| Author | Message | ||
     Ryker77 |
To me politcs is or should be a simple math problem. So when I heard about this guest worker program, I looked at the math involved. I like solid real numbers which is why spelling and gramer will never be my strong point. The Bush and Co plan is to allow 12millions illegals to be put on a 6 year "guest worker" program. Then after 6 years IF: they paid back taxes, 2,000 fine, learned english, didn't break the law and pass a background check. They then would be able to apply for full citzenship. Here is the math. There are 3.3 million people from other countries legally waiting in line to come to the USA. It is estimated it will take 6 years to process those 3.3 million. After 6 years they would then start with the illegals-- guest workers. If it took 6 years per 3 million. I would take another 12 years to turn the "6 year" "guest worker" into a citizen. 6 years + 12 years= 18 years. So we will still be dealing with this nearly 20 years from now. Laws- illegals don't just break the border laws, false ID's, mail fraud, credit fraud, don't pay hospital bills, false govt documents, false drivers license, fake insurance, tax evasion.. Etc etc. So Bush would be giving amnesty for a whole list of crimes, some of whichs are felony. BTW were are those "jobs American's won't do" ? Becuase in the past I've done many of them. Flipped burgers, cleaned restrooms, built chicken houses, etc. Nowdays I couldn't get hired at some places becuase I don't speak spanish. | ||
| Cowboy |
I guess I am just to hard nosed the border crossing could be stoped with a 50 cal. as for as those jobs they say no american will do, if we stopped some of those damn welfare checks they would get done.I am not very P C and dont give a damn. | ||
| Ryker77 |
.50 is too $$$. 7.62mm would be the cost effective method.  | ||
| Outrider |
With all the US jobs outsourced to China, I think we already have too many American's to fill the remaining jobs here. Like there is a large number of folks like myself that took early retirement or simply dropped off the Stats after their unemployment ran out as our chosen professions evaporated in the US. To top that off, until all these new promising careers are created and people trained to enter them, we won't be needing to import any laborers. We will need those with advanced intellect and connections which means we will be sourcing China for their Talent. Just an Opinion and definitely one you won't read about in the press or hear about from either party. Simply remember it as the years roll on. You see, we are already experiencing it here in the US, but we just haven't figured it out yet compliments of a little greed. | ||
| Jamhamm |
america the beautiful you can't fault anyone for wanting to be a part of this great nation you can fault this great nation for some of its seedier misgivings... problem is... wait, that the problem - problems... from low to high america has its wiles... and the best deception... us americans  it's my understanding that you can only comprehend when you've stood on both sides of the ball [o and d] until then, you're argument will always be a very valued opinion not bashing anyone or anything - just indicating that it's easy to be an american looking out i wonder what it would be like to look in from the outside? -sau | ||
| Jayvee |
The whole amnesty thing is WRONG. The reason to get them to register and become a GUEST Worker, is so they know they can COME AND GO. They will go home to see the wife and kids, knowing they can easily come back and get the stoop labor job picking lettuce that nobody else will do for those wages. They can come here and earn a bunch of money, build their house in Mexico, and then when they get enough money, or get tired of it, they can leave, go home and retire in their own (cheaper to line in) country. There is NO WAY they can afford to buy a house, etc, in California on the wages they earn. But they want to stay here once they get here, because it's so damn hard for them to get here. If we made it easy and legal for them to come, they would leave, from time to time, and eventually for good (individually, not collectively). | ||
| Ryker77 |
" knowing they can easily come back and get the stoop labor job picking lettuce that nobody else will do for those wages." Once the 12 million become legal-- they will then take legal jobs. Jobs away from middle class Americans (GM,Walmart, etc). The 12 million more illegals will need to comein to fill those empty low paying jobs. | ||
| Bugman |
Go find another board. This ain't for political/social gripes. | ||
| Blake |
What Bugman said. | ||
| Ryker77 |
Some of the current postings on this section right now. Cats Dogs Arrests fin texas for drinking while intoxicated. Quad For Sale Gillette Fusion Power razor review Windows Browser Security Alert... March 23 2006 OK, WHAT DO WE THINK OF THE SCION? Soccermoms, Schmockermoms... Animal lovers beware My new girlfriend. about dogs Why is it people take the time to post pictures of there dogs. But are too lazy to take a stand for a real issue? | ||
| Bcordb3 |
I was wondering if you were going to make this one go away. Like Bugman said. | ||
| Seanp |
