| Author | Message | ||
     Chuck |
Forcewinder update: wheelies seem better ... mid-range seems better --- I'm feeling better  | ||
| Holligandave |
I back to having the same problems with my 2000 X1, even after the local shop says it's OK. I'll go for a ride and after I make a stop it's the re-starts is where the problem is. I'll wait for the "red" light to turn off, press the starter....cough..sputter..stall... It will do this until I can feather the throttle to keep the engine running. It will then idle very rough and when I add a little throttle, cough..sputter..stall. I'll go through this routine a couple of times until I can get the bike moving down the road. Once I've put a few miles on, idle is just fine and throttle response is normal at idle. Currently I'm running the following mods: Daytona Boss, high performance O2 sensor, Powercommander II (Custom map made from a dyno tune) Forcewinder intake. When I had it in last they did check the TPS and it was OK. HELP!!!!!! Suggestions????? Thanks in advance!! | ||
| Blake |
Dave: Think back. What on your bike changed just before the problem initially appeared? Try removing the PC. Try another O2 sensor. Do you run the race ECM? I understand it is pretty much essential for a fuellie with high flow intake/exhaust. | ||
| Holligandave |
Blake It was just after I installed the Force intake system. Hummmmm... As far as a ECM, I'm still running stock. That's news to me about the race ECM. I hate to keep spending money that may or not correct problems. Last night I went for a ride....tried to duplicate the problem...ran just fine. If this is a intermittent problem, then my search for the problem could lead to electrical. Thoughts?? | ||
| Jakeanvil |
Everyone This isn't funny, my 2KX1 (PCIII, race ecm, stock air box with K&N, white bros e-series) started to run like dog doo doo, so I thought i would start playing around with some different maps on the pcIII. While doing this I discovered the engine dies once i put my fat ass (6'2" 265lbs) on the bike with or without the corbin seat. I'm no mechanic but obviously something is getting pinched somewhere I think? Has anyone ever seen anything like this? Any pointing in the right direction would be wonderful. Thanks Jake | ||
| Holligandave |
Jake, My guess is you placed the PCIII under the seat. When I placed mine under there, I had very little clearance once the seat was in place. You may be pressing down on it and causing it to fail. Try moving it as far back as possible and check the clearance. Dave | ||
| Hootowl |
I had the same problem when I put my PCIII in too. Turned out I had jostled the fuse box while monkeying around in there. Reseat all your fuses. Worked for me. | ||
| Jakeanvil |
Dave and Hooty Thanks, but I wish it wear one of those 2 things. It is the wackiest thing I've ever seen. I don't even have to sit, just stand on the pegs, maybe it's something electrical? I don't know. So much for Homecoming! And to think I only live 20 minutes away. jeesh some guys have all the luck! I definitly have a fri happy hour bike. But when she chooses to perform I love her. Any other suggestions where to look? Jake | ||
| Fuscat |
Ok guys, I apologise for the cross post, but I will be posting this in the Engine - Carburation and the quick board as some of you might not see it in time. Tommarow I will be installing the YoDude intake system (forcewinder) on my 97 S1. While I have it all apart I am going to go ahead and rejet the carb. I called all the local KC Harley shops as well as Topeka HD/Buell looking for the parts mentioned on the Engine-Carburation board with no luck. No one has the 190 main jet. Since I had to go to Topeka to pick up my Millineum Pegs, I chitt-chatted with David Chall about the carb situation. He told me that he recommends a Keihin jet kit that they carry to all the guys that are doing the same thing I am. He asked what exhaust I was running and I told him I had the V&H slip on. He said yea go with the kit, as they dont have each piece that I needed for sale individually. So no biggie I went and picked up the pegs and the jet kit. (BTW If you ever order anything from Topeka HD/Buell if you have the time and he's not busy please B.S. with David he's the coolest guy he has lots of great stories!!) Anyway, while I was there talking with him, he looked in the service manual to see what jet exactly came stock on the 97 S1. Its a #195 main jet. The kit comes with #45 & #48 slow jets, and #175 & #180 main jets and then the right needle. After asking aboiut the exhaust and intake he suggested leaving the #195 main jet and just installing the #45 and the needle. Here is where my questions come in. The tech notes on the carb board say use #190 or #195 for the main. Is there going to be that much of a difference? The instructions that come with the jet kit suggest this: Modified air cleaner & exhaust - use #45 slow jet and #175 main jet. Why such a difference between this and what the board recommends? Modified air cleaner, exhaust and high hp cams - use #45 slow jet and #180 main jet. Don't the Buells have high hp cams? I'm just confused and want to do this right the first time. Should I just ignore everything but what David told me leave the #195 put in the #45 and the needle?? I just don't want to mess anything up!! Thanks for your time guys! Happy Buell'n!! Fuscat | ||
| Tripper |
Fusee: Do what Dave suggested. With the cool weather we have now you will need the bigger jet. It may be too rich next summer but then you have the 180 for hot weather. Bring it over if you want to do this in a garage. | ||
