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Evilphoton
Posted on Sunday, May 31, 2020 - 10:35 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Hello
Bike is a Uly but I imagine this is not Uly specific.

TL;DR - rough idle, going crazy.

I have been getting O2 sensor trouble codes (13) on the highway, the light would come on and stay on until either I shut it off or it cooled down at slower speeds. I read this is common for O2 sensor/CEL behavior when going out.
The more annoying symptom is that it has bad surge from idle to 2k. At idle or at 2 it runs nice and smooth. Between the two it surges and bucks so it's pretty tough to ride slow, congested traffic, etc.

I've done several TPS resets, maybe 8 or 10. The first several I didn't think I got the feel for the adjustment and whatnot, now I do. No intake leaks. I've taken the intake out a couple times to check the seals (they're newish/~400 miles) and used carb spray and there is no increase or change in RPM.

I also wanted to replace the rear shock and clean out the fan area, so I used the method of jacking up, removing shock, unbolting fan, quarter turn, extracting out the back where the shock was. Cleaned. All this went well, and it's clean in there now.

I got the O2 sensor out/in with a stubby 7/8" box end, it worked very well. Replaced with a Bosch 12014.

Started up and Same problem as I started with. Did another TPS reset, no change.

It's idling best at TPS values: 2.7 degrees/3.1%/.79 volts. I've rotated the throttle slowly from closed to open and back and watched that the numbers and the increase and decrease is very smooth, there aren't any dead or odd spots in the travel.
Higher than 2.7 degrees and it starts to surge, and it will slow down to not enough idle. The numbers above is what it reads at as close to 1100 RPM as I can get.

For today, I'm in between either running through a closed loop learn cycle and disabling O2 all together and see how it runs this way. I got gas yesterday so I don't need to stop.


So, questions:
1) What TPS numbers are you all getting? withing this range or is something off here?
2) Would closed loop learn cycle have an impact on idling?
2a) Does this speed need to be completely constant or can I get off/on the interstate? I don't mind running a straight shot and this is what I'm leaning towards.
3) If it runs the same in closed and open loop, what's next? I'll post back with results from whatever I do today.
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Evilphoton
Posted on Sunday, May 31, 2020 - 01:08 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Decided to try open loop. It runs cooler, same route, similar temp, no fan the whole time until I turned the ignition off.
It feels like the surge is worse, but that could be because it's slightly richer and putting out a little more power.

So if running it in open loop negates O2 data, then the symptoms persist.
When I had the airbox and base plate off yesterday, I make sure everything was plugged in and solid including the spark plug wires.

Going back out to turn O2 back on and do another TPS reset and see how it goes : )
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Tpehak
Posted on Sunday, May 31, 2020 - 02:17 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Did you set AFV to 100 after replacing O2 sensor and TPS reset?
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Evilphoton
Posted on Sunday, May 31, 2020 - 03:12 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Tpehak, yes, I did.

I set it back to closed loop and verified in ecmspy that it is in fact running closed loop idle and itís still surging. No light or code from running on the interstate though so something is ... different lol
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Tpehak
Posted on Monday, June 01, 2020 - 02:33 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Clean the grounds and tighten battery terminals.
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Firemanjim
Posted on Monday, June 01, 2020 - 02:36 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

And you turned off closed loop idle? What has AFV been doing? Did you look at this area in the maps to see if there are any odd numbers? And describe your TPS reset procedure.
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Evilphoton
Posted on Monday, June 01, 2020 - 04:14 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Tpehak - iím going to check the grounds next.. i should have before. i also found a cut wire in the harness that has been bypassed, iím going to do a voltage drop test on as much of the harness as i can. i should have done grounds before.. grrr

Firemanjim - I did try turning off closed loop idle. AFV has been at 100, i havenít seen it change at all.
what would i be looking for in the map? or is there a resource you can point me to to verify?
TPS reset: iím doing it exactly as ecmspy v2 says in the TPS reset tab, steps 1-7. iíve tried with engine cold and also at close to operating temp. I see in the instructions that step seven is warm up the engine and then set the idle. Is it a better procedure to perform steps one through six with the engine cold rather than operating temp? ok.. then maybe didnít follow procedure each time, iíll do it again with a cold engine.
at step 4, i get 0.00 degrees and .66 volts.
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Evilphoton
Posted on Wednesday, June 10, 2020 - 12:23 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

not timing, grounds, tps. i found a good deal on an oem tps and replaced the old one which had frayed wires where the wires go in. did tps reset, no diff.

was leaning towards a wiring problem, but i did several voltage drop tests and everything is normal and i re-cleaned all the grounds and checked for continuity between the engine harness and the ecm plugs.

did a timing check and reset static. it was a little bit advanced. i also swapped the cam position sensor out for a known-good one.

when i started it in the garage after i had just installed the tps (no reset) and set timing, it immediately idled perfectly. i could increase rpm and hold exactly at 1500 with no surging. so i thought i was on to something. fire it up a couple hours ago and itís back to coughing, spitting fire back through the intake and surging.

do i need to take it out and run a learn loop on it? under 4500 rpm is how the map is drawn and 30+ minutes.

where can i get a stock map for an 06? iíd like to reset the ecm to stock maps and settings and restart from there.
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Evilphoton
Posted on Wednesday, June 10, 2020 - 12:44 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

fuel injection test kit arriving tomorrow. good star count on amazon.
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Evilphoton
Posted on Wednesday, June 10, 2020 - 12:46 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

pretty much exactly what itís doing:
https://youtu.be/7QPcsxdgQCw
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Tpehak
Posted on Wednesday, June 10, 2020 - 02:07 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Check Temperature sensor behavior using ECM Droid.
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Evilphoton
Posted on Wednesday, June 10, 2020 - 06:28 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Thanks, Tpehak.
This is what I see - when I watch the temp in ECMSpy, it is very consistent, no spikes or dips in the readout. if i let it heat up from cold just idling (i know, i know), the temp increases slow and steady. if it heats up until the fan comes on, the temp starts to go down.
Does this indicate good enough that the sensor is ok? or is there another test? I don't remember the temp that it gets to when the fan comes on but I'll take note next time I run it.
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Tpehak
Posted on Wednesday, June 10, 2020 - 06:46 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

It indicates that there is no obvious issues with the sensor but it does not mean it is good or bad
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Blake
Posted on Wednesday, June 10, 2020 - 08:57 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Electrical issues at ECM/connector underneath the seat?
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Evilphoton
Posted on Wednesday, June 10, 2020 - 10:28 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Tpehak - i hear that. i have a couple things to test first - fuel pressure, ecm plug, etc. then i'll get back to it if there's still a list.

Blake - maybe. i think it's time to cut it apart and find out. i haver another ecm that has been re-soldered so i know where the cut line and depth is.

anyone ever find and put a down draft carb to put on these? electrics & harness could come from an old sportster...
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_buelligan_
Posted on Thursday, June 11, 2020 - 07:58 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

I've seen people talk about wanting to use a downdraft carb off a snowmobile. No evidence of what they intended to use nor that it was actually tried.
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Evilphoton
Posted on Friday, June 12, 2020 - 06:47 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

i just burned a stock 2007 map to my Ď06.. hopeful!



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