Everybody can agree that Dogs rule! And we deal with politics every day (if you watch the news) in real life. I come here to have fun, discuss motorcycles, and get away from real life. I get caught up in arguments sometimes, but ultimately it just pisses me off because it's nonsensical - nobody is going to change their opinion due to what they read on BadWeb. So why put forth the energy, other than to just broadcast your own thoughts in the hope that someone will think, "My God, he's brilliant!" Use that energy to try to figure out a way to fix the kickstand on the Uly, or to figure out a way to raise funding for Daytona 2007... | ||
| Ryker77 |
watching the news is hardly "real life". | ||
| Seanp |
It is when you're as far removed from "real life" in the US as I am.  | ||
| Brucelee |
I suggest writing and re-writing to your lawmakers and the President. To the politicos it is not about what is right for the US, it is about votes. They are shit scared to offend the Hispanic voter. Or, any voter for that matter. Show them that you are offended by allowing criminals to be rewarded for their behavior. That includes the US employers who knowingly hire them. | ||
| Thin_air |
Annex Mexico or as it would be known South Texas. We need the natural resources and look at all that beach front. While we are at it annex Canada or North Washington. This country was built by taking shit from people, lets not forget our roots.  | ||
| Skyguy |
seanP I have to disagree with your statement: "nobody is going to change their opinion due to what they read on BadWeb." I used to think the Buell Blast was a total piece of crap. Now I recognize it as a fine little thumper. Mind changed!  | ||
| Cowboy |
I dont think this thread is ment to be Political, if you will read the 1st word it is ILLEGAL. It is simple to me you eather condone out side the law or want things with in the law. | ||
| Voltage_vector |
As it has been said, Illegal is Illegal. I can certainly understand why someone would want to leave some of these other places. Having been to many, nothing is better than feeling the tires thump back down on a runway in the good old USA. But the illegal behavior can not/should not be rewarded. It is a slap in the face to the millions who have waited, and suffered to enter the US using proper channels. If you entered by what ever means, and for what ever reasons and it is so important for them to come here for their famlies' well being, do it right or face the already on the books laws. Yes the numbers are huge. Yes there are tons of special cases. But everyone of the persons involved KNEW what they were doing with the exceptions of infants, in the arms of parents who knew. This is not a problem that will be fixed in a month. Close the boarders...HARD, now. Stop additional persons/problems. Then address the ongoing issues of each case based on its merits, and act. Either grant some form of work permit, if proof can be shown there has been no criminal behavior,(other than the entry, or Visa expiration) prove they have been working, pay a fine, and pay back taxes. Then get in the back of the line for citizenship. Hey guess what, it will take a long time. You might have to travel back to your old country and touch base to get the visa re-activated. If your investigations show other non desirable activity, your gone. Period. Don't come back, or it's jail time, then you get sent back anyway after you did your time. Just like nearly every other country in the world. There is also the issue of the folks who pay these folks and turn a blind eye, and propagate the problem by not requiring a real ID when they put these people to work. We Americans have some blame here too. It is called the dollar. If it was not so easy to get a job with out your proper numbers, perhaps it would not be so attractive to sneak in. There seems to me, a quick and easy place to start. Having a wife who waited two years for a Visa to come here, and nearly ten years of solid work and hassle to get her U.S.Citizenship, I think I understand all sides of the problem. But the law is the law. You break it willingly, you pay the price. Am I wrong. Would any of you expect any different if you committed a crime of what ever severity in another country? As I'm writing this, my immigrant, U.S. Naturalize Citizen wife leaning over my shoulder is in 100% agreement. My .02 worth.  | ||
| Cowboy |
Att.Voltage I have one of those wifes too. We followed all the rules. now by god so can every one else. | ||
| Aldaytona |
Leave it to our government to miss an opportunity to easily round up thousands of Illegal Aliens earlier this week. All the rallies and demonstrations staged around the country it would have been too easy and cost so little..................  | ||
| Ducxl |
i'm with "thinair". If the Mexican government is sooooo corrupt(just listen to the Federales stories)and inept we should run it for them.Collect taxes,and reap the benefits of their OIL! But then the border problem would be farther south.Shut our border down HARD!Militarily,that's the answer. and grant the Lawbreakers amnesty.Illegal is illegal i know,but there are MILLIONS of them,MY GOD! I've been watching this thread so long i had to post. | ||
| Voltage_vector |
Cowboy, By God yes! The small fortune we had to pay, the attitude we had to endure...the long time (years) of waiting I left those INS offices many times mad enough to... well best not said. Aldaytona, boy the ACLU would have loved that!  That would have been beautiful! But then who would have done Alec Baldwins lawn? | ||
| Wardan123 |
