| Author |
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Hkwan
| | Posted on Monday, October 24, 2005 - 12:53 pm: | 
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I might have crossed some wires or what not when I relocated the horn. I took the front fairing and light assembly out to get to the horn. All I did was unplugged the horn, unbolted the horn, separated the two horn wires from the bunch. Then I remounted the horn below the fairing (so the horn can be more exposed and louder).
I did push the wire harness around and don't know if I have shorted out something. The first time when I turn the key to "on" everything acted as normal- gauges swept, lights on, pump primed. But when I hit the ignition button, it when "click", then all the lights were off (dash, headlight). I turned off the key and turn it on again, still nothing.
I checked the battery - good. No loose cable. ONLY thing I did between the last time it ran and now is the horn project.
I checked all the fuses on the right side of the dash, all checked out. Would it be one of the three relays on the left side? How do I know if a relay is good or bad? |
Hkwan
| | Posted on Monday, October 24, 2005 - 12:59 pm: |
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Oh, forgot to mention that now when I turn the key there is no light, but when I turn the key off, after 2 seconds, the gauges would sweep (still no lights whatsoever)once. Then.. nothing again. |
Henrik
| | Posted on Monday, October 24, 2005 - 03:42 pm: |
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I know you checked, but everything you write seems to point to the battery, battery wires, ground cable - that sort of thing. How about a double check, then charge the battery and maybe have the battery load tested.
Do you hear any "clicking" sound from the relays when you turn the key and/or hit the starter button.
Will the bike start if you give it a jump?
Keep us posted on what you find.
Henrik |
Hkwan
| | Posted on Monday, October 24, 2005 - 03:49 pm: |
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OK, I will recheck the battery.
I didn't touch the battery at all. If the cable is loose, I think it would intermitenly have and have no lights, correct. But all it does now is when I turn the key / hit the switch, the bike does nothing. No sound, no click, no lights anywere, not even on the dash.
But the funny thing is when I switch off the key, the gauges would sweep once. Still no light, but the speedo and the rpm gauge would sweep, once.
The only time I've seen lights and have heard the fuel pump was the very first time I turn the key to "on" after the horn relocation. But when I hit the ignition switch, after one "click" then everything went DEAD. When I switched off the bike, 2 seconds later, the gauges swept once. I've no idea.
BTW, I always have the Race ECM, but that shouldn't matter, should it? |
Blake
| | Posted on Monday, October 24, 2005 - 04:20 pm: |
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Race ECM shouldn't make any difference except to how the engine runs. 
Doesn't seem likely to apply to your issue, but take a look at THIS just in case.
Unplug, inspect and reconnect all connectors. Carefully scan wires for bare metal, rub marks.
You might also double check the fuses, again. Their integrity can be tricky to verify. I've had them appear perfectly fine by naked eye, but a new fuse solved the problem. Then a magnifying glass revealed a slight break in what had appeared to be a good fuse.
If that is the case, then you may need to find what caused the fuse to blow to avoid repeating the same scenario.
I hate diagnosing electrical problems, but they are better than internal mechanical problems when it comes to fixing them.
Good luck Henry. |
Fullpower
| | Posted on Tuesday, October 25, 2005 - 08:42 pm: |
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Hkwan: check that big black ground lead again, the one that runs from battery to frame. swap a couple of the relays around (they are interchangeable). electrons are very simple creatures, they have a very strong desire to return to the battery. your job is to use various copper and assorted metallic objects to complete their return path. think like an electron. |
Hkwan
| | Posted on Tuesday, October 25, 2005 - 08:46 pm: |
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OK... I also checked the grounding point in the front already. That's the one right beneath the gauge pack, behind the horn. |
Fullpower
| | Posted on Tuesday, October 25, 2005 - 09:06 pm: |
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lets go over current conditions:
fully charged battery, no blown fuses and no headlights? is this correct?
If the preceding conditions are met, this points strongly to an interruption in conductivity between the headlamp and the battery. i would try interchanging the relays, with the key on, you may be ablke to isloate a faulty relay in this fashion.
