| Author | Message | ||
     Buellnick |
Do not tighten to 26-29 FtLbs (as stated in the latest owners manual or the latest service manual... | ||
| Saratoga |
I thougt that was kinda high for a drain plug with a boss o-ring. Good thing I didn't follow the instructions for once... replaced the o-ring with a 90 durometer viton one from my handy kit, smeared some of that nasty thread sealant on the plug and snugged it by hand with a 5/8"(?) wrench. | ||
| Buellnick |
Issue fixed. I now have a new SwingArm under warranty thanks to my local dealer. I asked the service tech about torque values... ADVICE TO ALL... 12-15 Ft Lbs. The manuals are still wrong! | ||
| Brownie |
2009 XB12R first oil change. Plug comes out hard with threads. I reinstalled it at 26 ft lbs, guess what. Dealer say's never heard about this, we did not do it not our problem. It sits at the shop for a week and the dealer gives me Buell Customer Service number. I was told," Not a warranty issue, we fixed the manual misprints in 2006, the 2007 to 2009 correct torque rating is 26 to 29 ft lbs." Picked the bike up with no plug or oil. Filled it in the parking lot. Rode it home. Ordered the time-sert fix. It worked great. I am glad that Buellnick had a great local dealer to help him out. My local dealer has three used bikes for sale that have all been fixed with a collar welded on the outside and then retapped. | ||
| 996dl |
As far as I understand, the primary's drain bolt is also a 1/2" x 20 and the oem torque specs listed are way too high as well, so use the same common sense with retorquing the primary drain bolt as well... 996DL | ||
| Buellnick |
Noted one manual has really wide range for the primary drain bolt... 14-34? If 14 is nominal and in spec...why go that much higher? Also, as bolts get re-used the materials get weaker especially if you already cranked them on the high side. This is steel and aluminum... My recommendation - 17 FtLbs on the primary drain. | ||
| Buellnick |
Also not surprised about the dealer response. They are usually not willing to help anyone who does their own service and something goes wrong. I was lucky with my dealer... one of the best Buell friendly dealers in the country! I want to believe that HD/Buell printed the torque specs in error and because of ignorance or incompetence, the manuals were never changed. I don't want to believe that this was a big conspiracy to scare "ordinary" (non-tech) people away from doing basic service on their own bikes and drum up service business. However, I do wonder sometimes why they got something so simple - so wrong... and they never did anything to correct it... Hmmm. As I recall my first XB had an oil drain torque value of 16FtLbs... worked well every time with no signs of thread shavings. | ||
| Court |
>>>the manuals were never changed. One of the reasons I was always an advocate for customers (there was actually a process where you'd become a "Buell Gold" member or something like that and have access to some stuff) having access to a constantly updated set of manuals. As it stands now . . . . I have every Buell manual ever published and am not certain that any of them are truly up to date. Buell, as in The Elves, was working on ways to do this as far back as 1997 that would have broken new ground in the area of customer service. Harley-Davidson is scared to death of getting too close to their customers and, as a result, nothing ever got any traction. Those of you who have had any dealings with Erik Buell Racing have had a glimpse of just how cool it could have been. | ||
| Berto |
If you need to read the manual just to change the oil should you really be working on the bike to begin with? | ||
| 2008xb12scg |
some of us just started serviceing our own bikes, the reason we read the manaul (among others) is for the torque specs.. | ||
| Court |
Frankly . . . . working on a bike WITHOUT first reading the manual is as foolish as flying an airplane without reading the Pilot's Operating Manual. You may decide to do things differently but if you are not aware of the contents of the service manual you're really flying blind. I'm not, by any stretch of the imagination, a skilled mechanic, but I've managed to work on my own stuff since the 1960's and always start by reading how the factory SAYS it should be done. Having worked with some of the technicians who wrote the procedures for the Technical Publications group I know that quite a bit of work went into them. I suspect that the reason some bikes get hauled, half way through a project, to a dealer . . are the result of someone who thought they knew more than the folks who designed and built it. Opinions will vary. . . . that's just mine. | ||
