| Author | Message | ||
     Dj_rider  |
ok so i bought a bunch of parts from daves....good deals, quick shipping, overall great customer support...until my triple tree cracked...yes i know as u know that triple trees SHOULDNT crack...so ive been researching, dave is an understandable guy, hes giving me a great discounted price for another new one...i rode the bike up to the dealership where i bought it (i havent been there in months due to their service managers shady ways and horrible additude)and showed the salesman the bike and the cracked triple tree...he got the warranty guy to come out, and he said well heres the deal...he says it looks like theres a pry mark on the bottom of the triple tree close to where it cracked...have any of you ever put on a triple tree for an xb...the chrome bolt is a bit big for the hole so i pryed the bottom open just a little bit to get the hole to open up...he says this will void the warranty but he would try to send it back to buell anyway...the only problem with this is, they charge about 5 percent over retail for the triple tree, and if buell doesnt accept the part, then im screwed out of the MONEY that i dont have! i dont think that a pry mark is a valid voided warranty issue, AND i believe the part to be defective in the first place...everyone assumes i tightened it over torque specs but i was a few clicks under specs... im not putting dave down at all, i am not putting the stealership down at all...i just believe that the part from the start was and is defective, and even if it isnt, i paid 1400 dollars for a 5 year extended warranty for all non wearable parts...ah i hate being torn...i want my gosh darn bike on the road, im makin payments while it sits and collects dust in my garage... can anyone give me any info or suggestions? thanks a bunch !!  (Message edited by skully on November 27, 2004) | ||
| Wyckedflesh  |
 You mean like that? It happened as I was RELEASING tension to readjust the steering head bearings. | ||
| Dj_rider |
EXACTLY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! | ||
| Wyckedflesh |
Well DJ, if you look at the torque specs for that part, its only 17-19ft lbs. Not alot if you think about it. So, if you torqued it down above that I can see why it wouldn't be covered under warrenty, as that is an owner error. Its why I never persued mine further as I realised I had simply over torques it and it was bound to crack. The fact it happened when I was loosening it just goes to show how over tightened it was. | ||
| Tpoppa |
After the dealer stripped my primary cover by over-tightening the bolts that hold the primary inspection cover--I don't touch a single bolt without consulting the manual for torque specs. IMO If you own an XB, you need 2 torque wrenches, 1 for ft/lbs and 1 for inch/lbs. | ||
| Blake  |
That failure sure does appear to be from overtorquing. If that is your failure mode, you might want to have your torque wrench calibration checked and your torquing technique checked too. A pry-mark/ding would only make it worse, and yes a ding could lead to failure as you describe. Sorry man, but best to move on and suck this one up. | ||
| Ingemar  |
When the dealer torqued up the steering head bearings on my xb he went to fasten that bolt and snapped it in two too. Prob is that don't admit to be at fault, there was a faulty batch of fork clamps (not that I believe that, I saw him overtorque it so ...). | ||
| Bigbird  |
I hate to say it, but this is a prime example of a situation I was talking about in another thread recently. When you work on your own vehicle there are certain situations you can get into where warranty coverage for a particular component might be denied due to the visible possibility that you caused the damage. As the Service Manager/Warranty Administrator of a dealership if I saw pry marks I'd have to agree with your current dealers decision. Like them, I'd be glad to send the part back to Buell to see if they want to cover it, or I would take a deposit from you to cover the repairs, and then go ahead and repair the bike under warranty with the assumption that if Buell rejects the warranty claim after they've seen the part I keep your deposit. I don't care how much you paid for your warranty - even if you paid 10 grand for it, damage from improper repairs, assembly, or disassembly procedures isn't covered. That isn't your dealer's policy, that is the extended warranty company policy. Just like the warranty decisions of the motor company your dealer is powerless to change it. However, if I knew you were saying this about me and my dealership - (i havent been there in months due to their service managers shady ways and horrible additude) Well then I'd just have to tell you to pound salt, and I wouldn't be inclined to go so far as an extra inch for you. Personally I think that in making the attempt to get you help they are doing the right thing. That way the decision is Buells, but I can see from your attitude that if the decision doesn't go your way you'll probably still blame and bad mouth the dealer. Nice... | ||
| Aldaytona  |
I think we've all damaged/broken parts when working on our bikes and sometimes it was to save money, sometimes it's the love of things mechanical that compels us to do it. Either way when we screw up and have to buy replacement parts we really don't like to spend the money or admit to the fact we did it ourself. I know that my broken part replacement list has gotten much shorter since I started using shop manuals, but I still break/damage parts occasionally. I used to yell "$hit...I hate when that happens" Now I mostly say "Ooooooooopps" In the end it still comes down to "you play, you pay" get over it and move on. | ||
| Gentleman_jon  |