| Fuscat |
Tripper I don't want to impose on you on a holiday weekend! I do appreciate the offer tho.. My dad is coming over tommarow afternoon and we're going to take a crack at it. If S... hits the fan I might give you a buzz!  Does the manual you have got any good diagrams at all on this process?? If so that would help! I have a generic instruction manual for the carb itself, but Buell specific might be better. My email is not working but you can reach me at a temporary address I will send you. If all goes well we might cruise by to show off the handiwork and return your mirrors! (maybe get away with those grips too!) Fuscat | ||
| Tripper |
Derek; I have some other jets that you can have as my bike has a dynojet kit which won't work with the stock jets. I think I have the 180 & 185. You don't need the manual, it's too easy. Come on over with your dad and we'll have fun. Didn't I give you a CDRom manual? Take mine and burn a few. | ||
| Fuscat |
Well if you insist!! I really do appreciate it!! He should be here at my place about 3 I suspect. (he works nights) Which should put us there about 3:30-4:00ish if thats ok? if not email me at fuscat1@birch.net, make sure you add the 1 in there its a temp until I get my old one fixed... I'll try to remember the CD too!! (if anyone needs a copy let me know I will get one mailed out to you!) David at topeka pulled the price for me on the 96 S1 manual and its $56.00 then the 97 S1 Supplement is another $56 bucks!! Although he offered me a break on it if I ever want to buy it... Still seems high for a service manual. Anyways time to head for the shed, Carbs & Intakes 101 Begins tommarow!! Fuscat | ||
| Loki |
Fuscat, just one thing to remember... leave the carb retainer bracket on the bike. Loki | ||
| Fuscat |
Loki will do! Tripper my dads en route to my place I will call before we leave for yours just to make sure were still on! Fuscat | ||
| Loki |
All, Having the A/F guage on the bike is a real trip. You can see the results of any changes you make. Even the effects of weather changes I suppose... Well anyways.... Starting out with a Force Sidewinder(w/Racewinder cover), a BOSS(2.5 inch), and a M-Duece to experiment with.... The first attempt: 45 slow,190 main, N65C needle, no I did not drill the slide or adjust the idle air mix. Result: real fat bottom end and no top end! I mean open the throttle up a 3k rpm and it went full lean and stayed there until... (It was great until the accel pump shot was used up.) Partial throttle inputs put into a lean condition at times. Next attempt: adjusted the idle/air mix to 2 and 1/3 turns, main to a 195. Result: idle much cleaner and just above stoich indication. yank the throttle open(in gear from 55) and it goes lean BUT(a big one at that), I can see the slide opening up(catching up to the demand) and going just slightly rich. Now partial throttle inputs drop it into the stioch range. From these to attempts I can see that: first, I need to increase the slide response time(drill the dam hole out)second, I can lean out the idle a hair more. I can see a bad(relatively)spot with the N65C needle which only occurs at a couple throttle positions(I can live with these) Loki the drawing board is geeting rather full.... | ||
| Fuscat |
Well, Carbs & Intakes 101 turned out to be a class indeed! Thanks a ton Tripper! Turns out the carb had a dyno jet kit installed already. Found out the fuel line was split down the middle from one end to another! Replaced that, then went on to the YoDude Intake. The parts looked great in quality. The catch can and system worked great everything went fine until we got ready to attatch the snorkel to the carb. This is when the learning really began! The bolts simply do not work with a stock cv 40mm carb! The bolts that come with the system are regular phillips head bolts these bolts work great for the left hand side and the top of the snorkel, but the nuts supplied only work for the left hand bolt. The top bolt needs a different nut that will fit between the carb body and the back of the mounting hole where the bolt comes out. The bottom simply does not work with supplied bolt or nut. Thankfully tripper had a nuts and bolts tray handy and we found one that worked after a couple washers and another nut that would slide in behind carb body and the mounting hole. Finally we made it and got it snuggly attatched. All in all it looks great!! The YoDude Intake system is a great quality kit. (Jay thanks a bunch!)But needs to have the bolting system looked into to supply better fitting hardware. Performance wise I do feel a difference. It does pick up better in midrange! Sounds alot different aswell she has alot more snarl now.. Slapped on the spring loaded millineum pegs and it was done! Thanks again tripper I'll be sure to stop by and grab my stock 97 drink holder! I will post some pics in the pics board later on this evening.. Fuscat | ||
| Spiked |
Hey guys, I just installed the #45 slow jet on my stock '99 M2 this evening. (fast was a #200) The bike feels great when I roll on the throttle, but if I whack it wide open from low rpm it hesitates for a moment before really taking off. It feels like it's bogging, so my guess is it's going rich. The air mixture screw is 2 turns out right now, should I just keep turning it in, or should I change the needle? Thanks in advance. Spike | ||
| Loki |
Spiked, Sounds like slow slide response....put in the N65C needle and drill out the slide orifice. Right now I am running a #45 slow w/2 1/2 turns out, 195 main, N65C needle and having not drilled out the slide.... I can watch the slow slide response on my A/F indicator as it goes lean (when I whack it open) and then opens up. Loki | ||