(Message edited by fullpower on October 25, 2005) |
Buellin_ri
| | Posted on Tuesday, October 25, 2005 - 09:16 pm: |
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Does the netural light come on? |
Hkwan
| | Posted on Tuesday, October 25, 2005 - 09:16 pm: |
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Fullpower,
you are correct, those conditions are met.
Not only the bike's headlights are not working, no dash lights. Any not only the lights are not working, the fuel pump, ignition, nothing is working. It's like the battery isn't connected except that it is connected.
I've swapped the three relays around, nothing changed...
Would you think a dead ECM would cause this? |
Fullpower
| | Posted on Tuesday, October 25, 2005 - 09:22 pm: |
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no ecm is not a factor. rotate ign switch to Park position: any tail light illuminating? |
Hkwan
| | Posted on Tuesday, October 25, 2005 - 09:25 pm: |
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Fullpower, Buellin ri,
nothing, not a thing lights up or make any sound. Only thing that move were the two needles from rpm / speedo that would sweep once AFTER I turn the key to "off" when the ignition button is on. If the ignition is off, the key switch doesn't do anything. BTW, even during the sweep, no lights. |
Fullpower
| | Posted on Tuesday, October 25, 2005 - 09:29 pm: |
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park lamp is controlled by key switch, and independant of relays. perhaps your ignition key switch harness connector has been disturbed? if you have no park lamp, and you are quite sure that you have intact battery and key switch fuses, i would look for trouble at the ignition switch, and/or its connector, which may have been disturbed while you were adjusting your horn. |
Hkwan
| | Posted on Tuesday, October 25, 2005 - 09:33 pm: |
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Hmmm.. good point.
I did go in and wiggle the wires coming out of the ignition switch but it didn't do anything.
Why do you think the needles would sweep two seconds AFTER the key switched to "off"? |
Fullpower
| | Posted on Tuesday, October 25, 2005 - 09:39 pm: |
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obtain 12 volt test lamp, ground one lead, take other lead of test lamp, in succesion, ascertain that power exists at: positive battery terminal, 30 amp battery fuse ( both ends), 15 amp key switch fuse,( both ends), red wire at ignition switch connector, should be hot at all times, if you have power to this point, turn the switch "on", and see if you have power at the red/black wire. if you don't see power here, then you have a bad ignition switch. if you are with me so far, report back. |
Hkwan
| | Posted on Tuesday, October 25, 2005 - 09:41 pm: |
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Thank you very much for the pointer. Will get back in couple of days on this... |
Buellin_ri
| | Posted on Tuesday, October 25, 2005 - 09:42 pm: |
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Man I stumped, it's got to be something real stupid (all electrical problems usually are). Without being there I would retrace all the things you touched and recheck everything. The problem may be staring you in the face. I've also fixed things after walking away for a minute. I this doesn't really fix the problem but it may help you look at the problem with new eyes. |
Fullpower
| | Posted on Tuesday, October 25, 2005 - 09:46 pm: |
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"Why do you think the needles would sweep "
well, actually, now that you ask what i THINK, i will tell you. i really think that you have a deaply discharged or defective battery, but you have plainly stated that is NOT the case, so i am giving your diagnosis the full benefit, and proceeding with my troubleshooting path, as if the bike were right here in my shop. i trust you are able to obtain, or have made up a nice bright test lamp, preferably a good home built one consisting of a couple longish wires soldered or taped if neccesary to an 1157 automotive tail lamp bulb, and are proceeding with my previous instructions.the key to troubleshooting electrical gremlins is to use a testlamp which draws a couple amps on the circuit under test, this give far more information than the digital volt meter which offers zero load to the circuit.
I hope i have not caused offense..... |
Buellistic
| | Posted on Tuesday, October 25, 2005 - 11:11 pm: |
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Beware of a ELECTRONIC TECHNICIAN with a "TEST LAMP" and a "DRSONAVAL(so out of date "i" can not remember how to spell it)METER" !!!
