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Baybueller
Posted on Sunday, September 06, 2020 - 01:02 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Missed the last Buell I had, an 08 Uly so I bought an 08 XT yesterday.
Bike has a micron exhaust and what appears to be stock ecu. Numbers are smudged.It runs poorly as expected.
I can't find an ecu specific to micron. I'm guessing a drummer ecu will be close.
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Tpehak
Posted on Sunday, September 06, 2020 - 01:17 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

It is cheaper just to buy stock exhaust.
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Baybueller
Posted on Sunday, September 06, 2020 - 01:31 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

I had stock on the last one and changed to the modified stock with 2 outlets. With earplugs I could not hear the stock can.
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Shoggin
Posted on Sunday, September 06, 2020 - 03:13 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

You could buy an ECM from IDS for $300 but I would caution against guessing, and instead suggest you diagnose what is making the bike run poorly.

The ECM you have may have the perfect fuel map in it now and you'll just be chasing your tail or even worse, you could end up masking the problem you have with an overly rich or lean fuel map.
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Baybueller
Posted on Sunday, September 06, 2020 - 04:36 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

I am running injector cleaner thru the tank now which makes it run even worse but I am hoping it will clear up with miles.
Holes and flat spots below 4k rpm and then good from there. Also a fair amount of backfiring.
I knew it would be an adventure getting a bike with unknown history.
Also did a tps reset.
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Baybueller
Posted on Sunday, September 06, 2020 - 04:42 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

For some reason the p.o. removed the left side air scoop. Have one on order.
The fan stops when the bike slows and does not run after shutdown.
I can't remember if my uly did that. My 03 ran after shutting off which I thought was a good idea.
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Baybueller
Posted on Monday, September 07, 2020 - 03:08 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Found a buelltooth connected to service port. Don't have a droid and tech challenged. Ordering an ecm.
I am guessing the buelltooth is just a port and can be removed without affecting the tune.
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Shoggin
Posted on Monday, September 07, 2020 - 07:55 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

The fan is controlled by settings that you can change however you like using ECMDroid (free on Google Play) under ECM parameters very easily.
Clear instructions are on the sire the Buelltooth thing came from.
Yes, you can unplug it if you wish. It is just makes a wireless (Bluetooth) connection between your android device ($20 burner or free from your cell provider, you don't even need a SIM card in it) and your bike. It's not a piggy back tuner thing, it holds no info the tune is in your ECM

Sounds like you have issues with your bike. ESPECIALLY because you say you're "Tech challenged"...........

I would diagnose it (or have it diagnosed for you) BEFORE you start the expensive, frustrating, time consuming guessing game of throwing parts at it.

These are written with non-professional mechanics in mind so you can start troubleshooting here: '09 will work
https://www.buellmods.com

and make sure to check for an intake leak as well.}
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Baybueller
Posted on Tuesday, September 08, 2020 - 09:50 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

thanks Shoggin. The "challenged" thing is with the programming side.
I went thru the last Uly and replaced the temp sensor, injectors, intake seals etc.
Time to jump in and learn how to access the ecu.
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Shoggin
Posted on Tuesday, September 08, 2020 - 01:59 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Oh good then you are in great shape to find out whats wrong with the bike before you start playing with the ECM.

It's not really "programming" per se. The ECM is a solid state extremely dependable unit*. Theres no need for any custom tuning on a mostly stock bike like yours. You can make easily returnable changes and even put in a whole existing fuel map with the combo of the ECMDroid and the Buelltooth thing you have already.

*Check the ECM for physical cracks at the connectors. It was a 'thing' with Uly's using low seats and probably the ONLY reason to ever change an ECM.
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Baybueller
Posted on Tuesday, September 08, 2020 - 10:45 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Guess I inherited a project bike. 20 miles of great running this morning followed by poor running then CEL then shutdown.
Looks like I will be wearing out the electrical and shop manuals and the electrical threads on this site.
I know ground points are the first place to look but I never get that lucky.
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Baybueller
Posted on Tuesday, September 08, 2020 - 10:48 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Yes Shoggin, my last had an issue with the seat pressuring the ecm.
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Baybueller
Posted on Friday, September 11, 2020 - 10:49 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Looking for a regulator. All I can find is e bay brand x. Has anybody had luck using these?

