| Jayvee |
Court, can you explain please? I don't think Britten spent $250,000 a month, as you say Czsyz is, and yet a few Britten bikes actually got built, at least a couple actually got raced. What was inaccurate, in the context of this discussion? Your declaration doesn't shed much light. | ||
| Blake |
Jayvee, I think Court may have misinterpreted your remark as being a commentary on Britten versus Buell instead of the intended Britten versus Czysz. JScott, That the Czysz would or could make the grid for a MotoGP race, let alone this year is a ridiculous pipe dream. You make it sound like making the field for a MotoGP race is merely a matter of showing up with a motorcycle. The bike hasn't even been on a track yet! They just got the engine to turn over and run for a minute. Has it even been installed into a chassis yet?  This kind of silliness would be funny if it weren't so utterly tragic. It's easy to see why some folks become so quickly disappointed with the Buell XBRR efforts in AMA Formula Xtreme this year. | ||
| Court |
>>>I think Court may have misinterpreted your remark as being a commentary on Britten versus Buell instead of the intended Britten versus Czysz. That's accurate. I misread the statement and accordingly apologize. Britten certainly did much more/$$$ than Czyz, to the extent that's a usable measure of anything. John Britten is more interesting, with some good and some bad components, than many are aware. I first became interested and having dinner with a friend, who owns a Britten, and Kirsteen Britten. Later I began banging into facts that did not coincide and I started digging deeper, while doing some research for a book, when I discovered TWO, essentially diametrically opposed, books chronicling his life. When the first one got a little "too honest", his family quickly engaged Kirsteen's cousin and had her write their OWN book which pretty much creates the "artsy genius" aura. It's not an accurate book, in my opinion. Sorry for the confusion. Books written about folks who build motorcycle companies should be, to the greatest extent possible, accurate historically and convey the "ups and downs", not written to satisfy a marketing need or fill gaps in the public persona. Court | ||
| Jscott |
Blake, your such a naysayer! Start thinking about the glass half-full versus half-empty, dude! Anyway, I didn't indicate as to whether I thought it would be possible, just relaying their hopes. It's all in the RoadRacingWorld article (hint last paragraph of page 139 continued over to 140). It's OK you can read it, it's not blasphemy or anything. Sam Fleming thinks they can do it. "It's easy to see why some folks become so quickly disappointed with the Buell XBRR efforts in AMA Formula Xtreme this year." Maybe I did have High expectations for the XBRR this year. I prefer that to having low expectations like yourself. Also I didn't suddenly set my expectations based on hindsight like so many around here. As a warning for next year: I'll have High expectations again because I think Buell can succeed. Oh and GO Buell!! (Message edited by JScott on September 07, 2006) |
