| Author | Message | ||
     Gonen60 |
I was just thinking, Us as Buell riders are pretty much in "No Man Land" when it comes to being type cast. We are sportbike riders, But are not readily excepted into the world of true "SportBikes" (Honda,Yam,Kaw,Suz)... And in many cases are outcast in the "follow the Sheep" World of HD.. I for one, could care less about the Land of HD, But I do Like the Sportbike scene. I guess it's just Human nature wanting to be accepted. I do think of My bike as a true Sportbike. Of course there are exceptions to all rules and over all, I like being in our own small clique.. Thoughts? | ||
| Fdl3 |
I consider the Firebolt a sportbike. The only reason other "sportbike" riders don't is because it has a HD-derived engine. Basically anything related to HD in the minds of these "real sportbike" riders must be inferior. So while they lament the sterotypes surrounding HD, they promote their on form of stereotyping! I ride what I ride because I like it...! | ||
| Flick |
Well then, here's an interesting scenario...I'm at the local Tim Hortons last evening after a short scoot on the 9S. A bunch of guys hang out here almost every night of the week, and I drop in every once in a while to see if anything new or unusual shows up. So, I pull into the parking lot on my XB...there's an obvious schism going on here! Hardley Ableson riders on the west side of the lot...sportybikes on the east. There's hardly any room on the HA (i.e. HD) side, so I park with the fewer sport bikes. I no sooner get off the Buell than here's this kid (about 18-19) with two of his buddies standing beside me. "Hey, man, I LOVE the looks of that bike. The next bike I get is gonna be a Buell! That bike is way too cool! But I'm gonna get the 12!" At which point, I ask him what he's currently riding. It's a Yamaha 600 - older model. I tell him to be sure to test ride BOTH the 9 and 12 models, as there is a difference in the redlines on both bikes and the way the power comes on, and he may change his mind after riding the 9 and 12. He thanks me, and leaves shortly after with his pack of young sportybiker buddies on various Ninjas, R6's, GSXrs, etc.. After leaving Tim Hortons, I start thinking...are the Buell/HA dealerships ready for these younger riders!? I reflect on the situation at my dealership...nooooo, I don't think they have a CLUE what's coming! I want to see the look on the Hardley dealerships faces when these mobs of 18-19 year olds start invading with a notion to purchase. Lets hope, as businessmen, they get their heads around the new phenomenon sooner rather than later, cause I think it could be happening real soon! And God knows, they are going to have to attract younger riders after all us geezers quit this veil of tears! What better product than the Buells? | ||
| M1combat |
I think that's one of the main issues contributing to the "stealership" problem WRT Buell. They see the XB as an attractor of younger clientel and they DON'T WANT IT! This absolutely MUST be addressed by Harley. I think it will come in the form of bonuses paid to those salesman who promote Buells. | ||
| Xb9rski |
My Wife told me this weekend that our 12 yr old son said "When I get older I'm going to have a Buell like Dad". Thats My Boy!!!!! The wifes Blast will be his first of many I am sure. | ||
| Kcfirebolt |
I've always felt that my Buell let me straddle all three worlds. Most Harley folks recognize that the DNA is real close to home. The sportbike people see it as one of their own, kinda like the eccentric uncle they don't really know what to do with but nice to have around. The European bike crowd loves the engineering ideas and the size/handling potential. I love the fact that the Buell lets me cross clique lines at will. | ||
| Doughnut |
Buell is the red-headed step-child. I get more grief from Harley riders then I do from import riders. edited by doughnut on April 05, 2004 | ||
| Buellgator |
 I get the most grief from the Harley riders. Import guys can be jerks to, but they also can be very willing to accept the Buell in their midst. Then again I give the HD guys just as much as they dish out. I like my motorcycle if I wanted a frickin' cruiser I woulda got one.  you if you don't like my choice of motorcycle. | ||
| Court |
>>>I think it will come in the form of bonuses paid to those salesman who promote Buells. There have been a number of attempts at such "engineered motivation" since 1997. I've pontificated on the need for change, the method and what I see as the 9 critical points since 1997. Change will come but the threshold that will prompt it is high. Try selling the idea of breast implants to Dolly Parton. Court | ||
| Az28 |
