| Author | Message | ||
     M1combat |
Read the ________ thread a little closer Jim... Get a grip on who said what and then type. The XBRR got another good review and you're seeing red. Sit back, relax, drink a beer and then read what was said again. Come back when you figure it out. I don't expect a response... I rarely get one from you  . | ||
| Rocketman |
Zemke's and Miguel's bikes differ greatly, and neither can ride the other's bike. Faggots! Give me their damn bikes. I can ride anything without complaint and my fees are much less. Rocket | ||
| Court |
>>>I am not violently attacking the article about the XBRR That may be true. But you are writing in a very condescending, argumentative and incendiary manner. Just for fun, did you learn anything from the article that you didn't previously know? That's one of the reasons I read, as opposed to micro-dissection of an article, a letter or a paper to point out things that are wrong. It's more an attitude. I suppose, at this moment, I'm taking a break, kind of like resting on a plateau as you climb a mountain, and celebrating the fact that Buell actually designed and is racing a motorcycle. I doubt few folks truly appreciate the magnitude of where we presently are. I don't expect many, other than old time insiders, to be sharing this expereience with me, but I'd invite you to see the program in a bit more positive manner. To rephrase, I am ecstatic about the fact that there EVEN IS an article about a test of a Buell racing motorcycle. The internet is a funny place. Folks are decrying the 2007 Buells with ABSOLUTELY NO information on what they actually are. One girl in Florida is decrying Bells, Buell owners, Buell events and flailing at anything she can find because she has a personality conflict with her dealer. Buell, I'd submit, is held to much higher standards. I don't think we intend to do this, but it sure seemed obvious at Daytona. With the impressive qualifying, there was sigh of relief when the Buells were out of the race. The "we told you so" line seemed, during those early laps, like it might not be available to them. Negative is easier to write and to argue than positive. Negative, frankly, is K-Mart cheap. I like hanging in the positive arena. You meet neater folks, I'm more challenged in what I write and I have more fun. Try rereading the article and challenge yourself to LEARN one thing, rather than simply to find an "aha...I got'em now" tidbit. | ||
| Jscott |
I learned that the tail section is made for midgets. I wonder If they could make it deeper, but have formed extensions in a couple of sizes that still conform to the aerodynamics, but could be detatched as needed for different sized riders. Unfortunately Shawn Reily is so big he might just have to settle for an old school banana seat.  Somewhat positive? (Message edited by JScott on July 12, 2006) | ||
| Glitch |
Too bad Jim is trying to ruin a good time for Buell fans. Because one is a Buell fan means not one thinks a Buell is the be all end all of motorcycles. It merely means one likes Buell, or Buell is their favorite bike. So what? Why try and kill someone's buzz because you have a different opinion? I understand not the people that feel they must deride all things Buell. The XBRR got another good review and you're seeing red. I'll bet that's Honda Red!  | ||
| Jscott |
"Why try and kill someone's buzz because you have a different opinion?" Are those that sometimes have differing opinions no longer welcome? I have a gut feeling that things will be looking up for Buell at Laguna. The press release that actually used the wording "with the support of Buell Motorcycle Company" is good news for "AMA" Buell race fans. (Message edited by JScott on July 12, 2006) | ||
| M1combat |
We aren't talking about an opinion Jscott. We're talking about someone reading words that just simply aren't contained in posts and then taking the post authors to task over the imagined content. It's argumentative (as opposed to participating in a debate), dishonest and or dishonorable. I've got NO issues with people not believing in the "cause". I do most certainly take sharp issue with someone who makes comments that are patently false, dishonest, negative for negativity's sake, trollish and used as bait to piss people off. It used to piss me off a couple years ago  . Now I have enough ammunition that I can back my claims up with absolute certainty. That said... I don't make too many claims of my own. I just look for ones that sound like a bent tuning fork and point out the fact. Jim is a bent tuning fork is all . The real problem is that he bent himself . | ||
| Jima4media |
I thought the article was a good first impression of the XBRR, from a racer with no prior knowledge of the Blackhawk Farms track. Ulrich is someone who usually rides Suzukis, and has that bias going for him. It wasn't a comparison of the XBRR and the Honda 600RR, and anyone reading that into the article or reviews of the article is mistaken. The brakes and handling were never directly compared. In racing you don't get a trophy for how well a bike feels or handles, and there is no trophy for braking. The only thing that counts is a stopwatch, and how fast you can get around a track. Oh, and red is faster than blue, unless Mladin and Spies are riding it, and yellow is faster than red, but only when Rossi is riding it, and not injured. | ||
| M1combat |
"The brakes and handling were never directly compared. " I didn't ask if they were compared. I just asked if he said that the brakes and handling were good. You still haven't answered me. I suppose I should have just renewed my subscription last month like I was going to and then I wouldn't require your answer... Well, that or you could just accept the fact that someone who matters likes the bike ... Then I wouldn't have to ask . Yeah, yeah, yeah.... And green is just bad luck. | ||
| Ezblast |
