| Author | Message | ||
     Crip2nite |
Took the bike to work this morning and it started pinging slightly when I was in 5th and giving it throttle. On the way home, every time I wanted to pick up speed to pass someone even in 3rd & 4th, it started f@ckin' pinging again! I'm using the same exact gas all week(Sunoco 93 octane). The only thing I think I might be doing wrong is giving it too much throttle too quick. I got so used to running my Sporty that way but the pinging really increased 2day! Do you think maybe Sunoco got crappy gas this week?? | ||
| Dasbuell |
When you fill up is the pump for premium only... or is it for multiple grades and you select? If a shared nozzle for multiple grades... are you topping off or filling a near empty tank? Who ever pumped gas before you picked premium may have pumped regular... and what remains in the hose will come our until the premium mix starts to be fed in the hose... so you basically are mixing to have gas at a lower octane than the 93. If you frequently top off a tank... you might actually be getting little or no premium gas... just what was left in the hose/filter from the previous sell. I am assuming Sunoco does not have a dedicated pump that is premium only. If they do... disregard... this does not apply. (formerly dasxb9s - still having pinging in by head no matter what the fuel) | ||
| BadS1 |
How fast were you going in fifth gear???Are you possibly going to slow for the given gear?? | ||
| Crip2nite |
I always top off after work for the next day. It is a shared nozzle! That could be the prob! I was going about 65mph in 5th and bought it up to 100mph. I wonder if I tried to bring it up too quick?? | ||
| Dasbuell |
Maybe find a station with a dedicated premium pump and start using that station. I think some BP stations (at least in the midwest) are dedicated pumps... might be wrong. Give some time of topping off at a dedicated premium pump until you are sure you have a tank full of premium... then if it still pings... I'd think that factor has been eliminated from the cause. (formerly dasxb9s - still a bit gassy) | ||
| BadS1 |
Its not the gas!!!We've went round and round with the dedicated pump crap.Its gotta be timing off.Or is the stepper motor possibly not working properly. | ||
| M1combat |
Hmmm, the actuator motor is a good thought... The first time I had my airbox cover off (right after my dealer performed the 1K serice) I found that the little adjustment mechanism was loose and the cable was loose. I tightened it down to where the cable is just at the point that it has VERY little slack. I'm still not convinced that using a single hose pump doesn't give you any low octane fuel though. (just for the record...) | ||
| Dasbuell |
Not wanting to start a fight... and having posted a question asking for volume between the switching valve and nozzle on the "octane" thread... If one for argument sake discovers there is 30 oz in the hose and you top off with say less than a gallon... I would think at least in that mix... you would not be getting what ya just paid for... and if you did that every fill up... there would be a diluted mix... now if that arguable could cause a ping?? Who knows without testing that mix for accurate octane in that mix?? Take a big tumbler of water... pour it into a gallon jug... fill the rest with milk... bet you could taste the difference between that with the water and a gallon that was not mixed down! there has to be some difference... now if it is significant is yet another question! (formerly dasxb9s - still a slow learner) | ||
| Deerhunter17 |
Crip, I feel for you, I have experienced the same thing. I've been around this fuel thing, and don't believe it is the cause. I am running Mobil-1 V twin, 20w 50, has about 100 miles on so far, ( 3890 on bike) Mine happens when the bike gets warmed up. While still cold it won't ping. It has gotten worse over the past two weeks. I am wondering if it could be timing. I have my bike scheduled for a TPS adjustment on the 9th, so I stopped by my friendly HD shop to ask if they could check the timing while they have it. He asked why? Ahhh. This I have to share. The "Qualified" service writer or whatever they call him says to me " They all do that ( when I informed him of my pinging problem) He told me that I have to down shift before I accelerate. Then he askes me what type of bike (?). I said Buel XB12R,, " Oh especially on the Buell. Those things need the r's turn run. You have to down shift". His response to my choice of motor oil was a sour face and a "no wonder" "Thats your problem. Mobil1 is no good... We use HD 20 -50, or the HD Synthetic." He even went on to tell me that he rides a "Crotch Rocket" and tried synthetic oil, and his started making noises he never heard before, so he switched back. soooo, I am in search of someone in the Fredrick MD area that can service, tune,and care for my Buell!.. and yes, it is DETONATION, serious valve noise, not my imagination.. I have been around engines for quite some time, and though I may not know the specifics of building them, I KNOW when they are not performing as intended... sorry for the rant... | ||
| M1combat |
"there has to be some difference... now if it is significant is yet another question! " I believe it would be significant. I mixed .5 gallons of 110 with a 3.2 gallons of 91. After about 40 miles I wiped the inside of the tail pipe with my finger. A !LOT! cleaner. The deposits were almost non-existant and this was at the end of the pipe. I can imagine just how much cleaner the head was. I now run a half a gallon of 110 through it about once a month, always mixed with about 3.2 gallons of 91, never straight or even close. I don't notice any heat difference, and as far as power... Not much difference other than the lower RPM's it seems a bit smoother. | ||
