| Author | Message | ||
     Blake |
Ceejay, Excellent point and 100% true! A lead-acid automotive type battery does indeed self-discharge more rapidly in higher temperatures. Tramp, Mountains out of mole-hills methinks. Maybe you missed the "...you are a very knowledgeable man" part of Pammy's statement? She's an honest woman; implying she'd adopt and proffer a disingenuous view in order to help sell a few battery tenders is way uncool. She merely disagrees with your view, and based upon the information Ceejay presented, there may be good reason; you are each on solid ground. I'd wager that a battery's self-discharge rate in a cold basement or garage in Wintertime NY is about nill compared to if it was in a bike sitting outside during the Florida or Texas Summer. Some more interesting pertinent info...
Buell motorcycles utilize gel batteries!  More... 
| ||
| Bomber |
well, there's ONE good reason I can think of to cover the negative cable end once it's removed form the battery -- wires develop a memory, for lack of a better term, and become less flxible, specially in the cold (like, o, winter?). I have often seen the negative cable, once disconnected from the negative battery terminal, slowly ease back toward the terminal, seemingly yearning to allow renewed electron flow -- I have disconnected the neg cable a couple of times, move over to the other side of the bike to remove the positive (knowing full well that I had disconnected the neg) and surprised myself, as the neg cable had snuggled back up to the neg terminal when giving advice to a wrench-spinning novice (as CJ is, bless her heart), I always figure belt and suspenders, both, is a good policy as for the other kvetching regarding battery life, handling and like that, each to his/her own . . . .. | ||
| Pammy |
"New batteries stay on the shelf for months before being sold and they work fine for me." Typically, they don't set on the shelf with acid in them. There are exceptions though.  Tramp...I also sell batteries and regulator/rectifiers and service for both...so my motivation should be for shorter battery life and overtaxing the charging system by using it to charge a low battery when you could simply put a charger on it and be done with it. Now gettin' my motivations all screwed up like that, I guess, would make me shy a few more brain cells than you think. "AFTER slamming my experience-sharing she states: "Before you blast me...keep in mind what I do." You've jumped timing there, bud. I don't see where I "slammed" you at all. For a "1%'r" you sure do have thin skin. The reason that I said your advice was "not good", is because putting a battery that has been sitting/discharging for 5 months can potentially damage the charging system of a motorcycle. "incidentally, keeping a tender on a connected battery is the least prudent of all scenarios, as the continuity is still there, causing a constant drain and charge situation which is unneccesary in a disconnected battery, and which keeps a constant charge in all related components which promotes oxidation of connections and areas of unlike metallic contact...silicone dielectric grease or not. " What, pray tell, do you think is happening when you drive your bike with your battery attached? I have no desire to argue with you...well actually, I am not that put out, but you insist on forcing your "experiences" down the throats of others and I think that folks should get competent answers to their valid questions so they can make the best decision for themselves. I have NEVER solicited business from anyone here and I imagine that you would find a few folks whom I have helped, free of charge, with absolutely no strings attached. I own/ride a Buell.(THAT is why I am here) I own/ride other bikes as well. I maintain my Buell and the other bikes. I have been doing so since I was a teenager. I am not angry and I am certainly not surprised at your reaction. If I sound harsh, let me apologize. As my intention is not to incite you but to offer my professional advice to a legitimate question. | ||
| Pammy |
And for those who do not wish to read the above, unabridged, version of my diatribe... The condensed version is: Kvetch, kvetch, kvetch. I am Queen. Kvetch, kvetch, kvetch...  | ||
| CJXB |
I like the condensed version !!  | ||
| Djkaplan |
"Typically, they don't set on the shelf with acid in them. There are exceptions though." At the local Harley/Buell dealership, all the batteries are sealed from the factory and sold in sealed boxes. | ||
| Rocketman |
You've all missed a fundamental point here. LA batteries are less efficient as temps drop. I believe a fully charged battery would be about 50% so at zero degrees. Rocket | ||
| Pammy |
DJ,You are correct, and that would be one of the aforementioned exceptions. Odyssey is another one. there are a few others. Yuasa even makes shipped-wet battery. I would still charge the battery with a charger, before I let my bike do it. Even Harley externally charges the stock batteries if they are below 12.8v. (Message edited by pammy on December 15, 2005) | ||
| Tramp |
like i said. i store batteries disconnected for entire winters as a common practice. they crank right over when they're reconnected in the spring, after good 4-5 month periods. the life expectancy of these batteries has averaged well over 5 years per battery. this isn't something i read in a book. it's based on over 30 years of experience. somebody wants to tell me my statement of my first-hand experience is "not good advice", and then tell "before you blast me, you should keep in mind what i do", yeah- i'd like to hear all about that person's service creds and years wrenching bikes, so i can keep in mind what they do. it's one thing to offer a new or different viepoint. it's another altogether to call soemone else's suggestion "not good advice" I wouldn't say that, but i'm the one who's being "charged" (  ) with the "cheap shot" penalty. fact is , I DON'T sell battery chargers or tenders, and I DO sell batteries (you can check my shop account activity with Interstate Batteries here in Goshen, NY) as service parts, so my motivation, really, is NOT to sell tenders and related doodads, chachkis and ballyhoo. "not good advice" my a*s. like deja vu all over again. | ||
| Blake |
