| Author | Message | ||
     Road_King |
Rocket: Is that alloy oil tank on your bike the same one that Tat sells? Are you happy with it? Road_thing | ||
| José_Quiñones |
Ralph You are correct. The check valve opens at 4-6 psi. Pretty low, isn't it? I won't answer the other two questions to see who wants to take a crack at them. 1. What pressure does the oil pump operate at 1000 rpm (idling)? 2. What pressure does the oil pump operate at 2500 rpm? __________________________________________________ I love Speedvision! Man, Aaron Yates is a lucky cat. After Daytona and his 600 crash at Sears Point, he probably has two lives left! That Air Fence is wonderful technology. Did anybody catch Mr. Sands from Performance Machine complain that nobody has made a V-Twin "sportbike" and that he might have to make one himself? I guess a Sportster is not a Harley motor in his eyes? _________________________________________________ Speaking of Sporsters, here is Zippers 4"x4" S&S based Sportster motor kit Can you say Torque Monster? I knew you could. | ||
| Mdx1 |
jose, at 2500 RPM: 10-17 psi (69-117 kiloNewtons per meter square) at 950-1050 RPM: 7-12 psi (48-83 kiloNewtons per meter square) uh i want a cookie... mrs. field's preferably  so what was your point again? (i uh...forgot) pg. 3-33, X-1 manual | ||
| José_Quiñones |
Eugene, My point is that for people that insist using an oil filter designed for a car on their bike, they need to be aware that a car typically has a higher pressure oil system than a Harley motor, so the bypass valve inside the filter will never open when if it is ever needed. On top of that, some car filters are missing things that the HD filter has, like the anti-drainback valve. Buyer beware! You bought a service manual within your first year of ownership, you are very wise. Now get a battery tender and some duct tape, and you'll be ready for anything! I'll bring some cookies or KRISPY KREME donuts to the May DCBRAG meeting. | ||
| Mdx1 |
YES SIR! nah jose, i hear ya... im not that daring anyhow... i'd rather just keep getting gouged by Harley Davidson... (got plenty of duct tape - 100 milehour tape for us military folk... fixed plenty of hummers [HMMWVs] with that baby) next on my list actually is an under-the-seat tool kit, dunno whether to buy the cruz or the one buell made. im just not interested in doin' scavenger hunt for a small flat T27 torx key, itty bitty hex keys, etc. etc. any ideas? earnest question for anyone out there: my X-1 2000 service manual sez oil tank capacity is 2.5 quarts. didn't someone here say that was WRONG? or is it right? bottomline: how much oil do i put in my baby for a oil change? 4 ounces in the new filter PLUS how much more oil in the oil tank? -yooj | ||
| Raymaines |
yooj, I'm the one that said that the Y2K M2 service manual declares that I have a 2 quart capacity including (I think) the 4 onces in a new filter but I put 3 quarts into the tank to bring the level up to half way between the marks on the dip stick. Put in however much oil the manual says then run the engine to build up the oil pressure, turn off the engine and check the oil level. Add more oil and check the level again. Keep doing that until you get it right. For me that's three quarts with the long Dyna filter. | ||
| Rocketman |
So, what happens if that check valve opens at a higher pressure ? Some of you Buellers might be familiar with this syndrome Anyone ? Rocket in England | ||
| Blake |
José: Got some questions: 1. What causes the bypass valve to open? Differential pressure right? Consider two operational lubrication scenarios, one a high pressure system, the other a low pressure system. #1) 80 psi at filter input, 77 psi at filter output versus #2) 15 psi at filter input, 12 psi at filter output. 2. Which one needs the high pressure bypass valve? 3. Would the greater flow capacity of a larger car filter tend to preclude clogging the filter media and subsequent actuation of the bypass valve? 4. What are the primary factors effecting the pressure differential accross a clean filter's bypass valve? 5. Would a 4-6 psi anti-drain check-ball valve work in a high pressure system? Or would the check ball need to actuate at much higher pressure? 6. If the pressure at the filter output is 12 psi, what is the pressure just past the check-ball (check ball actuates at ~5 psi)? This is great stuff! Blake (wantstoditchworkfridaytopickuphisnewbikeearly) | ||
| José_Quiñones |
Oil Filter Bypass Valve: The purpose of the bypass valve is to permit the continued flow of oil if the filter becomes clogged and oil pressure builds up on the inlet side of the filter Remember there are TWO check valves in these motors, one in the oil filter for the oil entering the filter, and the check ball valve in the motor for the oil leaving the filter. Ok so you put a car filter in your bike, with a bypass valve that opens at, for example 22 psi. Let's say that the HD filter's valve opens at 18 psi. If for some reason your car filter becomes clogged, the pressure would have to build up to 22 psi before any oil would leave the filter to go into the motor. In the meantime your top end is running without oil! And the oil "idiot light" will not light up because it is on the side with all the pressure! Doh! I agree that Oil filters clogging is relatively rare. But if it ever happens, and you are using a car filter at the time, don't expect any sympathy from the HD warranty or Extended Warranty when they find out what you did. | ||
