| Author | Message | ||
     Fulgur |
Greetings all. OK here's the scoop... I had the woodruff key in the gear case break and it damaged some of the gears too. I have replaced the key + cam gears and lined up all V's and dots. Bolted everything back together. The front pot fires but the rear pot don't and seems to be spitting back into the intake (big time) like the exhaust and intake valves are opening at the wrong time but I cant see how at the moment. Can someone assist? Have I done (or forgot) something stupid? ......Fulgur. | ||
| Scrap |
Hi Fulgur, This is a pretty common problem with the XL's because the Woodruf is so small. You said that you replaced the gears? Just the number 2? Were the cams Redshifts, Andrews or OEM? Just need a little more background before we get started. Also, when the key broke did it bend valves? I would guess probably and if the intake valve is bent you could be gettin' combustion coming back out the intake. Did you comp test/leak down both holes to make sure? Richard Nallin (Message edited by scrap on February 22, 2007) | ||
| Fulgur |
Yo Scrap - thanks for the reply, Only the N#2 (big one) was was damaged but I got hold of a full set of OEM (I am resisting the temptation to hop this one up as much as possible as I have other play bikes). I was thinking that the engine is "safe". Cant be 100% sure the valve aint bent if it is not a safe motor. I didnt hear the valves hit the piston and I had the rochers off to get the gears out/in as the valve springs put presure on the pushrods etc down to the gears and made it nesersary to get some movement. ??????? | ||
| Pammy |
Here's a trick. Take the sparkplugs out and put your finger over the hole. See if it 'pops' your finger off the hole. If it doesn't...you probably have a bent valve. When the valves stop moving(when the key broke) and the pistons are still moving(I assume the bike was running) you have a high likelyhood of bending at least one valve. | ||
| Pammy |
I didn't mean to get all high tech on ya...  | ||
| Blake |
Which finger?  | ||
| Fulgur |
Cheers Pammy. So I take it you are definately sure that it is not a "safe" engine in the XB12R. | ||
| Pammy |
If you mean the valves safe from the pistons, then no, they are not. The trick is to loc-tite(green) the pinion gear to the shaft, then loc-tite(red) the nut on. That helps keep the key from shearing in the future. But I fear your valve(s) is a loss. | ||
| Xldevil |
The trick is to loc-tite(green) the pinion gear to the shaft, then loc-tite(red) the nut on. } And to use a torque wrench! I think lots of people skip or disregard that point. Ralph | ||
| Fulgur |
Thanks for the replies all. The word that springs to mind about the "safe" bit is B"£$%^&S. I was discounting a valve as I thought it wouldn't hit. Oh well I best do some more testing, drop the engine again and possibly get the lapping compound out. I have a nice selection of torque wrenches (and use them). Gona try the loc-tite trick too while I am there. I have to go away for work for the next week or so. I'll post my findings after that. Cheers for now.......Add. | ||
| Kilroy |
I had the exact same symptoms when trying to start my bike after ingesting a screw. Compression test confirmed the bent intake valve, among other things. Please post some pix of the damaged gear if you have any - it would be interesting to see. | ||
| Jimidan |
Do Pammy's test before you drop the engine! If it doesn't pop your finger off on the compression stroke, then look further like Richard suggests. Always do the easiest/simpler things first. Don't ask me how I know this!  | ||
| Fulgur |
OK - just to teez you for now. Here is the gear that seezed due to the oil channel getting clogged up, which broke the woodruf key. I like the way that things got so hot that the two mettals have fused. And NO I didnt feel a thing, just 30 seconds of a strainge squishy squishy noise and then nothing. I dont have the compression. I was so sure that the engine was safe and that I had messed with the gears that I discounted the valve (my mistake, even after years of engine work sometimes you need a wakeup call). This is gona be an expensive repair. Better check the push rods too. My Bro tried to make me feel better by giving me a quote he got from his local dealer if I had just taken it to them (it only half helped  ). It's all a bit upsetting as my servicing is maticulas and I use good oil and filters etc. I'll put more pix up as they come but as of tomorrow I am globe trotting for work again. By the way as I was in the aria I thought I would have a bit of a play. I have added an oil temp' meter and will probably be adding a few other changes to see what is fun (pix to come). Cheers for now.....Fulgur. | ||