| Darthane |
65? You should be in 3rd gear! -=cue Dyna=- | ||
| Crip2nite |
But remember....It just started today! That's why I might be leaning toward a fuel problem. I'm gonna try what Das said and empty the tank and then fill up with high octane from a dedicated premium pump. I sure as 5hit hope that's the problem..bike only has 2,400 miles on it!! | ||
| M1combat |
What's the temperature? On my trip to the American Sport Bike BBQ last weekend I got a little pinging in fifth at about 3500-3900 RPM's when I was in the desert. It would happen when I rolled on the throttle hard, but I could get on it just enough to get the max acceleration out of it just fine... | ||
| Dasbuell |
I have been reading this thread and the octane thread... and I see a pattern... maybe a weak pattern but a pattern... some of the ones who can run regular gas with no ping are not in hot climates... some of the ones that have had pinging problems with regular gas have been in hotter climates... quality of gas... different blends for regional differences and very hot weather seems to be something to factor in. I don't know if it applies here... but this is what I observed... so a slight difference in a cooler area might not be the problem it is in a very hot area... so POSSIBLY a mixed blend that lowers the octane in a cooler climate might not cause the problem that it might be in a very hot climate. BTW... I took some 5/8 ID hose 7 foot long and it held 19 oz of water (2.7142857 oz per foot)... so if a gas pump hose is smaller in ID and we assign 2.5 oz per foot of hose... and if we estimate 12 foot between the fuel selection valve inside the pump housing and the valve on the nozzle we put in the tank, and not factor in an in line fuel filter on the pump... that would mean there was no less than 30 oz of gas left in the hose from the previous use. In anycase, if the previous pumping was regular and you bought premium... ya ain't getting what you are paying for... octane blending to a lower grade aside. (formerly dasxb9s - still hurts my head when I think, and sometimes I makes mistake I have to fix with an edit) (Message edited by dasbuell on September 03, 2004) | ||
| BadS1 |
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| R1DynaSquid |
65? You should be in 3rd gear! -=cue Dyna=- LOL, or maybe only 2/3rds of the way thru 1st  | ||
| Fullpower |
detonation is NOT serious valve noise. what exactly are we refering to here? does the noise sound like a whole bunch of little kids with ball pein hammers tapping on your piston crowns, and only while opening the throttle? this is detonation. try putting a few 12 ounce bottles of ISO-HEET ( red bottle) in your fuel tank. if it was indeed an octane problem, it will go away promptly. 3 common factors in detonation problems are: excess heat (fan running?), restricted fuel delivery, low fuel pump pressure, should be 49 psi ( check plugs, see if they have any color whatsoever), and excessive ignition advance. it is rare for electronic ignition systems to spontaneously advance themselves, but you may want to check your static timing. i think you can use the green/white wire at pin 3 on the grey ecm connector. good luck, keep us posted. dean | ||
| Trenchtractor |
Do you guys in the states get any ethanol based fuels like E10 or E20... Ethanol is an oxygenated fuel, so it won't help your cause... I have never used it, but it seems from discussions with friends that not many people realise the Ethanol has the same effect as leaning out your mix... I'd like to see everyone who has a problem post details of weather they are on 9's or 12's, live in hot climates, regional quality of fuel, race ECM or stock ECM... I was in the category of 12 with race ECM, 95RON best quality fuel (our 95RON is more comparitable to USA 90RON), living in hot climate... I now run 98RON (stated to get it a month or so ago) and run stock ECM and my problem is gone. Couldn't do much about the climate, though. | ||
| Dasbuell |
I run a XB9 with a race kit and a XB12 air box cover. I live in Kansas City, Missouri. (Smack dab in the center in the US for you down under). Typically mildly to miserably humid in the summer, and upper 90s July & August, except this year it has been unseasonably cool. Many days not even warm enough to run air conditioning. I run premium gas with no alcohol or any other stuff like that. I have never had a ping on the XB. However... I also own a Blast... run regular gas in it... and when it gets warm and I fail to give it enough throttle when taking off from a stop sign and lug it a bit... it pings. If the rpm is up... it never does it. My fiancee's bike... she has given up on it, and I only ride it a little to exercise it. So it could be a timing issue. (formerly dasxb9s - still riding alone) | ||
| M1combat |
Prescott AZ. That would be up in the Northern Arizona Mountains. Dry and "warm" but certainly not hot. If the bike is hot and I'm sitting at a light and goose the throttle it will ping once only every once in a while (on hot days after running it fairly hard). I idle just below 1000. Other than that, it doesn't ping at all ever up here. On my trip to California last weekend - I picked up some 91 that said "This pump may contain Ethanol (or was it Methanol)". After heading back out on I10 for a while I found it was pinging just a little bit from 3200-4000 in fifth with the throttle set for acceleration. I was able to reproduce this result running through the desert on Hwy78 through southern California on the way back. 12R. I can certainly live with that. | ||