(Message edited by baybueller on September 11, 2020)

(Message edited by baybueller on September 11, 2020)
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Shoggin
Posted on Friday, September 11, 2020 - 03:42 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

IMO I would buy a used OE before I got a china one.

Theres 2 types of Buell regulators, this is the early one, this is a good company, they might have the late version that you need as well.
https://ricksmotorsportelectrics.com/Hot-Shot-Buel l-Rectifier-Regulator-10_016H
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Baybueller
Posted on Friday, September 11, 2020 - 04:04 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Thanks Shoggin. Getting deeper into testing systems. So far I am guessing a voodoo curse on the electrics.
Endever to pursevere
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Shoggin
Posted on Friday, September 11, 2020 - 09:08 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

You're welcome, happy to help: )

Even if it's charging well now, a bad VR can charge intermittently so if your CEL was caused by code 16, I'd still replace it.
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Baybueller
Posted on Saturday, September 12, 2020 - 01:20 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

So, I go to best buy, get an android tablet, connect to my wi fi, download googleplay, then ecmspy?
Sorry for the dumb questions but I've managed to get thru 66 years without needing to know this stuff.
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Shoggin
Posted on Saturday, September 12, 2020 - 04:43 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Not quite. I'm concerned by your very naive questions that you are opening a can of worms you will regret.

Why are you so convinced the ECM is at fault?

But here ya go:
I prefer using an android phone. I got it FREE from my phone company. You don't need a SIM card or contract to use it. It will work (and even make calls when connected to Wi-Fi).

Either way (tablet or Phone) here's how it works:
Google Play is a website for Android. like the App Store is a website for Apple.
Go to that website and download ECMDroid on whatever phone or tablet you get.
On that device, connect to the bike. Ignition and RED run switch on, search for "Buelltooth" exactly like connecting to a bluetooth speaker. PIN 1234.
Now you're connected.
You will find better instructions from the website printed on your Buelltooth thats on your bike. (Buelltooth.com)

But for YOUR sake... I'm trying to tell you something:

"You could buy an ECM from IDS for $300 but I would caution against guessing, and instead suggest you diagnose what is making the bike run poorly.

The ECM you have may have the perfect fuel map in it now and you'll just be chasing your tail or even worse, you could end up masking the problem you have with an overly rich or lean fuel map."

Because:
"Don't have a droid and tech challenged"
"The "challenged" thing is with the programming side"
"So far I am guessing"
"Sorry for the dumb questions"

You WILL spend more money, WAY more time, and it will be frustrating for you, trying to learn how to get the ECM re-programmed for free by yourself, than just buying one from IDS.

Maybe it fixes your bike? Maybe it doesn't, but at least you can move on to actually fixing the bike instead of always wondering if you did it correctly when the bike still runs like poo poo after you are done messing with the ECM.

Up to you bro.
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Tpehak
Posted on Saturday, September 12, 2020 - 05:03 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Clean and tighten all grounds and battery terminals and install digital voltmeter to make sure you have no power supply issues

https://www.buellxb.com/forum/showthread.php?52809 -Micro-voltmeter-in-handlebar-control-housing

Then install digital fuel pressure gauge to make sure the fuel pressure is correct within the RPM range

https://www.buellxb.com/forum/showthread.php?55083 -Buell-XB-fuel-pressure-gauge/page2

After those two mods installed just do quick air leakage test

https://youtu.be/QewgdFjh23A

These three simple steps covers 90% of troubleshooting.

