| Author | Message | ||
     Balderon |
As I've mentioned before I'm considering a XB12S. A test ride at this point is not an option but I will diffinetly try before buying. Has anyone read http://www.motorcycle-usa.com/Article_Page.aspx?ArticleID=74 The review says of the Buell: "It feels scary to me” "The relative absence of front-end feel is a bit unnerving to the former roadracing set who sampled this duo" "Around town this riding position seemed fun at first,” said Brian Chamberlain about his experience aboard the Buell. But out on the highway and in the twisties it became very unnerving. Adding to my unease was the bikes short wheelbase and twitchy steering which seemed to make the bike feel very unstable" "The Buell is very responsive, yes, but maybe overly so" Comments? Opinions? | ||
| Glitch |
I've not read the article yet, but going from what you posted here, I'd bet money the reviewers didn't have the suspension set up right. These bike are so sensitive to adjustment because of the short wheel base, and aggresive rake. It's too bad these reviewers don't realise what's going on. It also tells us a lot about the reviewer's being underpowered and quirky. *Edit* my bad, I have read this article, I was thinking it was something new. (Message edited by Glitch on November 10, 2004) | ||
| Signguyxb12 |
Comment O.K.: Ride one, decide for yourself If you learn anything about Buells is that no matter how great they become they will always be bashed. furthermore: twitchy???. i have dragged pegs many times no twitchy here.....and i ride without getting paid for it | ||
| Gonen60 |
I ran across that article after buying My XB, and before picking it up. It freaked Me out a bit. The Best review you will get for the XBs, is to get on one and ride it. Keep the revs up and have at it. kool buell history http://americanbullets.blogspot.com/ | ||
| Daves |
Balderon, Could I interest you in a trip to Wisconsin? Dave daves@h-dappleton.com | ||
| Tbs_stunta |
Everyone assumes that you will fit a steering damper on a twitchy literbike. Its perfectly acceptable to do so on a Buell if you need to. | ||
| Davegess |
Twitchy? No way. It goes where I want it go and only there. | ||
| Jerseyguy |
I dunno, but I've never experienced anything like what is described in the article. I've got the suspension on my 9S set up according to the service manual for my weight and everything feels tight and precise to me. The only time it feels scary is at speeds over a hundred when the wind buffeting is bad because there is no fairing or windshield. I don't care to go that fast on the street anyway or I'd have gotten the R instead of the S. | ||
| M1combat |
They obviously didn't change the tires or have the bike setup right. Once you get the bike, change the tires to Pirelli Diablo's or Metzeler Sportec M1's. Set the suspension to your weight by the book (go from there if you'd like, I'm quite a ways from there and still safe  ). With the original D207 tires the bike seemed like it wanted to stand a little under braking which is indeed a little unsettling, but you should be doing all/most of your braking before a turn anyway. The D207 rear has a flatter profile than most "180" tires so it seemed actually a tiny bit sluggish to me. At the first tire change I went to the Metzelers and HOLY CRAP what a difference. I'd recomend getting the Metzelers before you pick the bike up and have them swapped out before you even ride it. Make sure you take it to a place that will be VERY careful with the rims. The local Honda shop already replaced my rear rim... | ||
| Court |
I can comment on the article...it's total unmitigated c**p. In conflict with virtually every review by every recognized reviewer. If it was "unnerving" I'd suggest the rider needs training. Court Canfield | ||
| Evil_twin |
M1, Aren't the new models coming with the D208's? Rich  | ||
| Racertroy |
hey all, i've had my xb9r for about a month now and have logged a couple thousand miles...prior to buying the 9r, i've ridden and raced several versions of japanese and since 2000, italian machinery...i will have to admit...the first time i layed the 9r over with any spirit, i noticed the twitch also...it was so in my face, that i wondered if the handling could ever be sorted out...to glitch's point, the suspension settings on this razor sharp geometry bike are important, without a doubt...spend time with the shop upon pick-up to dial in compression/rebound stacks to your riding style/conditions and have the ride-height/preload set for your weight...all time well spent that will make your riding enjoyment all the more fulfilling....however, i would go on to say that there is something inherent in the machine that takes time in the saddle to understand and comprehend (read: great excuse to ride more!)...my sensations of twitchy/fast steering continued during the first three rides...during which i noticed that the twitch (or 'dive' or 'loose' or whatever you particularly like to call it) was always occurring under a couple different conditions...1 when the turn radius reduced dramatically and 2 when coasting and changing lines through a corner...when i broke these down into what the bike an i were doing, the cause of the conditions were essentially one and the same...brake into the turn, chop throttle, change lines/lean angle, grab gas, accelerate out...in other words...i was being a lazy rider...using the traditional american 'save-the-inside-line' racing style by braking into the turn, chopping throttle and slashing inside...this caused a(n) (over)load on the front suspension as weight shifts and we blast through the suspension travel...would do so on any bike...and usually a good thing...however, much more noticable on a bike with little rake and steep steering angle...