| Author |
Message |
    
Ford92
| | Posted on Tuesday, May 04, 2010 - 11:43 am: | 
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Hi, This is my last try then I might just park it, till I get time to change it to carb. first the TPs will not zero out I tried two different ecm both stock it will only start and idle with the throttle almost closed will not take gas. I just put in a brand new fuel pump and spark plugs. |
Blake
| | Posted on Tuesday, May 04, 2010 - 01:51 pm: |
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Describe in excruciating detail what you are doing to "zero" the TPS.
Check injectors? |
Bluzm2
| | Posted on Tuesday, May 04, 2010 - 07:16 pm: |
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What Blake said.
Where you located? There may be someone here nearby that can lend a hand.
Brad |
Dave
| | Posted on Tuesday, May 04, 2010 - 08:37 pm: |
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Inspect the throttle body shaft butterfly for damage off center, cracks, bows? Early '99 VINs had cracked. Post City and as Brad suggested.
DAve |
Dave
| | Posted on Tuesday, May 04, 2010 - 09:06 pm: |
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Copy of Al's reset procure that worked for me.
DAve |
Ford92
| | Posted on Wednesday, May 05, 2010 - 10:19 am: |
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Hi, Sorry I did not get back to you sooner but I have been really busy. Blake, I try to follow ecm spy. After I was connected I went to the gage screen adj. to zero and little bit further. it said select functions tab so I selectd dianostics ( it dose not say functions) on the left bottom is 2 small boxs the top is tps reset which is blank the bottom says afv 100% I select TPS reset yes, a box comes up in the middle of the page I cannot do anything on this page. so Iwent to soft wear (VDSTS0 went to bar screen and reset it from there Its seems to me it should do more the idle even if the tps setting is off. By the way I live near glassboro NJ and do not know any other buell riders. Thanks Dave |
Kalali
| | Posted on Wednesday, May 05, 2010 - 12:27 pm: |
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It sounds like there is something wrong the way you are using the ECMSPY.You should be able to reset the TPS right in there. Do you have a copy of the ECMSPY Tuning Guide?
I'm not sure where Glassboro is but I live down the Shore just a couple of miles from Asbury Park. Shoot me a PM if you ever come this way. Will be happy to lend a hand. |
Blake
| | Posted on Wednesday, May 05, 2010 - 01:18 pm: |
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Your description seems to fall short of a detailed step by step description of your TPS reset efforts. If what you describe represents the extent of your efforts to reset the TPS, then your results are to be expected. The throttle plate must first be fully closed, meaning the idle adjustment screw must be backed off so that it no longer contacts the throttle when fully closed.
There is no "adjustment" needed unless the TPS voltage falls outside the range specified by the service manual. If that is the case, then and only then should the sensor itself be adjusted so that the voltage at idle is within the required range. Then after that you MUST perform another complete TPS reset procedure. |
Ford92
| | Posted on Thursday, May 06, 2010 - 09:48 am: |
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I have been trying to get this to run right longer then I like to admit. but it was not always doing the same thing. yes the throttle is fully closed. the Manuel gives me the voltage when hot idle at 0.5-1.5. I have not check this hot. according to the procure that Dave put on here that Al,has it should be .01 closed I have 3.82 closed? I have worked on cars with throttle body system and they were a some what problem also. |
Blake
| | Posted on Thursday, May 06, 2010 - 10:34 am: |
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Which manual are you talking about, ECMSpy or the factory service manual?
If you have 3.82 volts for a fully closed throttle, then that is likely a problem. Voltage should go up as the throttle opens. Sounds like either the sensor needs adjusted to get it within the proper voltage range or it is faulty and needs replaced.
As to the voltage measurement, I don't think hot or cold makes much difference. The issue is that the idle speed itself needs to be set in the specified range for a warmed up engine, not a cold engine.
When the idle is set within the specified range (1,050 to 1,150 rpm), then the voltage output of the throttle position sensor must fall within the required range. If it doesn't, then it (the sensor itself, not the throttle) needs to be adjusted to fall withing the required voltage range; then another complete TPS rezero procedure must be performed.
If any of the above are neglected the bike will likely run poorly.
The key to all this is to understand what exactly the TPS reset/rezero procedure does and why it is necessary.
A rezero of the TPS (throttle position sensor) is simply uploading to the ECM's memory the voltage output by the TPS that corresponds to a completely closed throttle (idle screw backed completely off and then some). This provides the ECM an absolute reference from which it then is able to provide the proper fuel and ignition mapping at all throttle positions.
If the ECM doesn't have a known and accurate reference for absolute throttle position, it cannot provide the proper amount of fuel or ignition advance.