| Fuscat |
I just posted the pics in the "pics of badweb Buells" board. | ||
| Jerome |
Loki : welcome in the club of A/F ratio gauge addicts ! I'm still puzzled by one thing though : I had for some time a quite similar setup (Force type of air filter, 2.5" header, SuperTrapp with 15 disks, Keihin CV carb with N65C needle and 45 slow) on my 00 M2. But according to my A/F ratio reading, seat of the pants feeling, and specific highway section for speed check at WOT, it definitely behaved best with a 175 main jet instead of the stock 195 (note that I live near sea-level). I guess that the only remaining difference between our two bikes is that we live on both sides of the pond and the energy density of american and european fuel may be different (different reformulation). Any other european M2 owner or petroleum specialist to confirm or infirm this speculation ? Do european Buells usually require smaller jets compared to american Buells, after tuning of similar setups ? | ||
| Bull |
Guys, Does anyone know if the Forcewinder kit uses K&N filters?? If so, does anyone know the K&N part no. for replacement filters?? Thanks in advance /Jojje | ||
| Loki |
Jerome, One big difference is the fuel each of us has access to. Even region to region in the states has their own blends brewed for them. Having the guage on the bike has been a real educational experience for me. I wish I had done this when the GPz was built...would have made things a whole easier/ Bull, Yes it is a K&N filter. Although Icant tell you the exact p/n right now. Easiest would be to echo ForceMotorProducts and ask them. They have a couple different versions being used(carb vs. FI) Loki | ||
| Scottm |
Spiked, I have a 2001 M2 with a 45 slow jet, a N65C needle, drilled slide and now a 185 Main. I experienced the same problem tht you have with the engine doing great when I rolled on the throttle but bogging when I opened the throttle suddenly. I'm was running the K&N filter in the stock box with the stock exhaust and the bike ran great. When I put on the Super Trapp ith 12-18 discs ( I was trying different combos) the bogging showed up. I first thought it might be lean since it would seem adding a free slowing exhaust would allw more air into the engine. The only problem was that the discs were black and sooty and so were the plugs. I dropped to a 185 main from the stock 195(I read Jeromes post and figured I'd give it a try.) and it seemed to help a little. but still would bogg which made me think that it was not getting enough air thru the air filter so I gutted the airbox and installed the Venturi ring and used a piece of aluminum to hold the air filter in place. Low and behold the bogging was gone. Anyway thats what worked for me. I leve at sea level and the ambiant temp is between 70-90 degrees F all year. I have no pinging and the bike pulls to redline. I have since replaced the aluminum holder with the stock air filter cup which has holes cut in it and looks like swiss cheese. The aluminum kept vibrating the bolts free. Sorry for the long post but this hole carb thing is very confusing. Also, anybody know what the number and comparison the needle in the keihin kit is compared to the stock needle (NOKK) and the N65C? Scott | ||
| Spiked |
Scott, Thanks for the information. Have you changed your breather setup, or is it still venting through the airbox? Also, will the N65C needle offer any benefit if I don't drill the slide? Thanks in advance. Spike | ||
| Javahed |
Jake, Back on the 29th you were talking about trying different maps with your PCIII, have you found any that work better that what PC recommends? I have a 2000 X1 with a PCIII, V&H pipe and the K&N race setup with the stock breadbox. Always looking for more power!!! Thanks (Hope your bike is running good now) Dan | ||
| Scottm |
Spiked, I am still running the breather hoses to the air box. There are several resons I'm doing this. First and foremost it is the easiest thing to do, my bike doesn't seem to puke any oil, at least not yet, and finally, when the bike is running the breathers seem to draw a suction and I only want filtered air going into the engine. As far as the N65C needle goes, from what I've read and heard the only thing that drilling the hole in the slide does is improve throttle (slide) response time. (Anybody else please chime in if I'm mistaken or there is more to the story.) The needle itself supposedly richens the lower end and is actually longer than the stock needle. If you look at the carb archives there is quit a bit of info from folks with air fuel gauges installed and with more experience than me. Good luck and let me know how it turns out. I would probable do the easiest thing first and see what effect it has on the bike i.e., gut the airbox. Scott | ||
| Loki |
Spiked, echo me and I will wander around with you on the carb deal. I have been getting some good feedback both felt and seen with doing the carb mods one by one. m2loki@bignet.net Loki | ||
| Rick_A |
I'm planning on making my own intake out of the stock snorkel...something similar to the Force/YoDude system. I want to run a K&N filter but I also want to use one of those weather inhibiting covers. Anyone know where you can get these? | ||
| Gearloose |
Hi guys,I have a 00X1 with race ecu,Force Airfilter system and am about to install a new Force exhaust system.I am wondering if the race ecu will be ok or should I opt for a PCIII? Thanks Gearloose |