(Insert: the motor characteristics were also exacerbating the issue as the big v-twin not only has more torque down low but also more engine brake...thereby causing more weight shift forward when chopping throttle...anyway...back to suspension/geometry...)...as a percentage change during compression stroke, the steering geometry of the 9r is much greater (read: faster) than anything else i've ridden...i would venture to bet the same of the other test riders as well, once i became aware of the physics of what was going on, i was able to anticipate what i was doing to myself...and stop it...whew...so...a lot of hot air...but here's the summary...ride it hard, fast and smooth...brake early while you are still relatively perpendicular to the ground and GET IN THE GAS as you start to crank it over for the turn...when in the turn, stay on the gas...if you need to scrub speed, drag the rear brake but stay in the gas...small throttle adjustments (roll-on, roll-off) are no problem...but chopping the throttle closed will cause weight-shift/fast-twitch condition to manifest...when using this smooth, european time trial riding style, the bike handles very well and my confidence...and more importantly...my corner speeds...have increased...i have recently slide both front and rear tires around on my favorite twisty farm road at 3x the posted limit...all with no twitch condition (other than that special twitch condition that was holding me to the seat)...just my 2-1/2 cents....hope this helps... NOTE: DO NOT SPEED on PUBLIC ROADS ciao, --ts | ||
| Volkswagenfreaky |
Thats a Rice website , what did you expect !  | ||
| Glitch |
Your (Racertroy) two cents proves my point. You can't do a good review by hoping on a bike for a few runs. You've got to learn ANY bike that you're not used to. Maybe reviewers could add another "score point" by adding to a review the learning curve factor. Tell how easily they learned the bike, and how they like the bike AFTER they learn it. I wonder how much seat time these blokes get before writing a review. (Message edited by Glitch on November 10, 2004) | ||
| Bluebuellxb9r |
It all boils down to what/who are you going to believe ? Ride one for yourself ! Make your own opions . Seems like all of the press has complained about the " quirky " handling issues with the XBs. I wonder if they bothered to read the owners maual to get some good base line setting or if the just jumped in and moved fork tubes and tweaked everything the in the wrong direction ? I have noticed a ton of differences when adjusting the suspenion on my bike, this is the first bike Ive had where you can tell when you have too much/too little rebound or sping . Its pretty cool once you get it dialed in to your liking, but, untill then , if you dont know what direction to go, it can be a bit much. | ||
| Reepicheep |
It's only "twitchy" in the regard that it does *exactly* what you tell it to do *exactly* when you tell it to do it. So if "twitchy" means I can correct my line whenever and whereever mid-turn, then yeah, my XB is twitchy. I do have to be more careful, as the thing really is more responsive. I could get a little sloppy on the Cyclone, and it was a pretty forgiving bike. But with the XB, things like "you go where you look" or "you go where you are thinking about going" are even more amplified. I do see this as an opportunity for improvement, but can't see that as a defect. | ||
| Tommy_2stroke |
Clipped from a motorcycle.com ride review... FWIW... ...the Buell does steer a bit heavier than you'd expect, and it does have a bit more self-righting tendency than most, ie., you need to "hold it down" in turns. Naturally, I have a theory as to why that is, but we haven't gotten round to investigating it yet. We know one thing that causes that sort of behavior is the difference in width between a motorcycle's rear tire and its front. The Buell rides on a 120mm-wide front tire and a 180mm rear--like many current sportbikes--but could the fact that its contact patches are fully two inches closer together than the next shortest sportbike (Yamaha R6) exacerbate that tendency to stand up? I wouldn't be surprised if a 170 rear alleviated the Buell's heavy steering. (And once again, to me it's not even a problem. It's a thing I can feel which doesn't really bother me. Other riders are off-put by it.) Number two, Mini and Calvin are bothered by the Firebolt's chassis reactions to opening and closing the throttle. "First," Mini says, "it doesn't want to turn in with the brakes on, then, when you release them, it falls into the corner." Young Min is more sensitive than I, but I think what he's feeling is caused by the bike's zero-slack drive belt (which uses an idler wheel to eliminate slack from the final drive). On other chain-drive bikes, closing the throttle makes the bottom chain run go taut and has a mostly neutral effect on the swingarm--which leaves the bike free to transfer weight forward, compress the fork and steepen rake. The Firebolt, conversely, with the big idler wheel in its bottom belt run, looks like closing its throttle will make the rear wheel want to move upward in its travel, which means it's not going to transfer as much weight forward on the brakes--which makes it feel unwilling to turn, maybe especially if you're a big guy accustomed to lots of weight transfer. Then, releasing the brakes (and opening the throttle), again thanks to the zero-slack belt, means you're going instantly from a state where the belt wants to compress the rear, to a state where it wants to extend the rear suspension--suddenly, then, the rake steepens and the bike wants to turn. The cure for this, I think we learn the more we ride the Buell, is to be as smooth as possible, carefully blending brakes and throttle--and when you get used to it, I for one like the fact that the Buell seems to maintain more of a level attitude than most bikes--sort of like a BMW Telelever/Paralever feel. To me it feels very solid, and that's backed up by the fact that you do have to steer the Buell where you want it to go. Or, if you're like me and being really smooth is out of the question, you can just keep the gas on almost constantly. Getting back to the part about how early you can open the Firebolt's throttle: Crack it open (or whack it open) before the apex, and you can fully experience what the bike is about. Nothing I can recall riding can carve such tight arcs, and that's what allows the Buell to scamper away from more powerful bikes. | ||