My initial response was slightly different... I wondered about the status of the "guest worker" and who they would be. Aren't the proponents of this bill validating a US caste system by listing specific undesireable jobs and then offering them to what would be a clearly defined sub-citizen group of people? And on that note, if a "citizen" does a job alongside the "guest worker", what does that say about the "citizen"? Is it possible for them to have pride? I have done a lot of "$hit" work and taken jobs that no one else wanted because I had a limited education at the time, wanted or needed the money, and I am not afraid of hard work. I knew what I was doing would not be done by many of my friends, neighbors, nor fellow citizens, but I needed work and I am capable. Did I like it? No. Would I do it again... If I had to, yes. As a merchant, landlord, employer, etc. if some one shows you a guest worker ID vs. a state ID will they get equal treatment? While, a patron is a patron, and all are treated equal at many establishments, would knowing the guy/gal in front of me has to be out of country in three mos. going to change treatment or considerations? I think so... I also wonder about the people granted these work cards. By what logic would people be awarded the card? Lottery, skills and resume, education, nepotism, or would political debts have to be paid? Nafta opened trade in a huge way between us and many southern countries- do we owe them consideration or do they owe us cheap labor? China holds the note for our deficit- some 10 trillion dollars, could they "ask" that their people be considered as "guests" first? What is wrong with us as Americans rolling up our shirt-sleeves and doing our own dirty work, taking care of us, and not finding ourselves beholding to others for awhile? Thanks for giving me a place to voice my feelings | ||
| Ryker77 |
"Thanks for giving me a place to voice my feelings" also tell it to these places www.numbersusa.com http://www.numbersusa.com/fax www.vote.com www.senate.gov | ||
| Ryker77 |
1776-1819 6,500/yr. Average New Nation Tradition: The new nation was trying to populate Eastern frontiers. 1820-1879 160,000/yr. Average Continental Expansion Tradition: Immigration was used to encourage settlement of all frontiers from the Atlantic to the Pacific; driving Indians into reservations, virtually eliminating the buffalo/grasslands ecology of the Prairies and all but small tracts of Wilderness. 1880-1924 580,000/yr. Average Great Wave/Robber Baron Tradition: The Robber Barons of the Guilded Age of rapid industrial expansion imported massive amounts of foreign labor instead of employing America’s freed slaves (keeping most on Southern plantations). With a plentiful supply of immigrant workers, the Robber Barons were able to avoid many productivity investments and gains, depressing the rise of wages of most Americans while successfully busting unions. They used their political clout to block repeated attempts in Congress to lower immigration back toward previous Traditional levels. 1925-1965 180,000/yr. Average RISE OF MIDDLE CLASS Reacting to excesses of the Great Wave, Congress limited numbers to the previous Tradition. The resulting tight-labor market allowed most Americans to move into the Middle Class for the first time and made possible the Civil Rights Movement. 1965- 1989 500,000/yr. Average Post-1965 Chain Migration Tradition: Accidentally started by a 1965 Act intended primarily to make it easier for Asians to compete for immigration slots. President Kennedy proposed it, promising no new wave of immigrants, saying there were no new frontiers to populate or massive factories needing unskilled labor. But opening family-chain migration into all the world, without hard numerical caps, flooded the country with numbers nearly as high as the Great Wave. 1990-2005 1,000,000/yr. Average New Robber Baron Tradition: Industries became addicted to cheap foreign labor, and a growing class of affluent Americans depended on a foreign servant class. Together, they kept immigration at double Great Wave levels of a century earlier, even as many Americans’ occupations collapsed declined below Middle Class standards. | ||
| Blake |
I think all Americans should set a date and parade around in unison displaying Mexican flags in thanks for their donation of TX, NM, AZ, CO, NV, and CA to the union. Viva La México! | ||
| Ryker77 |
I think most of them are trying to un-donate that area. Besides they (mexico) are better off giving the land to America. Now they get to live in the same area and GET PAID via food stamps, WIC, welfare etc etc. | ||
| Brucelee |
Using Blake's logic, we should also be flying English flags, you know, thanking them for donating all that land to us. On a more serious note, why is there even a debate on what to do with folks who knowingly broke the law and continue to do so everyday. To wit, when I am here illegally, you can bet I am NOT paying federal income taxes (on average). Now, if you or I don't pay our taxes, well, the MAN comes and takes us away. So, in a country where we prize the rule of law, why is the issue about what to do with the illegals even an question. Now, the how of this is more interesting. Seems we are willing to lock up any and all sort of "drug offenders" but not willing to lock up folks who break the law for years on end. We are also not willing to lock up those who help them stay here, ie employers, friends, etc. Shoot, we even pay for their healthcare. I can't get anyone in the government to pay for mine. What's the deal? Does anyone see any hypocrisy here? | ||
| Voltage_vector |
Brucelee...yes I see it. |
