| Author | Message | ||
     Rick_A |
I'm not claiming to be an expert, Blake...and you've made some assertions of your own. I would personally rather play it safe. I'm just going by what I see as reasonable from the rather varied info that I've run across. Sources differ. Oh well. Every source has their own version of the facts. Unless you can irrefutably prove and define the properties, composition, molecular structure, applications, advantages/disadvantages, etc. of every synthetic or petroleum motorcycle oil I'm not going to see any of it as fact...and will continue to believe what I do. please also offer the qualifications that allow you to discern fact from fiction when interpreting technical information about motor oil? Well then, where's your credentials? | ||
| Buelliedan |
Rick, You do know that Blakes an engineer right?? Doh!! | ||
| Ara |
"We are now in the hands of engineers." Quote from the movie Jurassic Park. :-) | ||
| Rick_A |
An engineer in the oil industry? Well, this is my final "stance" on the break-in thing. I think it'd be pretty much a given that a petroleum oil would make for a quicker break-in, wouldn't it? Wouldn't that be a reason to use it if just for that? Correct me if I'm wrong as if I'd have to ask  I got my source on that from an old textbook probably written by some old-timers  | ||
| Hootowl |
Dan, Found a small flaw in that. Amsoil says that Gulf Oil was acquired by Chevron. Not exactly. The Gulf Oil company (Chemicals.. after all we're talking about PAO here) was acquired by Phillips Petroleum, which then merged its chemical business with Chevron (Chevron Phillips Chemical) who makes PAO (polyalfaolefins) among other things. | ||
| Lgpch |
I hope I posted this in the right section. Does anyone out there know if a braided oil line kit for an S1 would fit on a 2000 M2? I would hate to waste the money and time on it if it won't work. If not, the other option would be to just pull off the lines and then measure them, order them, send the check, and wait..... | ||
| Chucks1w |
My head is spinning! Someone please just tell me what is the preferred synthetics to use in my S1W. I'm gonna take my chances. How about the Ford filter? What's the final consensus on that? Thanks. | ||
| Reepicheep |
mobil 1 vtwin... an overpriced, fantastic, ultra high quality oil for your Buell. mobil 1 15-50. Probably as good. Cheaper and easier to find. Ford Filters... Dependent on the brand, but a good one is as good or better then the hd filter, has a greater capacity, and looks better on the bike (if you can find a black one... try Bosch at Autozone). IMHO | ||
| Ara |
I agree with Reepicheep. I've used Mobil 1 15w-50 for years on my '97 S3 with good results. I can't imagine that the Mobil 1 V-Twin oil will produce measureable improvments except perhaps in very severe usage. Also use Mobil 1 synthetic gear lube in place of Sport Trans, also with good results. Concerning the Ford-style oil filters, the Bosch is a good product. Also have a look at the Mobil 1 filter for the same (Motorcraft FL-1A and FL-300) applications. | ||
| Bomber |
Chuck . . .you're looking for consensus here? lemme know if you find some (although reep likely represents a majority view) | ||
| Hootowl |
I normally use Redline 20W50, but ran out (I have to mail order it or drive 60 mile to buy it) and used Mobil 15W50. I don't think you're going to go wrong with any major brand synthetic. I hear good things about Royal Purple too. | ||
| Lornce |
Motorcycle specific oils *should* contain greater amounts of zinc-phosphorus ZDDP (anti wear additives) than conventional oils. These additives help at high stress/oil shear/heat points like cam faces and followers (which may be reduced by roller cams?) and piston/cylinder thrust faces. It'd be interesting/useful to know if there's a difference, and what the differences are, in the additive compounds used in Mobil 1 marketed as *V-Twin* and conventional Mobil 1. best, Lornce | ||
| Blake |
The anti-wear additives become active when metal to metal contact occurs; they are then chemically transformed and drop out of solution as a solid protective compound. Anti-wear compounds can therefore become gradually depleted from the oil. However, before becoming depleted, higher concentrations of anti-wear additives do not protect any better than lesser concentrations, more would last longer is all. But there is a problem with putting too much of anti-wear additives into engine oil; they tend to produce very nasty deposits within the combustion chamber. It has been revealed, by Motorcycle Consumer News I believe, that most motorcycle specific oils contain equivalent or lesser concentrations of anti-wear compounds compared to their automotive counterparts. | ||
| Lornce |
Blake, This is interesting, and a little counter to what I've been led to believe about Golden Spectro's M/C specific oils. They claim more of the anti-wear additive package, including zinc-phosphorus ZDDP. Don't know about other brands. Had been using Canadian Tire Brand's M/C specific oil *assuming*, like Golden Spectro, it too would contain additional anti-wear additives. It's also pretty cheap and available anywhere in Canada. Switched to Mobil 1's generic 15-50 because of convincing arguments of superior stability at higher operating temps. Having said all that, in 300k miles of motorcycling, I've never suffered an oil related engine failure. I'm guessing most automotive oils are gonna do just fine in the right viscosity if changed before they've become contaminated with suspended carbon deposits and depleted of anti-wear additives... best, Lornce | ||