| Blake |
José: Why would a high pressure (car) oil filter's bypass valve need a higher actuation pressure than that in a low pressure filter (see my questions 1 and 2 above)? What do you think about questions 3 thru 6 above? Blake (stubbornasamulewhichisalsosometimescalledanass) | ||
| Blake |
And... If the oil line between the pump and the filter were to be clamped off. What max pressure would result at the pump? | ||
| Bigj |
I see this as a relatively moot point. What do you gain out of using an automotive filter, except possibly a couple of dollars? I can almost GUARANTEE that HD would not honor an oil related failure if you are using an auto filter. big j | ||
| José_Quiñones |
 The bypass valve is spring actuated. I don't think it works via differential pressure but absolute pressure. The valve rated at 20 psi won't open at 19 psi, even if there is 21 psi on the other side. You could never have higher pressure on the other side of the filter anyway, only lower pressure. But that won't do a thing for the spring actuated valve. | ||
| José_Quiñones |
Questions 3 to 6 3. probably so 4. I don't know 5. It would open at the pressure that the system is designed for. 6. 11.9 psi? The last question about how high the pressure will go, I don't know. My main point about all this is that as long as you use an oil filter designed for a particular vehicle, then buy it. But to put a car filter on a motorcycle is bad karma, man! | ||
| José_Quiñones |
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| Bushmasta |
Help my Buell is leaking. it leaves a nice little 1 1/2 puddle of oil. It seems to be dripping from one of those open hoses onto to the exhuast and ground. When it starts it smokes as the pipes burn the oil off. I noticed little specks of oil on my R. lower leg. It seems oil is also leaking from the air box also. I have only gone 400 miles on since i have got it and already the oil is at the minimal level. I heard they blew a minute amount of oil into the air box but it should be this bad right? It should lose that much oil either right? what about all the oil it drips onto the pipes? It is still under warranty, but i was wondering if you all had any ideas. Thank you in advance for your help. jhbushmasta@aol.com | ||
| José_Quiñones |
Bushmasta Read The S3 Files and it's daddy, the The X1 Files Welcome to the world of BUELL! | ||
| José_Quiñones |
Here's what I did about it:    | ||
| Bushmasta |
Jose, Thanks if possible can you email me these same pictures and a brief explanation of what you did and what parts you used (i.e. what part is on the bottom hose, what type of filter is that and how you routed, what's up with the tin foil looking thing). I'm really new to this bike and am still figuring out the how things work on this thing. I'd really appreciate it. Thank you. jhbushmasta@aol.com | ||
| José_Quiñones |
The silver looking stuff is the greatest invention of mankind, DUCT TAPE! I emailed you the explanation. It will be soon on the web in the S3 Files. Is this your first HD/Buell? I wholeheartedly recommend that you buy the FACTORY SERVICE MANUAL for your bike, it will pay for itself over the life of your bike, and it will help you to become "one" with it! Have fun with your bike. | ||
| Bushmasta |
Yeah, its my first Buell, i wanted one long ago but never thought i could afford one, then H&D got and involved and it seemed a little more possible. Now i have one, hooray. Took your advice and bought a service book yesterday. The one Buell mechanic at my dealer seems to think the oil that puked onto the muffler was from the hose clogging itself then the pressure blowing it out. He said something about Buell recommending 1 quart but it only holds like 26 ounces so it overflows at first. He said to ride to see if it continues. what is the hose for above the muffler? its not for the crankcase right that goes into the airbox. | ||
| Blake |
That "only holds 26 ounces is total BS!! The tranny holds a quart! The oil tank holds two quarts. | ||
| José_Quiñones |
Ok here we go again..... Blake, The correct oil level in the primary is just enough so that the fluid touches the bottom of the clutch basket. It turns out that that is approximately 26-28 oz, not the full quart. If you put the full quart in, it might run ok, but chances are it will puke some out of the tranny vent. You can also suffer clutch drag.  Run this experiment, drain your primary, then fill it up as required until the fluid level (4) is even with bottom of clutch diaphragm spring (3) 99S3T service Manual page 1-20 I bet it's less than a full quart. | ||
| S2no1 |
Blake, Please put a full quart in your new ride. Go find Court (I know it's NY) ride your new bike. If you put in a full quart, take a rag with you. Order the kevlar pads from Tat for the rear, at first I didn't like them, but their growing on me. Arvel | ||
| Chuck |