In BUELLing
LaFayette |
Hkwan
| | Posted on Tuesday, October 25, 2005 - 11:43 pm: |
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Hmm... the shops are closed so I can't buy the 1157 bulbs. I have a multimeter. Would you think that will work? What current should I see from those leads you have described, FullPower? |
Reepicheep
| | Posted on Wednesday, October 26, 2005 - 08:51 am: |
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No easy way to safely measure the current with a standard multimeter.
The problem is that on a multimeter, voltage is measured with infintesmially small current, micro amps or less. That is an easy test for a battery to pass.
To start the bike however, the start needs 50 amps? 100 amps? I am not sure, but it's a lot. But it needs a million times more current then the voltage test on your multimeter is drawing.
Most multimeters have current measuring settings, but it's dangerous, and they are typically limited to 1 to 30 amps. Think about it, you have these tiny little test leads, putting 50 amps through there would turn them into space heaters, and your meter into a smoking crater.
They do make (expensive) clamp on inductive meters. They will measure the current going through a wire by putting a coil around that wire, so they don't have to directly carry the current to measure it. They are expensive though.
The headlight bulb puts a 20(?) watt (under 2 amps) load on the battery, which is getting closer to what the battery actually needs to deliver to start the bike, though it is still probably only 1/10 of what is needed.
You could also wire in any wall socket lamp (trouble light, whatever) with a 100 watt bulb, and wire that in if you can't get to the auto parts store. I would expect that to be 10 watts (under 1 amp) on a 12 volt system. Still not the greatest test, but better then the DMM.
Just for reference, a freshly charged double A NIMH rechargable battery (AA), like you would use in your walkman, can easily deliver 8 amps at 1.2 volts. Plenty enough to give you a good burn in you short it out. |
Reepicheep
| | Posted on Wednesday, October 26, 2005 - 08:54 am: |
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(and for the record, I am with fullpower. What you are describing sounds exactly like a fully discharged battery or a battery with crappy terminal connections, though it could be other things as well). |
Fullpower
| | Posted on Wednesday, October 26, 2005 - 01:10 pm: |
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Hkwan: look at the back end of the buell, there is an 1157 tail lamp bulb, that is currently not in use, you could use the tail/brake light bulb for troubleshooting.
Buellistic: beware the technician placing blind faith in digital instrumentation. |
Buellistic
| | Posted on Wednesday, October 26, 2005 - 03:04 pm: |
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Fullpower:
Remember BATTERY & GROUND, BATERY & GROUND going through the OR gates, AND gates, BACK gates, FRONT gates, STAR gates, and the PEARLY gates !!!
The ELECTRONS from a NEW BATTERY some time works
wonders ???
In BUELLing |
Izzinya
| | Posted on Thursday, October 27, 2005 - 12:14 am: |
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had a problem similar to that
it ended up being ALL 3 RELAYS
the bike BRAND NEW from the factory
had the battery installed backwards
once the right battery was installed the same
thing you described (needles sweeping after key off) was happening
it ended up being the relays figure that out after about 10 hrs and a call to a friend of mine in spain LOL
Izzinya |
Hkwan
| | Posted on Thursday, October 27, 2005 - 12:41 am: |
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Ah ha, thank you very much for the pointer. Looks like the battery being connected backward fried the relays. Did you have any other problem after that?
(Message edited by hkwan on October 28, 2005) |
Izzinya
| | Posted on Friday, October 28, 2005 - 11:17 pm: |
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every time i would turn the key on
the ig fuse would pop
after replaceing the fuse the needles would sweep
just my 2C
Izzinya |
Izzinya
| | Posted on Friday, October 28, 2005 - 11:20 pm: |
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one other thing i ask a customer when they bring a bike with gremlins to me is
"what was the last thing you did to the bike?"
if it was fine before ill try undoing that first
than move on from there
just my 2C
Izzinya |
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