Zat make sense?
(Message edited by blake on May 06, 2010) |
Ford92
| | Posted on Thursday, May 06, 2010 - 11:45 am: |
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I just did the whole procure that Al, laid out above. This is what is showing now. Degrees open 5.1, %5.9 volts 4.03. Now when I start It starts goes to around 3000 RPM and shuts off? What your telling me makes sense. what its doing don't make sense, at least to me it doesn't. |
Blake
| | Posted on Thursday, May 06, 2010 - 02:56 pm: |
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The voltage is out of bounds, way too high. Per your previous post it needs to be between 0.5 and 1.5 volts. Without any further adjustment to the throttle or idle screw, adjust the sensor itself so that its voltage output equals 1.0V.
Then perform another rezero as before. |
Ford92
| | Posted on Friday, May 07, 2010 - 11:09 am: |
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By the way I was talking about the factory service manual. Here is where I am now, I Unbolted the TPS sensor from the throttle body and the voltage reads 3.59 to over 4.5. I believe I need a new sensor? What do you think? |
Harleyelf
| | Posted on Friday, May 07, 2010 - 04:58 pm: |
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This all sounds so hauntingly familiar. My '99 S3T wouldn't run above idle, ran rough, stalled, and didn't care how many times I re-set the TPS. I finally changed out the ECM, injectors, head temp sensor, and the whole damn wiring harness and now it runs like new. A new sensor would be a good start. The head temp sensor often goes out at this age, too. Check all your connections around the module and the voltage regulator. Changing to a carb is overkill. |
Kalali
| | Posted on Friday, May 07, 2010 - 06:53 pm: |
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I don't know about the voltage but the 5.1 degree/5.9% is not that far off where it should be. Mine idles fine at around 4.7%. At 5.9% mine would probably idle at around 1800 RPM. The issue around it going up to 3000RPM and dieing may suggest something else including a bad TPS. |
Ford92
| | Posted on Saturday, May 08, 2010 - 11:34 am: |
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Well its going to take at least a week to get a new TPS sensor. Speaking about carburetors, How many M2's do you see on this forum? |
Blake
| | Posted on Saturday, May 08, 2010 - 12:31 pm: |
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Let's please stay on topic.
The readings in % or degrees for throttle position at idle will usually be accurate even if the actual voltage ouput is out of range. It is vital that the voltage be within the proper range. The readings in % or degrees for throttle position at idle are derived from the difference in voltage output at idle versus fully closed throttle.
The readings in % or degrees reflect the delta voltage and merely aid in getting initial idle setting in the ballpark, not too far from the specified speed. They in no way indicate whether the sensor is properly adjusted.
Make sense? |
Ford92
| | Posted on Saturday, May 08, 2010 - 12:59 pm: |
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This makes sense, but getting the voltage inline, I cannot do by adjusting the sensor or am I missing something here. |
Harleyelf
| | Posted on Saturday, May 08, 2010 - 02:35 pm: |
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This may seem off topic, but how's your horn? If it clicks with the engine not running and whimpers when the engine is running, your ground cable from the battery to the frame is corroded. Take it off, file both ends flat until shiny, and touch up the frame where it touches with a small wire wheel. If the ECM isn't grounded to the same circuit as the battery (there's a flat woven wire cable connecting engine to frame) it can cause all sorts of problems. Next step is to find that woven strap and scrape the corrosion off both ends. Lack of good ground kills more modules than vibration. That you had identical ECM-related issues from two ECMs is suspicious. You have a wiring issue. |
Ford92
| | Posted on Monday, May 10, 2010 - 09:32 am: |
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Well the horn works find. I really appreciate all the input and help I receive here,but right now except for I might replace the TPS sensor. Even tho I don't think that's the problem. I think, I'm going to park this for a while, till I make my mind what to do with it. There's only so much time in day.No,I will never part it out. |
Okimted
| | Posted on Tuesday, May 11, 2010 - 09:11 pm: |
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Just in case you need a engine temp sensor,I have one for your bike. I bought it after breaking my lead removing it for overhaul, turned out to be one in the new head. Let me know. |
Ford92
| | Posted on Thursday, May 13, 2010 - 10:52 am: |
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PM SENT |
Ford92
| | Posted on Monday, May 31, 2010 - 10:46 pm: |
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I haven't got back to doing anything to the buell. But I am thinking obout replacing the wiring harness, and want to know if a 2000 s3 harness will fit my 1999 s3 also will a 1999 x1 lighting fit? |
Shooter
| | Posted on Tuesday, June 01, 2010 - 12:55 pm: |
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The fuse "box" is in a different location on the X1. |
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