| Tommy_2stroke |
And from personal experience, my 12S is certainly not "twitchy", "scary", "unnerving" or anything like it. What it is, is RESPONSIVE, alive, involving. It blends this responsiveness with a high degree of stability that quickly builds rider confidence. If you are used to a long-wheelbase Duc or suchlike, your first few minutes on the Buell will feel strange, but this quickly passes. Brake early while upright, start turning and get on the gas and stay on it! You will fly... | ||
| M1combat |
One more thing... With the original D207's, I found that hanging WAY off and using proper form helped a lot with it's tendency to stand under braking. The original 207 was measured by someone on this website and found that it was more like a 190 than the 180 Pirelli they put on. I have swapped to Metzelers (which is the same tire as the Diablo, just different tread pattern) and I can tell you that it transformed the bike for the better. It wasn't just the new tire syndrome either... The bike darts into a corner like a terrier after a rabbit whether I'm on the brakes or not now. I do run the rear preload a little higher than the factory recommendation as well. It seems to me that with the unconventional/radical geometry of these bikes, they basically force you to ride properly. That fact makes me suspect the skill/interest of a reviewer. Maybe they get bored/sloppy with their job just like most other people. | ||
| Joele |
I let the magazines talk me out of buying a Buell for the past two years. Then I took a test ride and I was instantly sold! You have to take a ride before you make your decision - don't just listen to the opinions of the magazine writers. | ||
| Darthane |
Rich, the D208 has the same profile as the D207, and it's the profile, not the compound, that we believe causes the nasty little habits. | ||
| Outrider |
I let the magazines talk me out of buying a Buell for the past two years..........don't just listen to the opinions of the magazine writers. Or any other self-proclaimed expert critic that quotes chapter and verse rather than speaking from experience with the bike. Joele...That is one of the best statements I have ever read on the BWB. | ||
| Frankie123456 |
I have an XB, and can understand the concept of "twitchy" It felt the same to me, but (like others) read the manual, and dialed in the suspension, I started with the factory settings, but then moved to a more aggressive setting, and feel the bike is better than when I picked it up. It took me a bit to find the settings I like, and the Buell does ride different than other bikes, I have also figured out that the bike likes to be under power in turns, and have realized through trial and error, that the throttle is best slightly before the apex of the turn. I prefer my Buell to other bikes I have ridden, it goes where I look, with out any thought. I like that. Frankie | ||
| Flick |
The only thing "unstable" or "twitchy" about the XB's, is the guys "testing" them... | ||
| Glitch |
I'm with Flick! | ||
| Jerseyguy |
Joele - I call guys who buy like that "spec. buyers". They read all the magazines and feel empowered if they buy this year's "Best" as defined by the media. Its the same with cars. I've driven Porsches for many years and there has always been a car (usually Japanese)that has more horsepower, better lateral g force, higher top end, blah, blah and costs half the price. So what. The ONLY thing that counts is how it makes YOU feel when YOU drive or ride it. I've owned and ridden more kinds of bikes than I can even remember. One test ride on a Buell and it was all over for me. | ||
| Blake |
"Responsive" is the correct characterization. | ||
| Tatsu |
The more I ride my bike the more I am learning. Suspension set up is critical. When I first got my bike, I had the factory settings and when I got into the first curb I was like WHOA. I was so use to the ZX600, this was totally different. The bike wasn't fighting me in the turn. I had gotten so use to fighting the bike in a turn, that I actually automatically did it on the Buell. Since then I have dialed in the suspension and read two books. Total Control and A Twist of the Wrist. My bike goes where I want to go with no effort what so all. I have a 12R. I could see where going high speed would present a problem, without a fairing windscreen. The only thing I'm trying to get up the nerve to do is one of those mondo wheelies and a burnout. Not necessary, but man they sure do look fun. | ||
| Fullpower |
i say they have their collective heads in their @$$. i ride standing up, no handed figure eights on my lightning, idling in first gear. how much more stable can you make a motorcycle? maybe those idiots should start a new mag, possibly Trike-USA, or sidecar-USA. | ||
| Raraf |
For the street the XB9S is perfect for my riding style. No twitchiness. Now when I friends' crotchity rockets I feel uncomfortable due to the pressure on my hands and really being far forward. I feel like the bike is twitchy...I am sure that is fine on the tracks...but not for me on the streets. |
