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Buell Forum » Knowledge Vault (tech, parts, apparel, & accessories topics) » Troubleshooting (Poor Starting/Running/Handling/Ride Issues) » 04 xb12r will not start « Previous Next »

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Megadeth934
Posted on Monday, May 30, 2016 - 03:04 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Hello, i am having trouble with my 04 xb12r, it will not start.
I bought the bike a month ago. it had only been ridden for about 1500 miles on the same oil change over the course of three years. the bike has idled low at about 800rpm since i bought it, but will periodically idle at 1000rpm after warm-up. I have put about 200 miles on it since purchase. I also put a new battery in it.
while riding it will sputter, or "lag" on me as if it wants to die, the first time it did this, the check engine light flashed as it was sputtering, but eventually went off.

current start sequence is as follows:
bike is in neutral, neutral light is on.
turn key, both needles do their rotation.
check eng light lights up for a second and goes off
kill switch to RUN position, fuel pump primes, i hit the starter button and nothing happens. no response at all from the starter.
battery is at 12.8v, all relays and fuses read good. i have voltage at the starter button.

I had this problem last week and i isolated it to a bad clutch switch, i bypassed it by running a small piece of copper wire between the two outlets that plug into the clutch switch, the bike fired right up no problem. a week later as i went to change the oil, there is no response from the starter button, i'm in the same boat as i was before i did the clutch bypass a week ago.
I re-did the clutch bypass just in case, and still nothing.

I know this seems like a large problem, but im confident i can isolate the issues with a push in the right direction : D
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Harleyelf
Posted on Monday, May 30, 2016 - 01:17 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Do the same bypass to the sidestand switch.
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Megadeth934
Posted on Wednesday, June 01, 2016 - 04:28 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

As far as i can tell, there is no sidestand switch. unless it is nowhere near the sidestand itself.
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Froggy
Posted on Wednesday, June 01, 2016 - 08:06 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

The XB12 bikes don't have a sidestand switch


Your running issues are common symptoms of needing a TPS reset, but that shouldn't prevent you from being able to start the bike. Also the bike should start in Neutral regardless of you holding the clutch, so in theory your fix did nothing and was a coincidence.



I'm trying to think what to check next. Normally I'd say relay but you said those are good. I'm suspecting the starter motor itself, or possibly getting power to it being the issue.

I know you said the relay is good, but does it make a click when you press the starter button?
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Akbuell
Posted on Wednesday, June 01, 2016 - 08:40 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

On the end of the starter is a single wire with a blade connector. The wire is green on my tubers, and the '08 XB electrical manual shows that as a green wire also. Connection 128, FWIW.

Unplug that, and attach your multimeter. Getting to that connector to unplug it could be 'fiddley', or PITA, if you prefer.

With the bike in neutral and the ign and stop/run switches on, push the start button. You should see 12V.

If not, the problem is somewhere in the 'control' circuit. If you do have 12V, the problem is in the starter solenoid/starter.

I suspect the start relay may be testing OK, but is failing under working loads.

If you don't already have one, a factory service manual is a 'must have', and is an excellent resource. The troubleshooting trees are very helpful.

Hope this helps, Dave
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Akbuell
Posted on Wednesday, June 01, 2016 - 10:01 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

And a second check, while you are in there . . .

Fab up a jumper wire. Plug one end into the connector at the starter. After confirming bike is in neutral, just touch the other to the pos terminal on the battery. If the starter turns over, the problem is in the control circuit, even if you had voltage in the previous check.

Hope this helps, Dave

(Message edited by Akbuell on June 01, 2016)
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Megadeth934
Posted on Thursday, June 02, 2016 - 01:47 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Thanks guys, Frogggy, i am getting absolutely no response from the starter button whatsoever, no clicks, pops or buzzes.
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Megadeth934
Posted on Thursday, June 02, 2016 - 01:49 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

akbuell, i checked the relays with a fuse tester, they all showed to be good, i also rotated them to see if i could isolate a possible bad one, and after rotation, everything worked as it should, horn, signals, lights, ignition switch), so therefore i would say that my relays must be good.