Actually, this is just one of several parts on the early XB that were simply designed or built wrong. Happens all the time. Among the others are : 1. Drive belt 2. Steering head bearings 3. Wheel bearings 4. engine mount 5. side stand 6. Cam oil seal. Sadly, The Motor Company takes the "pound salt" attitude illustrated above. There is simply no excuse for making the top triple tree so delicate that it can be so easily broken: proper mechanical design calls for a safety factor of at least two in this type of application. Same on the original belt. The problem with the triple tree is simple: not enough material in the area due to poor design. Simple redesign and recall is what any responsible company would do, not blame the owner for putting two lbs extra torque on it. This problem was exacerbated by the fact that the steering bearings were inadequate as well, ( they have been quietly upgraded). On a properly designed unit, one almost never has to touch these parts, and certainly not in the first year or so. There is no excuse for this, as this particular design problem was solved in the 1950's. There are basically two remedial approaches here. For the the vast majority of Buell owners, you just buy the Shop manual, parts book, and call Daves when you have a problem. One of the great things about the somewhat primitive powerplant is that it is rather straightforward to repair. Then there are those lucky few who live near those twenty or so dealers who enthusiastically support Buell. Trouble is, most guys don't find out which category they fall into until after they buy the bike:-) | ||
| Aldaytona |
Having owned several tube frame Buells didn't prevent me from buying a XB9R when they first came out. Not having the factory updating my bike with the 6 items on the list in Jentleman jon's post didn't keep me from buying a XB12R last month either. It would be nice to have them updated for free, I would like them to update some items on my tubers as well, but such is life. Anyway if all the 03 XB bikes were updated with those items at no cost to the owners I'm sure that we could find another 6 or more items that were designed $hitty and could/should be updated as well. At no charge of course. | ||
| Bigbird |
Actually, this is just one of several parts on the early XB that were simply designed or built wrong. Happens all the time. Among the others are : 1. Drive belt 2. Steering head bearings 3. Wheel bearings 4. engine mount 5. side stand 6. Cam oil seal. Sadly, The Motor Company takes the "pound salt" attitude illustrated above. There is simply no excuse for making the top triple tree so delicate that it can be so easily broken: proper mechanical design calls for a safety factor of at least two in this type of application. Same on the original belt. For starters, let's clear something up. I stated I would take the "pound salt" attitude if someone was rubbing my name in the dirt and demanded that I go out of my way to help them at the same time. A reasonable reaction by most people's standards. The motor company had NOTHING to do with it. Next, What does a safety factor of "2" mean? What do you base this on, and upon what credentials do you base your ability to represent such a statement as fact? Let's define "built wrong". The recall on the sidestand and the product program on the wheel bearings are 2 examples of things that could have been made better, and the company stood behind the issues. As for the belt, are you suggesting that every time Buell updates a component it automatically means the previous version was inferior? I've seen the vast majority of belts on 2003 XBs run to their life expectancy. Someone here even got DOUBLE the life expectancy out of a belt on an '03. There have been some failures, but obviously not enough to get the attention of our recall-governing body, the NHTSA. So we have a component that generally lives to its life expectancy with the occasional failure. That is considered acceptable by government standards until the failure rate gets high enough to invoke a recall or product program. On chain driven bikes 15,000 miles out of a chain and sprockets is something to be happy about. According to your line of thinking all chain driven bikes should now be upgraded to belt drive at the manufacturer's expense because one company has proven it is possible to make a belt system which lasts 25,000 miles. Just because Buell comes out with a better system the next year doesn't mean the previous design is bad, it just means they figured out something better. You are suggesting they should take responsibility for a problem that doesn't exist, and then pay for the upgrade, which is absolutely ridiculous. Thank heaven people with your attitude towards manufacturers and dealers can't legally enforce this kind of legislation. If they could the average XB would cost $25,000 to pay for all of the lawsuits, legal fees, and upgrades. Even worse they just wouldn't improve the product from one year to the next because doing so would be an admittal that the previous product was inferior. What an assenine concept! Where I work we have serviced plenty of Buells. One of the highest mileage XB's currently in existence gets serviced by us exclusively, unless something is needed when the owner is on a trip across the country. Of all of the XB's we've seen NOT ONE SINGLE TRIPLE TREE HAS CRACKED unless the bike was in a major collision, and I've only seen one of those. The guy rear-ended a car at 55 mph. But I suppose that was Buell's fault too, right? Buell should come out with a collision avoidance system and then be forced to retrofit it to your bike, correct? Buell cannot build the bike to be fool-proof. They recommend (but cannot require) you take your bike to a certified tech for service and repairs. You have the option to do it yourself