| Author | Message | ||
     Aaron |
Bill: Yes, the factory setup is to re-ingest the blow-by. Our EPA mandates such. The oil component is being picked up by the blow by gasses on the way from the rings to the head breathers. Plus, there's condensation in the motor, so what you have coming out the breathers is this air/oil/water mix. Yuk. That's why it's called a "puke" can. The motor runs better without shoving it back into the intake tract. I've proven it to myself on the dyno. See the Battle2win from about a year ago. Also, some people claim this puke contributes to premature carbon build-up in the chambers. They may be right, I don't know. The term "breather" just refers to the crankcase ventilation outlet, which there's one in each head. You can route it to the air cleaner, a "catch can" (puke can), or another popular option is to use a breather filter. This will allow the gases to escape but absorbs the liquid component. When the filter gets saturated, though, you need to clean or replace it. When doing those carb mods, there's 2 places to drill. One of them is absolutely essential, the removal of the plug over the mixture screw. Turning that mixture screw is a big part of fixing the carb, you have to do this one. The other mod, enlarging the hole in the slide, does almost nothing and it's real questionable in my mind whether it should be done at all. It's really easy to mess with these carbs, though, nothing to it, and it's needed even with the stock airbox and muffler IMO. I'd also recommend changing the float bowl screws for something with allen heads. See this page for more info. Troop is right, the race kit airbox costs a fair amount of knee space. I had one on my '99 M2 and took it off because it annoyed me so much, and I'm only 5'11". Went with a Force, which I'm very happy with. Good luck, AW | ||
| Cyclonem2drew |
Can anyone explain the effects of outside air temperature on carburation, particluarly on jetting? I was watching the Daytona 500 Happy Hour, and D.W. was commenting on how with the colder temps, the jetting on the engines would have to be changed from practice. As my M2 w/Thunderslide is not running all that well, I'm thinking that I should wait until the warm weather before making changes. Thoughts? | ||
| Aaron |
colder weather = denser air = leaner | ||
| Mikej |
Back in an earlier life I used to pack ice on top of the intake manifold of my car at the drag strip, or for "important" industrial park drags. Seemed to really boost the performance (until the ice melted, but by then the race was over). The 12 second 'cuda could never figure out why at the track my '67 Chevelle only turned low 13's, but on the street he could never beat me. Shhhhh, don't tell. I don't know if this is relevant to the discussion, but I'm going to bed now anyway.  | ||
| Bigblock |
I re-drilled the airr cleaner backing plate mounting holes on my Buell race aircleaner so that the airfilter sits against the small plastic "velocity stack" and gained about an inch of knee clearance. I'm 6' with long legs, knee clearance was a prob till I did this. No performance loss at all. Hope this helps someone! | ||
| Blake |
Aaron: Does a CV carb (stock Keihein) help to compensate for variations in air density? | ||
| Aaron |
Blake: I have no authoritative knowledge on that. Personal experience indicates that it's much more forgiving than, for example, the Mikuni, when it comes to elevation changes, but that's at least somewhat subjective. Someday I need to drag a Dyno up Trail Ridge Road and then I can answer your question! Just looking at the design, it would seem to make sense, since the needle position is regulated by the airflow, and the density of that air whooshing by would seem to make a difference. I'm thinking that if the air is less dense, at a given velocity the needle won't lift as much hence less fuel can come up the nozzle. Hey, you're the ME, you probably studied all that stuff, what do you think? AW | ||
| Blake |
Aaron, I agree with what you just theorized. My experiences and the relative commonality of CV carb jetting from FL to CO that I've seen stated on the BBS also seem to bear out our common observations. I also believe that achieving the forgiving nature of the CV carb was the primary goal of it's designers. B | ||
| Ralph |
And how. bighairyralph | ||
| Loki |