It was a great review, all thats needed is for someone to finish a race in first place - it sounds like the tool is there. GT - JBOTDS! EZ  | ||
| Diablobrian |
jim4media said "It was Diablobrian and Blake that wrote about how great the brakes were in that article, and there was nothing like that in the actual article." Nothing like that in the article? pg 4 " The single perimeter brake rotor accompanied by the eight piston brake caliper provided good feed back"} This is in context of a REAL racer on a REAL track in comparison to other REAL race bikes. If he didn't think they were up to the task he would have said so. "Good feedback" in comparison to radial mount brembos is huge praise thank you very much. I was very careful to not add my own bias to what was there. I quoted or paraphrased, even including the criticisms, which were few. I did not cut and paste the entire article out of respect for the People at RRW. Speaking of which, I encourage everyone to get a subscription to the magazine. there is a lot of info in it that you don't see on the website. My thanks to Chris Ulrich http://roadracingworld.com | ||
| Diablobrian |
Oh yeah and I guess when Chris Ulrich wrote (on pg. 95) "The Buell Firebolt XB-RR is fast, handles well, and is fully capable of turning competitive lap times around a racetrack" No slant from me. A direct quote, in context. It was really a code for " this bike is much slower than the japanese bikes" At least in Jim4media's world. | ||
| Blake |
Again... | ||
| M1combat |
Ditto . Thanks Erik and all of the engineers and assemblers and anyone else who lost even one second of sleep in the hopes that the XBRR would hold a candle to the expectations of those of us who want an American Sportbike to root for. Thank you. You've done well and apparently chosen the correct path to kick it off. I'll keep watching with an open mind, patience and a BURNING desire to one day let the clutch out on a running XBRR. Good job. | ||
| Jima4media |
Donald, Here is your answer. Ulrich didn't say whether the brakes were good or not. He say they provided good feedback. That is the only thing he said about the brakes. He did like the handling of the XBRR. He said overall he thought the Buell handled better than the Honda in every part of the turn and the feedback the Buell gave was much easier to digest. Of course, my criticism of that comparison is that it was two different tracks on two different days, with neither bike set up to his liking. He also said it is going to take Jeremy McWilliams or Steve Crevier beating other FX riders to convince them that the Buell XBRR is the real deal. Ulrich said the XBRR a capable of turning competitive lap times, but it hasn't yet. It qualified 8th at Daytona, 11th at Infineon, and 14th at Road America. That trendline is down, not up. Laguna Seca is Eric Bostrom's home track, and Jason DiSalvo does well there also. Both are on Yamaha R6s. We'll have see what kind of success the Buell teams have at Laguna Seca in another week. (Message edited by jima4media on July 12, 2006) | ||
| M1combat |
Agreed . I can't wait. I'm not "expecting" a win, but I damn well am "hoping" for one . "Of course, my criticism of that comparison is that it was two different tracks on two different days, with neither bike set up to his liking. " You know... That whole thing about both bikes not being setup for him does sorta even the field just a tad though. It's not like he said "I like the way the RR handles but only because I couldn't set up the CBR." I certainly see your point though... Thanks for the answer for sure... I was getting a little worried... For the record... McWilliams likes them. I know his feeling are not contained in this article but his feelings are that they are the closest to Moto-GP brakes that can be had w/o going to a full carbon/carbon Moto-GP setup. Heck... Even GREG mentioned the fact that he was surprised at just how deep McWilliams was getting on the brakes. Of course you're talking about a ton of skill there too, but that's another endorsement for the brakes if you ask me. Anyway... It seems to me like Buell has gotten to the meat of the ball. It just may be out of the park. Depends on a lot of factors. One of course being a long term commitment and another being just the right portion of luck. I personally feel that we'll see the latter at the least. There's been enough bad luck so far that they've got to have some good comeing their way... Anyway... That was much less violent , thanks. | ||
| Blake |
"Ulrich didn't say whether the brakes were good or not. He said they provided good feedback." The brakes provided good feedback." I cannot imagine a statement that more definitively characterizes brakes as "good." That coupled with the various FX racer's statements to me that the brakes were "good", one MotoGP racer even going so far as to put their characteristics close to those of MotoGP machines, well, what the heck are you trying to argue here Jim? I just don't get it. I know your X1 was a POS. Is that what this is about?  Seriously, I just don't get it. "Good feedback" sure seems like "good" to me. Unless it is concerning a Buell motorcycle I guess.  GOOD GRIEF! | ||
| Blake |
Don, you wuss!  Can't believe you were going to let Jim get away with that silliness. | ||
| Jima4media |