| Fasted |
oil changes are the perfect way to begin working on a bike. the service manual provides solace and comfort concerning mechanical repair and maintenance for many just as a bible does for spiritual matters. just like a bible, in the service manual there are some things we take as gospel, and others as merely guidelines and suggestions. so it is written, so it shall be done.... | ||
| Court |
You forgot the other similarity between the service manual and the Bible . . . short cuts have consequences. Amen | ||
| Brownie |
My family's quality of life is based on my ability to read the service manual. Fix the problem and torque every nut and bolt to the spec. in sequence. Without the service manual and following it to the letter, I am the person who will be held responsible if an aerial manlift falls from the sky. I follow service manuals, with torque and paint marks. | ||
| Upswept |
Is everyone sure that the torque wrenches are not the problem? If you're using a wrench made in China (like Harbor Freight, Northern Tool, Wal-Mart, etc.), and you set it for a specific setting, and it clicks when you tighten the plug, it is not necessarily clicking at the setting that you chose. In my career, I used to check the accuracy of all the torque wrenches and the Chinese wrenches were throw away items. We would make the mechanics buy a Snap-On or Mac or Proto, or Craftsman (not Sears) and use only those during work hours. I think the problem is in your use of Chinese tools. | ||
| Buellnick |
The torque spec is too high. You don't have to believe... just keep torquing to the published (wrong) spec and you will find out for yourself. Even the best tools will over torque the oil drain because the published spec is WRONG! BTW: don't forget to relieve tension on the dial-wrenches. | ||
| Court |
The entire "where are they made?" opens up a good deal of debate. I'm not knowledgable about all of it (all of my tools were bought in the days when hardly any tools were imported and I walked around the Klein plant in Moran, KS before it opened and picked out all my stuff. When Irwin started moving Vise-Grip production overseas I went and bought all the MADE IN USA copies I could find) but it certainly gets interesting.
http://www.stillmadeinusa.com/tools.html http://toolmonger.com/2006/11/10/hands-on-mac-tool s-foose-special-edition-tool-box-set/ Point is . . just because it says "Snap-On" or "MAC" . . . no longer NECESSARILY means "MADE IN USA". | ||
| Upswept |
If any Snap-On or Mac are made outside the USA, they are made to Snap-On or Mac specs and the materials will be or the correct strength. Their warranty will remain the same. Stripped allen and torx bolt heads were probably stripped by Chinese tools. Don't believe me? Buy a new, never used allen or torx bolt from a H-D dealer. Then, get a Snap-On or Mac bit and feel how tight it is in the head of the bolt. Now, feel a bit from Harbor Freight. Very sloppy and ready to round out the head. Then guys will cuss the manufacturer for making "cheap" bolts. Chinese torque wrenches are and should be thrown away. My Harley has the same drain plug bolt into an aluminum case and I torque it to 20 ft/lbs each time that I change the oil. 40,000 miles and no problem. I'm not saying that the Buell torque specs are too high; I'm just saying that with a good torque wrench, it might be just right. Just stay out of harbor freight. | ||
| Buell_bert |
Ok I hope this does not come back to bite me BUT. I have torqued many things over the years but never an oil pan drain plug and of course many other things. I have never lost one (the plug)or had one leak unless by the rare occasion that the gasket was damaged. There are some things that I still can feel it is tight enough and if I reef on it further spontaneous disassembly will occur. When yur out in the middle of who knows where and workin with who knows what kind of tools you will know what will get you back to town. | ||
| Buellnick |
Talk about quality tools is far more interesting and useful than raising questions about the toque spec which is known to be wrong... | ||
| J2blue |
Dang, I've been doing it wrong for years! I just tighten to the right feel, taking into account the relative strength of a washer so as not to crush it. My dad taught me that by screaming at me enough when I was younger. I know there is a torque setting for every single bolt on the bike, and I'm sure it is important to use those specs when assembling at a factory, but does every single bolt have to be set with a torque wrench when working from home?(Rhetorical) |