I don't want to step on any toes here. Just bear with me a moment. In a CV carb, we know that the needle is lifted from the jet by vaccum. The vaccum signal is controlled by the amount of air passing thru the carb throat. This is controlled by the position of the butterfly. The spring in the vaccum chamber gives you a predictable response to a vaccum signal and allows the needle to return. From what I was taught any air density corrections are an unintended by product of the carb design. I used to run with a guy who tuned(tweaked) his race bike by altering the spring tension in the carbs. On acceleration the carbs would mimica slider carb, closing the throttle was a different story. He had to think way ahead. You go to a SLIDE carb(Mikuni RS)and you need to know your engines habits. The needle position is directly controlled by you. You twist the throttle, the needle pulls, the gas flows. Wether or not the engine can actually use it all. Think of the CV carb as a vaccum secondary four barrel. It gives the motor what it can use when it can use it. The SLIDER as a double pumper, here comes the gas wether or not it can all be used. Don't even think about a PREDATOR carb, those things are strange..... just some basic thoughts here | ||
| Blake |
No problem Loki, I wear boots. | ||
| Troop |
Just ordered my YoDude intake today. Natural,polished intake/yellow catchcan/black pre-filter for my 00 reactor yellow M2.Should look real good when it's installed. I'll keep every informed of the product once I get/install it. Troop | ||
| Blake |
Blow-by and condensation... Until Ron Dickey pointed it out, I never really thought about how much blow-by contributes to the crank-case breather circuit pukage. Ever notice how much water pours out of your car exhaust when first started on a cold day? That condensate is from water vapor produced during the combustion process. In simplified Chemistry terms neglecting the components that are just along for the ride (nitrogen, etc) ... Hydrocarbons + Oxygen ==> Carbon Dioxide + Carbon Monoxide + Water C?H?+O ==> CO2 + CO + H2O Add more hydrocarbon into that mix from the oil vapor that gets carried form the crank-case into the breather circuit and you can see how a load of nutritious blowby pukage can build up in a hurry. Someone needs to invent a better set of rings it seems to me. | ||
| Ralph |
Gosh, if only we knew a mechanical engineer. I'm sure he could invent a better ring. HEHEHEHEHE Actually, "The Hudsucker Proxy" comes to mind. You know, looks like this - O Boy, I'm killin' me. bighairyralph | ||
| Ducboy |
HELP I just installed the Buell race carbon fiber air cleaner on my 00 M2. I guess i'd never seen a front or top view as there is over an inch of naked K&N showing. Is this the normal situation? Is there a thinner element available?If you want to talk about ingesting puke, how about a ton of water washing through if riding or racing in rain? | ||
| Peter |
Ducboy. It's normal. I've ridden mine in torential downpours, and never sucked in water. If it is oiled properly it shouldn't give you any problem. The only thing I've needed to keep an eye on, is the aluminium plate bending a bit and allowing a gap between it and the filter. I keep the edge of the filter smeared with silicone grease, and tweak the back plate regularly. Just something to watch. PPiA | ||
| Ralph |
I second what Peter Pan says. Never had a problem in the rain (or otherwise). You could use a thinner Sportster Screamin' Eagle (K&N) filter but you'll be giving up performance. There is a reason it's so wide. bighairyralph | ||
| Ducboy |
Thanks for the quick reply. I'm still amazed at the crummy appearance and that Buell just raised the price from $197 to $289. The construction is pathetic and ill-fitting. The crude aluminum backplate looks homemade, no wonder it bends and allows a leak. You can see that they put a bend in it (visible from top of bike even when cover is on) in order to make it stiffer. This piece is an embarassment on my bike. For the price, the fasteners should be titanium, not cheap steel hex-bolts. The carbon piece is nice. | ||
| Cyclonem2drew |
Hey Ducboy, They do sell "rain socks" for the K & N filters, which block out the rain and only reduce airflow by about 10%. Don't quote me, but I think you can get them from ASB or from K & N directly. I have one for my Force (K&N)...same idea. I know they make one for the oval. BTW...you wouldn't want a thinner filter...less surface area = less airflow. | ||
| Al_Lighton |