Y'know, if you would put a tender on them battries, they just might last for going on for near seven, eight, even ten years. Mebbe not. Start now and get back to us on that wouldja? | ||
| Johnnylunchbox |
I abuse the hell out of my batteries. I forget to hook them up to the tenders. I sometimes leave them untended for months. I let them die and repeatedly recharge them from Zero on the battery tenders. Sometimes I yell at them and make them feel really small. Even with my Draconian battery abuse regimen I always manage to get a decent service life out of them. I even have a crappy (not crappie) $19 walmart battery on my '81 KZ440 that never ceases to amaze me with it's resilience. Methinks you are all reading into the battery thing way too much. Just my 2 dinars. | ||
| Dragon_slayer |
Tramp, thanks for not "busting my chops", sounds painful! Sorry it took so long to get back to you. My, look what has happened to this thread while I was gone! I do not know if I should add any other thing to this thread. Well maybe a little. Johnnylunchbox, reading too much into this battery thing? Well I know we are talking about a battery in a bike and if you have problems it means no ride that day or broken down at the side of the road. Bad yes, end of the world, no. But see where some of us offering advise are coming from. For over 15 years I maintained emergency generators and computer power systems for a large computer operation. Lack of battery maintenance meant my bad day was a loss of my job and loss of much money for the company (a bank)and loss of banking services for many customers across the country! I also fly model airplanes. A lack of proper battery maintenance means a destroyed plane. These planes can cost $1000 to $15,000. So you can see this hobby is more motivated than most to do the proper maintenance! BTW many of the remarks on this thread would be FLAMED BIG TIME on any of the model airplane forums. These are just my words, but it is your battery. Roll the dice! | ||
| Pammy |
"These are just my words, but it is your battery. Roll the dice!" I concur.(I would add charging system as well) | ||
| Pammy |
"somebody wants to tell me my statement of my first-hand experience is "not good advice", " Where do you think I am getting MY info? "before you blast me, you should keep in mind what i do", and the reason I put that in my post is that I KNEW that you would blast me, so I was hoping we could keep it civil. I see now that it was a mistake to post anything after you , but what the heII? I was asked to contribute, being a sponsor here and all. I stand by my statement. If that upsets your sensitive nature, then I am TRULY sorry for that. This ends the fracus for me. I have work to do. (Message edited by pammy on December 16, 2005) | ||
| Bomber |
everybody man up, now (cept Pammy cna Ceej, of course) yikes -- you'd think this was the politics thread ;-} | ||
| Honu |
On a positive note, I have learned more about batteries from this thread, than I thought. My 01 E-Glide has a very weak/original battery in it right now, I am guilty of never taking care of my batteries. Question is, buy a new one or buy a charger and charge the old. Also if I buy a new one does it need to be charged before using it? Thanks | ||
| Tramp |
a "positive" note now, unless both your positive and your negative notes are disconnected......  aw, heck. The thread IS about bat-tree chargers, which I've always used. Tenders we used in the factory shops where I'd worked, and they certainly didn't hurt anything. They're a great thing for folks who put their bikes away for any length of time and whom seek peace of mind regarding their battery condition, which they might not have when just storing them. I've not thing one agiants them, incidentally, I was just reciting my 'positive' experiences with regard to modern batteries and storage. When I was 11 or 12, me and my buddy made a battery charger out of a beaten-up, cracked-chuck old drill, mounted firmly to a plank with a wooden yoke, and an alternator out of an old junk car that we used for target practice in the woods. We grabbed the alternator and a V-belt and fastened the whole kit and kaboodle to the plank, with the drill and alternator 'looped up'. Plug that ancient milwaukee in, and that baby charged batteries like a champ  | ||
| Mikej |
I only charge my bat tree during a full moon...  | ||
| Tramp |
Mike- don't snap on bats- Rt has a pet fruitbat.... | ||
| Mikej |
  Have fun down there, maybe he'll let you play with Pinky.  | ||
| Tramp |
 Big fruitbats they got down thar in texas.... | ||
| Johnnylunchbox |
DragonSlayer - my post wasn't meant ot be taken that seriously. | ||
| Hootowl |
I'm pretty sure my X1 battery is AGM, did they change to gel? | ||
| Tramp |
don't ever use a battery tender on a corvair | ||
| Ducxl |
my Buells(of course) use the "Absorbed Glass Mat"(AGM) Battries.This is a great thread.I also use both the tender and a 1.5AMP cycle charger.I've found the most one can reasonably expect from a cycle battery is 4 years MAX.Although for some strange reason i once got 7 years out of a battery on my BMW r90. one question....on regular batteries is it better to use distilled water? Or is that unnecessary? OH YEAH! Hi T*R*A*M*P! | ||
| Tramp |
4 years? that's weird. every battery I've had, or that customers use, gets a minimum of 5, usually 6. but then, I don't use tenders. | ||
| Hootowl |
I have an onboard tender mounted under the seat. It's fairly small, has a built in auto-resetting breaker and a current limiter. It has served me well. I have a picture somewhere... | ||
| Djkaplan |
I replaced the AGM battery on my Buell after 5 years, but only because I felt like it was time. I'm sure it would have lasted another year, at least. Never used a battery tender on it (I would if I had to, though) because I ride it just about every week. I was surprised that out of all the parts that are outsourced on Harleys (and Buells), the batteries are US made. | ||
| Ducxl |
4 years yep.My '99X1,'00 Duc,and my old XL only got 4 good years to each battery.Yeah,4 years.I do not employ the chargers religiously,perhaps that's why i get poor battrie life.But i think 4 years is in the ballpark.BTW where the EFF is the battery on an XB????? I've never seen it! | ||
| Tramp |
duc- i don't use chargers/tenders on any of my batteries, and i'm getting much longer life than you are. the math is right there. |