FYI ... I recently repaired a primary cover gasket leak on my M2. The bike sat disassembled over night while I got a new gasket and a black powder coated cover to replace the stock one. Anyway ... by this time the oil was completely drained and a full quart of Sport Trans brought the level up to about half a mm less than the level shown in my service manual. | ||
| S2no1 |
Chuck, That's not fair, you actually were able to get all of the fluid out. I don't want to pull the primary case every oil change. Want to sell the stock one? Arvel | ||
| Smadd |
Regarding primary lubricant... you can even error on the light side. I'm pretty sure (IMHO) that there's *plenty* oil to splash and coat all necessary components while riding. Steve | ||
| Captpete |
Hello to All, Where in the F have you been in my SB (Since Buell) life? I recently discovered this site while perusing a MC Rag, while hanging out at my local hot-wrench shop, while waiting for the last couple of bolts to be torqued on the second (that’s right – SECOND) major rebuild of my of my S1W. My relationship with this piece of machinery has been heart-breaking, expensive, (I’m buried beyond belief – could’ve bought a 996 and ridden it home from Italy for what I’ve spent on this thing), discouraging, but… exhilarating, adrenal-pumping, ass-aching, and feel-good-all-over rewarding when it’s running. And now I’ve finally found some answers… maybe all of them. Maybe now, there won’t be, “The Third Time’s The Charm.” I will post the saga at a later time. It contains all the elements of a great story, tragedy, suspense, humor, etc., but it will take some time to compose. In the meantime, some comments about issues that may or may not have been resolved in this latest rebuild will follow. I’m currently 180 miles into the break-in, so there’s still time to take action if I find that mistakes have been made. The last self-destruction required replacement of everything between the crank and the rocker covers. Here’s the list of ingredients: 1. Zipper Flywheel scrapper kit – installed @ .0010 clearance 2. HD connecting rod assy. 3. S&S 3 ¾ Aluminum cyl & piston kit (84 ci) 4. Andrews high lift springs 5. HD Evo valves & seats 6. Misc. bearings, gaskets, do-dads, shop rags, etc. Total parts: $2591.12 Total Labor: 30 hrs @ $55 - $1650 Total w/ FL tax: $4538 The heads had been set up during the previous rebuild (I’ll address that situation in your section about shops to stay away from!!), but needed a little more re-shaping after the new guides were installed. Only one head still had valves that worked when they finally reached the operating table, but the comparison showed an increase in flow (at .600 lift) from 143.4 cfm to 148 cfm. The stock cam (Andrews N4 - .490 lift) is still in place. (Gotta learn how to keep this thing from doing a back-flip as-is, before I start fiddling with new cams!) So, the true-tellin’s from the dyno room will have to wait until I putt around for another 820 miles. (That’s right… 1000 mile break-in. My “new” shop claims the new rods need an extra 500 miles.) That’s the current status. Now here’s some history: I bought the bike as a basket case, with 1000 miles on it. The original owner lost it in a corner, shot off into the pucker bushes, dinged both himself and the bike up a bit, and decided that what he really wanted was not a super-bike, but a chopper. Lotsa good parts in that-there Buell, so he completely disassembled it and ordered a stretch frame for the new project. But fate intervened, and he had to leave the island in fear of his life. (More about that when I get around to posting the “Saga.” That’s the funny part, and I don’t want to ruin it now.) His boss had fronted him the money for the bike originally, none had been paid back, so the boss retained possession – and we made a deal. My best friend owned a HD shop on the island, so we had the pallet-of-parts reassembled, & I flew out to spend a couple of weeks puttin’ around on my new Buell. Three months later, it completed its journey from the Western Pacific and arrived here in North Florida. The transition was finally complete. I bought my first bike (‘48 pan head) as a private in the Army, and since that time have owned many bikes. But only two marquees: HD & Triumph. Maybe I’m into my second childhood, as they say, but I finally realized that what I really cared about most was not playing the biker role on some big glittery hog, but going fast, especially through the twisties. And I love that low-end torque. I knew my next ride would be a Buell long before that pallet of parts came into my life, and now I was finally home! But it didn’t last for long. One day something changed, and I suddenly found myself puttin’ down the road on what I can only describe as a prototype Blast! Even that was impressive. It would still do 95 on one cylinder! But I was now used to more, so I started looking for someone to make it better again. A couple of years prior, I had looked at some new Buells at a dealer up in Georgia, and a guy I had spoken with there had impressed me, so I gave him a call. In the interim, that dealer had given up the Buell franchise, so I asked who might best attend my needs. He suggested a world-renowned shop in Daytona Beach, so off I went in my old Chevy PU, the patient strapped to a backboard in the bed. Once the teardown