Duc, That sounds a bit harsh, considering its application. It IS sold as a RACE aircleaner, ya know, it's not a Harley for-show unit. The race muff is also fairly brutal looking, they didn't apparently design these parts for aesthetics first, performance second. Yea, it's a bit spendy for what it is, but the filter alone is $50+, and if you price other CF pieces, it's not too tough to see how they got to the price. The billet Westek is $349, the Bartels CF trapeziodal unit is $300, and everything except the filter, CF part, and breather bolts is $149 from Tat. All that said, you can improve the aesthetics a bit for cheap. Grab a file and smooth and round the as-punched edges of the sheet metal, then buff the edges, 1/2" of the face, and the tops of those stiffening bends on a polishing wheel. The spacer ring also polishes nicely in about 1 minute on the wheel. Total time is about 45 minutes complete, and it does look worlds better. Yea, they could do all this at Buell, but then they'd charge you even more. And for the racers, it'd be a waste of their money. As far as the space goes, well, it IS an air filter, it has to get in somewhere, and less restriction is better. I personally think it looks better than hanging a filter on the end of a snorkel like a Force/Yodude, or a hypercharger thingie. But that's all 100% IMHO, YMMV. Al | ||
| Jiml |
Hey Al, You've got a way with words. Couldn't of said it any better myself. I've also got the race ac on both of my Buells. later, jiml | ||
| Ducboy |
Hey, you guys have a lot to say which makes me feel a little better and i especially like the idea of beautifying the backing plate with some shaping and polishing which i am actually good at and did not think of. i still believe that all the fasteners should be titanium for the price. Aluminum fasteners would work as they are lightly loaded. (often used on motocross bikes to save weight) | ||
| Ralph |
Wait, your going to polish the BACK PLATE??!! bighairyralph | ||
| Blake |
bhr! Is that a euphemism or what!? Take it to the NC17/R- page nasty boy! LOL!!! | ||
| Al_Lighton |
BHR, The edges and the front surface of the back plate, as well as the stiffening flanges, are quite visible from anything other than a perfect side view. It does make a difference on how clean that filter looks on the bike, since those sheared edges are completely undressed, and the curved edge is clearly multi punched by a series of flat punches. It surprises me they look so coarse, because most sheet metal shops will at least dress sheared edges as a matter of course. Polishing the spacer is truly going overboard, since it's almost impossible to see, except from the riding position. But it does take all of 1 minute to do, so I did. The devil's in details, ya know.... OK, I admit it, I'm a little nuts too. Al | ||
| Ralph |
Al, it sure looks like that. I've seen it on mine. I guess I just don't care enough 'cause it'll look like that forever. I never fit in the Harley crowd because I just don't place that much importance on what the bike looks like in details such as that. I love the line of the Buells, the over-all appearance. Shiny little bits do nothing for me unless they actually accomplish something. For instance, I was thinking about polishing my new swingarm but then I would never stop polishing it. You never polish something once. Later I will sand blast my new wheels (wrong color, bronze) and polish the edges. Why? Because the edges get beat up when the tire gets changed and it only takes a second to get it right again. Polish the whole wheel? Never. I'd rather be riding than polishing the bike. bighairyralph Sorry to get you excited over nothing Blake, but that's just me, not a particular piece. | ||
| Reepicheep |
Anybody have any experience with the following company or product? http://www.eurocomponentsusa.com/baircl_buell.html I am looking for a better looking airbox for my 2000 cyclone... I don't need a performace boost, just an aesthetic upgrade. This looks interesting, not sure if it cuts into knee room. They don't post prices, but I emailed a request. I will post the price when I hear it. Bill | ||
| Jerome |
Bill : the Odyssey Kolors aircleaner sold by Eurocomponents is made in Toulouse, France. I've been there to see how it is made (better than just a picture). The design is very simple : a back plate, a foam filter and a cover attached to the OEM front fitting. It looks nice, it gives as much knee room as OEM, but I think that you loose quite a lot in terms of performance with this system. The foam area is quite reduced. In addition, the foam has a tendancy to become very oily and to drip oil after a while. On my side, I prefer to go for the Force big daddy (indeed its german counterpart : the RRC aircleaner) : a lot of knee room (better than stock), great performance linked to big filter area and nice agressive look as well (the RRC has a carbon fiber 90° elbow). Just my 0.02 cents... | ||
| Blake |
Jerome: Bartel's CF airbox rules! Looks killer and sounds beastly. Get it at ASB along with matching K&N filter for roughly $300. Tell him Blake sent ya and Tat will charge you a 10% penalty LOL. | ||
| Jiml |
BHR, Hey you don't have to convince me about the shiny things. Remember I've seen your bike in person. hahahaha And folks BHR is correct that shiny stuff won't be seen. Got to have a little fun with ya. later, jiml |