if you desire. After all it is your motorcycle. However, don't expect the motor company to pay for your mistakes. That attitude is exactly what has created the hyper-litigous society we live in, and it's part of the reason vehicle costs now eat up twice the amount of the average person's income as they did 30 years ago. If you think the manufacturers don't pass those costs on to the consumer you are sadly mistaken. There is absolutely nothing wrong with the design of the top triple tree. There is everything wrong with the disassembly procedure this individual used, and that is why it broke. End of story. "Gentleman" Jon, you have repeatedly voiced your disapproval of dealers and Buell company policy about these things. Your latest post here is exactly the type of fiction that ultimately gets turned into rumor and makes people think the product is defective. In doing so you damage the name and harm the resale value of your own motorcycle, as well as that of your fellow Buell riding friends. Might I recommend you get out while you can? How about purchasing a nice Honda? You see the nicest people on a Honda...a real "gentleman's" bike. | ||
| Buells Rule! (Dyna in disguise)  |
I've seen the vast majority of belts on 2003 XBs run to their life expectancy. Someone here even got DOUBLE the life expectancy out of a belt on an '03. There have been some failures, but obviously not enough to get the attention of our recall-governing body, the NHTSA. So we have a component that generally lives to its life expectancy with the occasional failure. Im not taking sides on this one at all, but Blake had a poll awhile back & the failure rate for the 03 belts was pretty high. I dont recall the exact figure but if someone feels like it a search of the archives should turn it up. | ||
| Bigbird |
I don't know what the poll results were either, but I'm sure that poll represented the failure rates on the original belt that was used on the earlier '03 XB's. There have been 2 part number revisions since then, and every failure of that original belt part number I encountered (only a few) was taken care of under warranty without question. Even so, the failure rate apparently has not been high enough to get the attention of the NHTSB, and no recall - voluntary or involuntary - has ever come across my desk from Buell. My point was that Buell should not be expected to incur the expense of updating the '03 belt setup to the '04 setup. The fact that they came out with a better design the next year wich lasts for 25,000 miles does not mean a properly functioning belt system with a 15,000 mile life span should be replaced at Buell's expense. | ||
| Buells Rule! (Dyna in disguise) |
Agreed, & the replacement/upgraded belt for the 03's as well as the new setup for the 04 & later models are holding up well. | ||
| Dj_rider |
let me tell u why i think the service manager of my local shop is what i said he is... #1 he lied to me and said he put a new o2 sensor on my bike, and in reality he only taped up the wire where it was grounding on my motor #2 he scratched both rims when i went to get the tires changed, then denyed he did it and it was then turned into my fault...(i never have had anyone change the tires besides this dealership #3 he "forgot" to tell me about 500.00 worth of hidden "Storage" costs when i wrecked my xb. that same day, he gave me a half-assed estimate...the primary cover was totally smashed and i wanted them to take the primary cover off to inspect the insides, and they didnt...so when i went home and took it off, find out my clutch basket was bent to hell and back...go figure... so by you telling me to go pound salt, you can stick your salt where the sun dont shine...your cockyness and arrogance is rather annoying...expessialy since i dont know you and you dont know me...i am not a moron, i SAID i torqued the bolt 2 clicks UNDER SPECS not 2 Pounds over! and this wasnt a USED triple tree, THIS WAS A NEW ONE I BOUGHT FROM DAVE needless to say im not tryin to pick fights, nor am i trying to belittle anyone, i come here for advise, not to win a popularity vote who knows, maybe your the service manager from my dealership, take a step back and think about someone other than yourself for once... | ||
| Bigbird |
let me tell u why i think the service manager of my local shop is what i said he is... Don't tell me, tell him. If that doesn't work for you, go to the owner of the dealership and have a POLITE conversation with him about it. Express your dissatisfaction with the Service Manager's business practices and try to work the situation out with your dealer instead of coming here whining about a part you broke and rubbing their reputation in the dirt out of one side of your mouth while demanding that they (or Dave) help you out of the other side. so by you telling me to go pound salt, you can stick your salt where the sun dont shine...your cockyness and arrogance is rather annoying...expessialy since i dont know you and you dont know me...i am not a moron, i SAID i torqued the bolt 2 clicks UNDER SPECS not 2 Pounds over! and this wasnt a USED triple tree, THIS WAS A NEW ONE I BOUGHT FROM DAVE 1) I never called you a moron, but now I will. I don't care what you torqued the bolt to. You pried on it and applied force to it in a manner it was not designed to withstand. Others have posted here basically saying "been there, done that, it sucks but you are gonna have to pay for it", and you still want to cry about it. Face the facts. You broke it. Be a man, admit it, pay for it, and move on. Don't drag Daves name into this, don't publicly bash your dealer. Just get over it. As the song goes, "don't go away mad, just go away." who knows, maybe your the service manager from my dealership, take a step back and think about