| Fulgur |
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| Fulgur |
 sorry that the pix aint great. Computers aint my thing. | ||
| Pammy |
Just looking at that photo, looks like your case may be toast as well. Looks like the cam bushing wallowed out the case...bad. | ||
| Firemanjim |
That is ugly,good luck. | ||
| Fulgur |
Thanks all for now - I am away from my workshop for the next two weeks due to work. Latest testing shows that the rear pot is screwed (don't know how bad yet), so some gory pictures coming your way soon I reckon. I have had some other problems with this bike so I am thinking of dropping the engine right out and stripping the bike down for a complete rebuild. I'll upgrade what I can afford to make it more reliable but I have to admit that I wouldn't have got a Buell if I had known how unreliable it would be. Thats one of the reasons I call her "The Mistress" cuz when she is going well she is a hell of a ride but she can be a nightmare too. I hope all of you have better luck. Till next time......Fulgur. | ||
| Pammy |
Fulgar, you may not be rebuilding with those cases. You need to check the hole that had the spun bushing. Looks like it's whipped to me. If you could take a closer picture, things might look different. Nah, it's toast. Bad news sir. | ||
| Rocketman |
Couldn't the hole be machined round and a bush made to fit using phosphor bronze or similar? Just a thought. Rocket | ||
| Oldog |
Couldn't the hole be machined round and a bush made to fit using phosphor bronze or similar? I would think so too how ever, In that alignment is important in the gear case and the hole may not be concentric to the needed center line I would think long and hard about it. When bored straight will the case take the loads? A weld-up might work if the case does not warp badly. | ||
| Justin_case |
There is a HD Jig to ream the 4 cam bushings. Weld up the hole, ream it out with the tool, bore the hole to original size, press in a new cam bushing, ream with the tool, done. Certainly worth a try. | ||
| Pammy |
I have seen the bushing replaced with larger bearings. Line boring would be required to make that right. I would check in to replacing the cases since I have it that far apart. Unfortunately, in this case, if the fix doesn't work you are out a lot. Justin, the bushing is not the problem, the case is. Getting that hole concentric is paramount. If it were me, I wouldn't risk it. | ||
| Justin_case |
The reaming jig would be used to locate the hole in the welded-up repair. It would also need spot-facing down to the level of the other 3 holes. I would try this before trashing the cases. | ||
| Pammy |
If he decides to try that solution, I would like to know how it turns out. I do wish him the best. Do you know of a machine shop that has tried this approach? How much? Results? Longevity? | ||
| Justin_case |
Haven't heard of this being tried. Just trying to give the guy a quick and dirty solution. | ||
| Steveshakeshaft |
I've recliamed worse than that on other machines, but costs stack up quickly on jobs like this. I'd look at new I think. | ||
| Pammy |
"I've recliamed worse than that on other machines, but costs stack up quickly on jobs like this. I'd look at new I think." And that is what I am saying. I won't even repair my own, at cost...Not worth it, or the risk of starting over again. | ||
| Rocketman |
I'd give it a go. I'd not attempt to add any weld to the case in the pic though. The alloy Buell use requires special welding techniques beyond the norm. I'd clamp that case down and plot the centre of the hole, then machine a larger hole to accept an oversize phosphor bronze bush. You guys want to see what the fella who rebuilt my S&S crank does in his garden shed. No not that. I mean engineering. He even casts alloy type covers and cases using old pictures for reference, which was the case when rebuilding the only N.U.T in existence. Nothing's impossible. Rocket | ||
| Fulgur |
Hi all. I've been away in London on work till now. The bush and hole it goes in are fine, just the pic looks weird. Next step is still to get the head off the rear pot and check out what is causing this spit back into the intake. I'll see if I have time to get into the workshop tomorrow. I have been awake since yesterday morning so I thought I'd better get some sleep before taking some tools to an engine. I hope to have some answers and pix soon. Chears....Fulgur. |