If all those things are done but the motorcycle does not work correct go and buy BuellTooth dongle and find Android Phone and check rear cylinder temperature sensor behavior during working engine, throttle position sensor angle during moving throttle and AFV value to figure out if you need to replace the temperature sensor, adjust or replace the throttle position sensor, or replace O2 sensor or you if you have leaking or clogged injectors.

If all the above are OK but the motorcycle does not work right you can try expensive way with new ECM. The good thing is at this point at least you will have all necessary troubleshooting tools and mods installed on your motorcycle, and I bet you will need them sooner or later because of this is Buell.

(Message edited by TPEHAK on September 12, 2020)
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Baybueller
Posted on Saturday, September 12, 2020 - 09:35 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Thanks guys. I am interested in reading values to get an idea of what is going on now to see if it points to problems.I agree on not messing with settings.
I will read more and post less until I can share positive results.
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Shoggin
Posted on Sunday, September 13, 2020 - 12:26 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Lots of really good info in this site and BuellXB.com
Post up whatever you want, positive or negative results... it doesn't matter, we're here to help.

I'd rather you had a good running and pleasant experience with your Buell: ) They are rock solid very dependable machines, even when abused.
You'll need to know what to look for and what readings are correct, but even without ECMDroid (an excellent diagnostic tool) Its possible to go through the troubleshooting flowchart in the FREE service manual.
Search (intake leak) and see whats what?
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Baybueller
Posted on Monday, September 14, 2020 - 12:00 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

I have spent several hours trying to find stock ecm settings on line with no luck.
I'm seeing some settings that don't look right but I have no reference.
Seeing the ecm is great but without Knowing the baseline its not much help.
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Shoggin
Posted on Monday, September 14, 2020 - 01:32 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

What settings would you like to change? There's no 'going back to stock' button, now that you have an aftermarket exhaust on it it would still run poorly like that.

Diagnosing whats actually wrong before changing a bunch of stuff will make your life easier.

How did the intake test work out?
Now that you're all hooked up with ECMDroid:
Any current or historical codes?
What is your current AFV?
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Baybueller
Posted on Monday, September 14, 2020 - 02:16 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

I did the intake leak with propane with no results. Going to try starting fluid.
Historic code 16 batt voltage hi/lo
33 fuel pump short to ground, 21 AMC stuck closed. Put about 20 miles on, no new code.
AFV rear 73.6, front 100%.
I see odd settings like min idle 600.
Since the PO had a hi flow exhaust paired to a dirty stock air cleaner and removed the left side cooling scoop I question anything he did to the bike.
I am in the garage looking at the throttle body and getting bummed. So many potential faulty parts that are hard to find and replace.
I am mostly disappointed in myself. Misread the seller as honest and did not properly check the bike out.
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Shoggin
Posted on Monday, September 14, 2020 - 04:52 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Almost any part is still easily available. The front engine mount is currently a little hard to find but the aftermarket stepped right up.

Your front AFV will always be 100 on that bike only 2010 bikes had dual O2's, the rear AFV is telling you the ECM is trying to pull almost 25%(!!) of fuel out of it and I'm sure thats why is runs like poo poo.

You can re-set it to 100 and the bike will probably run well... until it re-adjusts to that level because you need to fix WHY its doing that.

You can:
1) Cheat it. Set the AFV to 100 and set the "AFV minimum value" to 95 (in the O2 settings menu)

it won't fix the bike, but will let you ride it in the meantime

2) Look for why the ECM is pulling that fuel out (it thinks its way too rich) so look at..

2a) the O2 voltages to see if its lazy or clogged,
2b) the temp sensor readings to see if its shorted
2c) clogged open injectors

*edit: fixed my mistake

(Message edited by shoggin on September 14, 2020)
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Tpehak
Posted on Monday, September 14, 2020 - 05:56 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Not front cylinder, rear cylinder. It also can be dirty or soaked in oil from vent hoses air filter or bad TPS. Bad worn TPS might show big throttle angle while it is actually not big

You might need to warm up your motorcycle before setting AFV to 100 because of you can flood the plugs on cold unfixed motorcycle lifting AFV from such low value. Also make sure you use correct temperature rate spark plugs, colder plugs will likely be flooded after lifting AFV on unfixed motorcycle.