| Sarodude |
"Oil Related Engine Failure" I SUSPECT the only true occurence of such a thing is one in which there's a LACK of oil / oil pressure. In practice here, folks... -Saro | ||
| Reepicheep |
Lornce... Try and get a straight answer out of Golden Spectro as to *exactly* what brands they are comparing with. In particular, look for comparison with a good quality brand of car oil, like Castrol GTX for non-synthetic, and Mobil 1 for synthetic. Don't hold your breath waiting for an answer. | ||
| Bomber |
I ran Golden Spectro in the thumper for years, and it seemed to do a good job . . . . .however, trying to get info out of them was frustrating at best, so I gave up . . .. . | ||
| Reepicheep |
I did not mean to imply that Golden Spectro is a bad oil, it is a very good oil. I might have meant to imply that Castrol GTX is a "very good oil" as well, and about half the price, and that Mobil 1 synthetic is superior to Golden Spectro non-synthetic in every measurable regard, for about the same price.  Ask them for concrete, verifiable, and relevant facts, and watch them duck and run for cover. And not just Golden Spectro, it seems every manufacturer of motorcycle oils (Harley, Honda, you name them) go back to FUD tactics when asked why we should use their premium priced oils. I am not a lubrication expert. But I *can* recognize smoke and mirrors when I see them, and that is all I have seen in defense of "specially formulated motorcycle oils". IMHO | ||
| Bomber |
LGPCN -- every get an answer to your question? I'm curious as well Reep -- didn't think you were badrappin GS . . . . nor was I . . . their products seem fine, it's their willingness to commo that suffers (and that of most manufacurers, as you stated) . . . . Washington DC is not the only place selling snake oil (smile) | ||
| Blake |
I think HD/Buell have finally taken note and decided to settle the never ending debate over Synthetic oil. Read...
To all the doubters... let the crow be served. | ||
| Aaron |
They're also advertising a "three-synthetic basestock formula". Hmm, where have we heard that before? | ||
| Ara |
H-D speaks and the controversy is magically over? Come on. Don't get me wrong, I'm firm believer in synthetic oil and have used Mobil 1 in everything I own, including the S3, for many years. But this announcement isn't about lubrication science or chemical engineering, it's about profit. And at $8.25 a quart, H-D reaps those profits. Anybody know who makes this oil? | ||
| Bomber |
I thought I felt a tremor from up North yesterday . . . . | ||
| Jrh |
Well,im gonna try to get to a dealer and see what the printing on the bottle says but i don't really expect to learn much from that.My concern is that the 2 oil types won't mix(as in 2 stroke dino added to synthetic turned into a thick glob) My big question is this,since now most people will be switching to someones synthetic oil,how do you drain the last couple ounces from the primary without pulling off the entire cover assembly+is there some kind of purging procedure to flush the remaining dino oil from the oil tank, pump system?Thanks in advance. | ||
| Bomber |
jrh . . .the 5-quart oil change should do fine, though I'm sure someone will point out the there will always be an atom or two of the old stuff left behind no matter how careful you are to change it all | ||
| Mikej |
This subject has come up in the past. Some say drain, fill/run/mix, drain again. Others say to drop the oil line at the filter to purge the engine. If I switch I'll just do a regular change, then change it again after a semi-short interval. I don't think the blend will turn into a thick glob, but I could be wrong. But first I've got about a case of dino-stuff to go thru.  | ||
| Davegess |
I wonder who won this business fight? Mobil or H-D? I'm thinking that H-D finally gave in and reduce their margin on this item. My thinking on this has been that Mobil would not sell H-D oil at a price that would allow H-D to keep their usual oil margin ANF keep the price below $10 a quart. I am thinking that H-D caved and perhaps Mobil moved a bit also. H-D has been fighting a losing battle againest synthetic for years only because they could not buy it a price they liked. Perhaps they have decided that a smaller margin is better than no sale at all? | ||
| Bomber |
Logic? say it ain't so! | ||
| Mikej |
So, is the consensus that this is the Mobil1 or the V-Twin blend/mix/formulation? I was thinking it might be the I wonder how this stuff tastes on pancakes? | ||
| Nevco1 |
If it is Mobile1, it is a very reliable product. The conversion from regular to synthetic is merely a matter of simple oil changes. No five quart flush or quick second change after a short run in period is required. However, more frequent oil changes are cheap insurance. Concerning pricing, the OEM merely discounted their marketing costs from the product to allow Harley to add theirs. Is cheaper for them to do this than to introduce new lines and DBA's. Looks like a win-win-win situation for the OEM, Harley and the consumer. |