someone other than yourself for once... That would be impossible unless I drive 3 hrs each way to work. I'm in S.E. Ohio, not Pittsburgh, Jack. Your Service Manager, myself, Dave...that's 3 people who work in the business and all agree that this is not a warrantable repair, not to mention the others who have said they've broken the triple tree before too and knew it was their fault. Perhaps its time to look at the lowest common denominator...YOU! I think about and go to bat for customers whenever possible. Here is one example: I am COOP certified due to my warranty accuracy. Basically that means Harley trusts me. I have a pre-determined budget from the motor company to take care of certain customer issues that are out of warranty without the motor company's prior approval, in the interest of customer goodwill. I set out to use up ALL of that money during the year, and I use it to take care of those problems that just should not have occurred. There are customers and situations out there that absolutely deserve that money, and I'll give it to them whenever possible. That is what it is there for. However I will NOT use it to pay for something that was broken by an owner in his own garage as a result of using non-standard disassembly or repair procedures. That would be a good case of warranty fraud, and I'm not going there. Neither should Dave or your local dealer. Like I said in my first post, I would send it to Buell, explain the situation, and let them render a decision, but I would not make a decision to commit warranty fraud. You are asking the unreasonable, and if you can't see that you really are a moron. | ||
| Dj_rider |
you can kiss my •••... | ||
| Buells Rule! (Dyna in disguise) |
Dj/Jack......I have had disagreements with Bigbird myself in the past, but he is 100% on the money with this. You admitted to prying on it, the marks are visible & thats that. I dont understand why the hell Daves name even got brought into this? He sold you the part & thats all. Was it broken when you got it? No. It broke when you incorrectly installed it. It sucks, but oh well we have all been there at 1 time or another. | ||
| Buelldealer |
i am not putting the stealership down at all Really? Priceless example of an oxymoron. It’s really simple. You break it after prying on it, you’re responsible. We break it, we’re responsible. It permeates our society more and more every day. . .the victim mentality. Let’s blame someone, anyone, for our own mistakes. Whatever happened to personal responsibility?} | ||
| Dj_rider |
i never said anything bad about dave, i think dave is an excellent person...its these internet muscles that i CAN NOT stand... i was looking for advise, not a free ride... i make my money by making people dance, its a fun job and i love to do it...i have no problem buying another one, i just wanted to know if there was any other options besides buying another one... | ||
| Dj_rider |
and for the buelldealer fella, i am not putting my dealership down, just the service manager...i think my salesman, and the other people there are great | ||
| CJXB  |
You ask for advice and you got it, suck it up was the advice it's not anyone else's fault whether you think it's your or not !! Sounds like good advice to me, you won't accept it graciously is the problem and simply say "thank you" !! There's no need for this argument !! I agree with Bigbird !! CJ | ||
| Dj_rider |
 jump on the bandwagon hunnie:P | ||
| Firebolt020283  |
sorry man nothing aginst you but i got to agree with the rest of the people here this is one u definatly got to just suck up and buy another one. | ||
| Johncr250 |
Thats why i didn`t bother to get the Extended Warranty with my Buell because whatever goes wrong with the bike the Dealer will find some bullsh!t way to say that it was the owner fault. Buells get assembled incorrectly at the factory or assembled with crappy parts and the Dealer then tells its customer its there fault or its not covered under warranty. Parts such as Belts, footpegs, Triple Clamps, Wheel Bearings, Steering Head Bearings, Engine Isolaters, Spark Plugs stripped, and many other misc. stipped bolts fail all the time. These parts break and the Dealer tell you about some mysterious pry mark or about abuse, or how the muffler you put on overstressed the belt or wheel bearing. Or my favorite the belt failed because the tire is the same size, but not the same band as what came on the bike originally. Sooner or later people will realize that Buells are junk. | ||
| Buells Rule! (Dyna in disguise) |
DJ, time to get some people to  so you can afford to buy another one. | ||
| Bigbird |
you can kiss my •••... Well I'm not going to kiss it, but I do know of a certain motorcycle manufacturer who is about to insert a broken triple clamp up there  | ||
| Buelldealer |
and for the buelldealer fella, i am not putting my dealership down. . . I am sorry, but when you refer to your dealership as a stealership, that IS a put-down. | ||
| Aldaytona |
I think it's about time for the custodians to open a new TOPIC named "CRY BABIES" so that all the Buell riders no matter what they ride, old or new, any model, will have a place to bitch and moan about their dismay of Buell ownership. Imagine a specific place to vent displeasure of crappy bikes, crappy dealerships, crappy factory support, crappy engineers, and mostly an incompetent Eric Buell. A special place where like minds could go on almost forever about crappy things in life related to Buell ownership and not have to be interrupted with rational responses. No wasting time to try and argue to promote a venomous thought. Imagine every single posting would re enforce the prior persons belief in crappy Buells/dealerships/workmanship all without laying any blame on themselves. OH JOY! |