(Message edited by TPEHAK on September 14, 2020)
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Shoggin
Posted on Monday, September 14, 2020 - 08:10 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Ok, fixed my mistakeI. I swapped "front" and "rear" accidentally, but semantics don't matter because you can't change the greyed out (front) one anyway....

but no on everything else you said. TPS couldn't cause the AFV problem he has a problem with. And checking sweep is easy with ECMDroid.

The SIZE of the AFV change won't matter either. It is running so lean right now it runs poorly, going to 100 is simply a stock-ish level, not any richer than it should be

HOWEVER, Buell's run a very long and very rich cold start cycle normally, so the Buell Rule is:

Only start it if you are going to ride it.
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Akbuell
Posted on Monday, September 14, 2020 - 09:32 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Went through something like this on my tuber:

Per my '08 XB manual, page 4-32, remove what you need to to be able to look into the throttle body. I suspect you are already at that point.

With the stop/run switch in the run position, turn the ign key on for 2 seconds, then off for 2 seconds. Repeat 5 times.

Open the throttle and look into the intake manifold. A strong light is helpful. If you see any fuel, an injector is leaking.

In my case, a leaking injector 'told' the ECM the mixture was rich, so started leaning out the entire fuel map. The leaking fuel injector test revealed, in my case, raw fuel in the branch of the intake manifold leading to the rear cylinder.

Hope this helps, Dave
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Baybueller
Posted on Friday, September 18, 2020 - 01:31 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Waiting on replacement VR. Fault confirmed by cel and blown headlight.
Bike runs great when afv set to 100 but slowly runs lean as the value drops.No problem on the injector leak test
I have no luck with the search function here while looking for O2 sensor replacements, I recall there was a Bosch crossover.
I appreciate you guys posting idea's. Didn't plan on buying a project bike
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Ducbsa
Posted on Friday, September 18, 2020 - 05:08 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

http://www.badweatherbikers.com/buell/messages/327 77/686117.html?1341650018
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Akbuell
Posted on Friday, September 18, 2020 - 12:43 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

O.K. The bike runs great with an AFV of 100. The injectors passed the leak test.

Something is causing the ECM to read a rich mixture and leaning out the entire fuel map. Possible a faulty O2 sensor reading? Something to try, if you enjoy fiddling with stuff, is to swap front and rear injectors and see if the AFV changes much. My thinking is if the injector is partially clogged, that may cause a rich mixture.

Counterintuitive, I know, but it is my understanding that a clogged injector will spray more of a stream of fuel than a mist. The stream droplets have a smaller overall surface area than a mist, leading to incomplete combustion, and a 'rich' mixture.

Hope this helps, Dave
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Tpehak
Posted on Friday, September 18, 2020 - 01:21 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

You can't swap rear and front injectors, they are different, they have directional nozzle, front should go to front hole and rear should go to rear hole, if you stick them opposite way they will spray fuel on the intake walls instead of to the intake valves.

(Message edited by TPEHAK on September 18, 2020)
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Akbuell
Posted on Friday, September 18, 2020 - 01:58 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Tpehak:

Thanks for that. I'm more used to the tubers, where they are both the same.

Mea Culpa, Dave :-)
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Baybueller
Posted on Friday, September 18, 2020 - 02:33 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

I am thinking O2 sensor. Bike runs great at 100% and poorly with backfire as the AVF value goes down.
I have done the sensors/ injector change on another 08 I had. Not fun.
When I get the replacement VR I am going to set the AFV min. at 95 and see how it goes.
I love these bikes but now remember when I sold the last about 6 years ago it was partly due to dwindling parts access. Al Lighton was just closing shop.
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