(Message edited by megadeth934 on June 02, 2016)
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Akbuell
Posted on Thursday, June 02, 2016 - 09:01 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Given what you describe, I agree that the relay is most likely good.

In my experience, there is no 'magic bullet' to solving these kind of issues, other than the - battery good, cables clean and tight, fuses and relays good, ect.

Time to do the checks I outlined, and isolate the problem to the control circuit or the starter. For the purposes of discussion, lets say the problem is the control circuit. I would have the wiring diagram to hand, and start at the fuse - is there power to it? Then ohm the fuse to confirm it is good. Then confirm power is getting out with the fuse installed. Then on to the next point in the circuit. I end up saving time in the long run this way compared to 'I'll check this . . Then check this . . and so on.

Hope this helps, Dave
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Megadeth934
Posted on Friday, June 03, 2016 - 08:52 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Dave, i just wanted to confirm, what are the components in the 'control circuit' to which you keep referring?
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Megadeth934
Posted on Friday, June 03, 2016 - 10:56 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

According to this troubleshooting tree that i found in the 04 xvb12r manual, i had to check for battery voltage at relay terminal, and i got none,


nothing clicks tree

moving down, i checked voltage at the starter button, there was none.

so according to this, i have to repair the wiring that runs to the starter button

i think i might be doing something wrong though, because when i attach my multimeter leads to the connectors on the inside of the starter button switch, i get nothing, but if i touch some wire to it, i get a spark.

there are two pins inside the relay terminal (86) that i checked, assuming that one was positive and one is negative i attached my multimeter leads to it and nothing, swapped them and still nothing. held down the starter button, nothing, swapped them again with the starter button held down and still nothing.
repeated the same steps with the key on and still nothing. so im sure there is no voltage to the relay terminal.

(Message edited by megadeth934 on June 04, 2016)
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Akbuell
Posted on Saturday, June 04, 2016 - 08:35 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Sorry for any confusion. I sometimes mentally 'rearrange' bits to make trouble shooting easier for me. In this case, the 'won't start' issue caused me to think of the problem in the sense of (1) Is it the starter motor, or (2) Is it the relays/switches that turn the starter on and off. I.E. the 'control' circuit.

No power to the start relay ( part of what I call the 'control' circuit) seems to be the issue, so time to take the wiring diagram and work back towards the battery, one step at a time, to find the open. Is the wire, and the connectors, from the relay to the start button showing continuity? Is there power from the fuse to the relay ? (Most likely, if the lights work - blue wire per my '08 diagram). And so on.

Hope this helps, Dave

(Message edited by Akbuell on June 04, 2016)
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Akbuell
Posted on Saturday, June 04, 2016 - 11:19 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Just checked on my '08. With the relay out, and the key on and the stop/run switch in run, at pin 30 on the relay (pin 6 on the fuse block, the blue wire) I have battery voltage.

With the above conditions, 0 volts at pin 86 (pin 10 on the fuse block), the BK/R wire. With the start button pushed, I get battery voltage to the pin.

Might do to unplug connector 22, the plug to the RH controls. Confirm battery voltage to the R/BK wire with the key switch on.

On the switch end of the connector, confirm continuity with the start button pushed and the stop/run switch on run, probably the R/BK wire to the BK/R wire. And be sure to confirm, as the wire colors on the switch end of connector 22 may not be the same as the colors on the harness end.

Hope this helps, Dave
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Megadeth934
Posted on Thursday, June 09, 2016 - 08:11 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Hey Dave, I'm not exactly sure what I did, but the bike seems to fire up just fine now,
I just opened up the right handlebar switch and pow when I hit the starter button it fired up.

I'm thinking there's moisture to an exposed connection somewhere and it took a minute to dry up. But idk.

Thanks for your help, I appreciate you putting in the time to help me with troubleshooting steps.
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Akbuell
Posted on Thursday, June 09, 2016 - 10:58 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Excellent! Glad the bike is working properly again.

And you are very welcome. Dave
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