was complete, I got the diagnosis: bent pushrod and a hole in the rear piston. Also, I was told, the timing had been set at… ready for this? 81 degrees advanced!! WTF? I knew these guys out on the island liked to run their HD’s 3 or 4 degrees ahead of the mark, but 81? I don’t know much about these engines, but I couldn’t believe one would even run at that setting?? Maybe backwards, but even that was doubtful. Since it was already apart, I asked this world-famous HD Guru what he thought the most-bang-for-the-buck modification would be, and he suggested re-shaping the heads. Told me I could expect rwhp in the low 80’s. So I said, do it. 500 miles later I returned for a dyno run: 72 hp. No head-scratching, no attempt to tune. His comment: “That’s almost one horsepower per cubic inch. Respectable.” And he sent me on my way. What did I know? He was supposed to be the world’s best. But, to be honest, I couldn’t see where it ran much better than before the rebuild. 2000 miles later, I hauled it out to Colorado and spent three weeks and another 1800 miles with my best buddy (from the island) burning up those legendary canyon runs in the Rockies. But the Buell was a real dog. Sure, I could leave my buddy’s Road King in the dust, but it was all suspension and attitude. It sure wasn’t due to hp. And I damn near wore that Mikuni 42 out changing jets, trying to find a spark plug that wasn’t flat black. One day we found ourselves northbound, just a little east of the mountains, and I could see forever down that black shimmering ribbon of asphalt. Top end at that altitude was 105mph, and I held it there for 45 minutes. I pulled into a gas station to wait for my buddy, and much to my amazement, the whole ass-end of the bike was drenched with oil, as were my right boot and Levi’s. WHF! Again! Over a quart in 45 minutes. (Issue #1) I got home feeling pretty disappointed. What’s the deal with these Buells? They advertise 101 hp from the factory. Subtract 15% to the rear wheel, and you should see about 85 hp. Sure, manufacturers always lie about hp, but that’s a pretty big lie. I’ve now got a Mikuni 42, head job, and a V&H muffler, even if it is blowing fiberglass & chunks of the retaining tube out the end. 72 hp at sea level? I decided to find another shop w/ a dyno. I found Dynajet on the web, and sure enough, there was one right here in Jacksonville, close to where I live. I ordered a Rev Tech slip-on to replace the V&H that was self-destructing, (I liked the idea of baffle plates – plus, had a good experience with that system on a ’95 Wide Glide) and made an appointment for a tune up. First run was 68hp. But the torque curve was almost non-existent. After about 20 runs we were up to 74hp, but still no torque. The last step was timing. Shop # one had scribed the original timing (81 degrees?). We set it up on the mark (about 3 or 4 degrees behind the scribe mark) and voila! 84 hp & 68 ft lbs of torque. The young guy who owns the shop said, “We’re done. I’m gonna take it down the road, and you’re on your way.” He returned a few minuets later, and said, “I think you’re going to like it. It holds the front wheel off the ground all the way through first gear.” What a difference! Now I had a Buell. Two days later, I was rolling about 20 mph in first gear and opened the throttle. No clutch, just a “twist of the wrist.” The next thing I knew, all I could see through the face shield of my helmet was blue sky and telephone wires. I’ll be honest… it scared the dogshit outta me. I’ve done a bunch of loops in airplanes, but that’s as close as I’ve ever come to doing one on a bike. Happy ending? Not quite. 500 miles later I was on my way to a little rural town in Georgia where I had an appointment to start negotiations for the purchase of an expensive piece of equipment for my business. It was a chilly morning, just the right temperature to be comfortable in full leathers, clear skies, newly resurfaced road consisting of a number of two or three-mile straight-aways separated by a few high-speed turns, and no traffic. I decided to see what these newfound ponies would do. At 125mph it was still pulling hard… and then I was back on the Blast! Again. The teardown revealed that the crankcase was full of oil… hence the flywheel scraper. (Issue #2) So that’s the story in a nutshell. Big nuts, here in N. FL (Nuts, not balls! I’m an old dude, and things tend to shrink as you get older.) Jose’, I’ve found the “X1” files, thanks to your postings. Do the modifications to the center rocker cover & umbrella valve hole apply to S1W? I would assume so… rocker covers is rocker covers? I would, of course, welcome any and all comments. And shame on me for not finding y’all sooner. Thanks. | ||
| Chuck |
Arvel, I'll let you know on Monday about the stock primary cover. | ||
| X1mchip |
Captpete That's quite a story! There are plenty of people out there to take your money. My advice is for you to call 1-800-Pammy! ok thats not a good # Correct # is 727-546-0889 That is CYCLE-RAMA I don't know how close they are to you, but it would be worth the trip. Ask Smadd. Good work, smart motor people and you get to deal with Pammy. I would have used them but they are 500 miles away and I'm "skeered" of Pammy! Chip |