Blake, In the past I have said I thought the performance of the 8-piston ZTL2 brakes were good. In this thread I said "I'll give you the performance of the ZTL2 brakes." But you can't give up can you? You just want an argument. You take the statement "brakes provided good feedback" and turn it into this - "The story on the brakes particularly is so very gratifying. As Chris Ulrish also observes, all four professional racers/riders (Mike Cicotto, Steve Crevier, Jeremy McWilliams and yes even Don Canet) at TWS when I asked them how the brakes performed gave them a solid thumbs up. Jeremy, being ever the extremely thoughtful and analytical professional, expounded further; he equated the ZTL-2 braking performance to being in his experience most akin to that of Moto-GP bikes and less like more conventional Superbike brakes that are less aggressive in nature. I reckon this will twist up the naysayers into all kinds of knots of denial. But it is the cold hard truth. You DESIGNED AND built a $30K FX racing machine that outhandles and outbrakes the $300,000+ FX machines of the big factories! " Brian said this: "CU: loved the brakes" - Ulrich never said anything of the kind. McWilliams was quoted as saying in another article in the same issue of RRW "The XB-RR's lack of a slipper clutch caused the bike to back itself into corners, forcing him to brake earlier than we would have liked.He also said the bike was hard to 'flip-flop' through the esses and the turn nine chicane." What is it with you guys and these brakes? (Message edited by jima4media on July 13, 2006) | ||
| M1combat |
Its the fact that people like you have pushed on them so hard and are wrong. You've put us on the defensive. We know they're good. People who don't accept that are ignorant yet they continue to spout their BS. so yeah... "The story on the brakes particularly is so very gratifying." There's a mindset that creeps out in peoples comments WRT the XB. That mind set tells me about the person. It tells me they don't have an open mind. It tells me that they've made their decisions about motorcycles based on the ones they bought. They're un-willing to accept the FACT that the grass may indeed be greener in parts of the other guys yard... This is what makes me LITERALLY laugh out loud when people tell ME that I drink too much cuell-aid. They tell me that just after telling me how much my brakes suck. Or after telling me that the ZTL system isn't any lighter than the competition (then they go weigh what THEY believe to be the competition (in this case an '04 R1...) and find... The ZTL system is a little lighter. Then they proceed to say "well it's not 8 pounds.". Who said it was? Then they say things like "There's no way the XB can keep up with a well ridden 1000 in a canyon." but they REFUSE to accept the fact that I'VE done it and that it's happened in reports in magazines. They block out the good that the XB is capable of. It pisses me off. One day a guy by the name of Chris who happens to be a very important person in the industry says good things about the XBRR and someone has to walk in and say "Well, they arent' THAT good."... Whatever... Oh and... What is it with us guys and these brakes? We're right. That's all. | ||
| M1combat |
Oh and... Blake didn't take that comment and turn it into your brilliant quote... He took that comment combined with other comments from people who make a ••••••• LIVING off of racing motorcycles (some of which have done VERY well for themselves at the TOP) and put them together to back up CU's claims. But I guess they're "not THAT good" right? "I'll give you the performance of the ZTL2 brakes." Thanks, but I don't think I'll be needing you to give me anything. I already know. What about the rest? You'll only give me the brakes? What about the handling? "He did like the handling of the XBRR. " Wanna give me that one too? | ||
| Jima4media |
OK, I'll give you good handling too. Are good handling and good brakes good enough to win races? | ||
| Blake |
Hey Jim. Just repeating what the pros told me. Sorry that bothers you. | ||
| M1combat |
"Are good handling and good brakes good enough to win races?" Well... They're in the upper part of the top four things required for it as I recall . I was at Daytona sitting about 100 yards past T1. I could see all but about 30' of the back "straight". It looked to me like McWilliams wasn't losing much time there at all (like NONE that I could really see). What I'm saying is... Buell seems to be on the ball. It's a long one and we'll have to see exactly where it lands. My bet is indeed on domination of the privateer classes and on competitiveness in the FX class. Competition is good. So anyway... from now on Jim's "party line" is "The Buell XBRR handles and stops good" yes? I'm glad you agree with me . GO BUELL ! In case you were wondering... I'm sure you already know though... Handling is by FAR the most difficult part to get right. As I said... Looks to me like Buell is off to a good start in a good direction . So much for "The Box" eh? (Message edited by M1Combat on July 13, 2006) (Message edited by M1Combat on July 13, 2006) | ||
| Jima4media |
Don, Yes, My "Party Line" is that the Buell XBRR handles and stops good. However - Honda, Yamaha, Suzuki and Kawasaki 600s can go around a race course faster than a Buell XBRR, up to this date. Will you agree with that statement? (Message edited by jima4media on July 14, 2006) | ||
| Diablobrian |
"Honda, Yamaha, Suzuki and Kawasaki 600s can go around a race course faster than a Buell XBRR, up to this date." That one I'll agree with | ||
| M1combat |
Of course... Look at the numbers. | ||
| Blake |
"However - Honda, Yamaha, Suzuki and Kawasaki 600s can go around a race course faster than a Buell XBRR, up to this date." The correct form of that statement is... However - Unobtainable $300K+ (Japan Inc.) 600cc FX machines in combination with their multimillion dollar teams and dedicated full-time racing development programs including numerous extensive testing and evaluation sessions, have up to this date lapped quicker than the Buell XBRR, a $30K bike that is available to serious professional racers worldwide and that is just now making its debut onto the national racing scene so far only in privateer efforts with extremely limited resources. (Message edited by Blake on July 14, 2006) | ||
| Diablobrian |
Ok, I do like Blake's version better. | ||
| Jima4media |
Where did the $300,000 figure come from by the way? I seriously doubt most of the privateer teams in FX have that much into their bikes. |