| Tatsu |
One thing I notice here in Hawaii with the heat and traffic, is that if I fail to drop the bike in a lower gear and roll on hard with the throttle, the engine will ping if I've been sitting in traffic. So now I make sure I am in a lower gear and slowly give it throttle, once traffic is moving again. The bike is fine if I do that. | ||
| Wyckedflesh |
Having bounced from the heat of the AZ desert and the ethenol blend in the gas, my ping problems promptly vanished in the cool humid MI climate. AZ typically is very difficult to find higher then 92oct find, yet in MI I could get 94, which the XB12 truly loves. Even lugging wouldn't cause it to ping. One thing I have noticed that was mentioned as sounding like pinging...check your primary chain and make sure its adjusted right. The one time in MI that I did hear pinging, it turned out to be my primary chain slapping under the hard loading. Tightened it up to 3/8" cold play and didn't have a problem at all. Even running through Canada and their pathetic 90octane fuel wouldn't cause it to ping. Stock XB12 snorkleless Arizona(AZ) heat and summer blend fuel (up to 10% ethenol/methenol) 92octane pings under load in 5th Arizona(AZ) winter, winterblend fuel (no ehtenol/methenol) 92octane no pings Michigan(MI) 92-94octane no pinging what so ever Delaware(DE) August heat/humidity 93octane no ping (will take a pic of the stickers concerning the fuel blend for the summer months) | ||
| Odie |
Has anybody tried any octane booster??? | ||
| Crip2nite |
Das...Hate to say it but...YOU WERE 100% RIGHT ON THIS ONE! I emptied the tank all the way, took it to Amoco up the road(seperate hoses) The bike ran better than ever! did over 200 miles today without so much as a hint of "ping"! I have a bad habit of always topping it off no matter what my destination is as soon as I take off from somewhere,I always feel better topping it off(usuallly w/a shared nozzle). The bike kicked butt today(hit 135mph for the 1st time with no f^kin' ping. THEORY OF THE SHARED NOZZLE IS TRUE GUYS! | ||
| BadS1 |
Crip its not the gas unless you got in some bad gas and dirty.Meaning the filling station you went to pryor to where you just went hasn't changed out there pummp filters that are BTW individual filters at all pumps dedicated or not nation wide. | ||
| Dasbuell |
Give it a few days and a few tank full to say for sure... temp and atmospheric conditions may also be a factor. I usually have to use a shared pump as a dedicated one is hard to find any place near my house... but I hardly ever gas up until my low fuel light indicates it really needs a drink! I hope that was it... but wait and see before you give me a big head for actually accidentally being correct once!  (formerly dasxb9s - still an old fart) | ||
| Crip2nite |
But I've been using that same Sunoco for about a month every day! It's a hop,skip & a jump from my house. Why all of a sudden in one day would the gas become "dirty"?? I'll bet my house(along with the wife & kids,but not the bike) that the shared nozzle was the culprit! (Message edited by crip2nite on September 04, 2004) | ||
| SouthernMarine |
Another good reason for me to leave Yuma. Pinged like friggin crazy today. | ||
| Wyckedflesh |
Bad tank from the delivery truck, the tank being rather low so your getting the dregs or they haven't changed the filter as Dana mentioned and it is just now getting to the point that the fuel is bypassing the filter. Das, the only problem with your measurements that I saw above, there is a bleedvalve at the top of the pump where the fuelhose attaches so the fuel bleeds back down. Now another thing to think about in your thoughts, where do you think the pump control is for the fuel? Its not in the handle...Its at the bottom of the pump body. Once the pressure is shut off at the bottom of the pump body, the remaining fuel above the body drains back down leaving what didn't go dribbling past the handle in the hose. Figure just for arguements sake, that maybe 1/3 of the hoses contents actually goes past the handle at shutoff and into the tank/dribbles on the paint ect...Now redo your figures. Oh, and for those that don't know, midgrade, is a blend of highgrade and low grade, so if someone fueled up with midgrade before you, the amount of lowgrade is even lower by the mix ratio. | ||
| Dasbuell |
Who knows... I grew up in a town with a refinery. The Standard Oil truck went from station to station making deliveries. The Standard station and even the competitive gas stations... all got gasoline from the same source. The lowest price I remember for gas was 19.9 cents a gallon during gas wars. Coulda been some goof accidentally dumped regular gas from the tanker into the premium holding tank... could be the "30 oz hose theory"... could be a dishonest place that is purposely putting regular in the premium holding tank to boost profits. Stations have often been caught messing with pumps to short sell (pump says it pumps a gallon, but is actually less), there have been big fines for that stuff. Who knows for sure... I hope the problem is corrected... and you have no other issues. (formerly dasxb9s - still fulla crap) |