Having been a Harley rider since 1972, I have seen alot of changes come and go. When the Yuppie crowd got involved is when I noticed Harley riders would now bash other Harley riders based on their choice of Harleys. Today,if you don't own a full "custom" you get no respect. Next year it'll be something else. Ride what you like. Isn't that what motorcycling is all about? "No-Man's Land" ? No,I think it's more like "This-Man's Land"  | ||
| Buckinfubba |
"Try selling the idea of breast implants to Dolly Parton. " Court you are the man. I hate to say this but I believe someday there will be change....but It is so far away in coming that its hard to hang in there sometimes. Maybe I take my job to seriously, maybe I have too much passion....when you read that , that sounds stupid. But here in the trenches of HD that is a detriment. They want you to dress the same , they want the dealerships to look the same, they want the sales dept's. to act the same. Its all about being the same, but they market this individualism and freedom thing to the hilt. There hog chapters are all about who the leaders are and the rest of you ass munches follow us and don't deviate off the path. Kinda of one big contradiction of terms. Then here comes Buell, something different, not just to HD but to the sportbike world also. With many of the Buell riders out there that couldn't give 2 shits about HD because most of us can see thru the shiney marketing crap. They are freakin clueless what to do, because they hate change, not that they hate change but their customer base sure does. so they attempt to get their sales force to sale bikes that they don't like, don't understand, and don't want to get know or understand. So they hold onto the bikes in the store til they are old age and then devalue the bike by giving it away. about the dumbest business plan I have ever heard of this side of seeing an Ice cream truck in mid feburary in Green Bay. Now every other manufacture of a motor vehicle, be it cars, motorcycles, water craft you name it. They franchise out to who wants to sell their product, how many dealerships have we seen.... so and so's Honda ,Kawasaki, yamaha.... whatever's Ducati, BMW, Triumph, Huskavarna store of wherever. what is so Hard to see or fathom seeing "the way it should be Buell ,Triumph, Ducati" or "we actually like all kinds of motorcycles Honda, Buell,Kawasaki" in my feeble mind it is not that hard...and don't give me the shit of PHD certified....Buell certified techs....Do you think this is rocket science. Its just schooling and Knowledge. Yes would it mean corperate HD would actually have to loosen the reigns a little bit and maybe even have to work harder than they already do...maybe. But would it maybe help....I don't know. But the way they are going about it now is definately not working. Yeah I am always the supposed doomsday guy around here. I don't see it that way. And I really don't care if some of you do. I am on the inside fighting it out in the trenches everyday and I see this shit with my own eyes. It is frustrating and last time I checked my name is not on the bikes, so why the hell do I care so much? Because I feel a kinship with the guy whose name is on the bike, a rebellious sorta fella who sees things a lil cockeyed from the rest and isn't afraid to go for it. flying a big fuck you to the world. only problem is , once it leaves it is out of his and his peoples control and its laid into the hands of mostly totally inept dealers, sales managers and salesman, service managers, parts people, and techs. why are they inept...because they just don't give a fuck about it. If someone wanted a franchise of buell that also had some other lines, it would most likely be because they had an interest in the bikes even possibly a passion about it. God damn tell me that wouldn't work out well for the buell name. sorry I went on and on......but there is a storm a brewing and I am about to call out to auntie EM...because there is a twister coming. | ||
| Brucelee |
IMHO it is time for HD to spin Buell out of HD or sell the division to someone who wants to do it right. The fact is, Buell has the worst of all worlds now, a technology that is VIEWED as passe (the engine) and a distribution and service system that is doomed to fail the product. No leverage of ANYTHING that HD does well is applied to the Buell (save manufacturing perhaps!). My experience here in SOCAL is that the XB is viewed as a breakthrough design by knowledgable riders who will totally bail when they hit the HD doors and are treated the way they will be treated. Too bad. I love the bike but the dealers and HD live in another land. Time to move this bike to a different venue. | ||
| Mikej |
There is more to the story than can be openly stated. Change is closer than it was yesterday, and not as close as it will be tomorrow. Livin' in the darkness waitin' on the light:  | ||
| Wyckedflesh |
HD has the the opportunity to build lasting friendships with the next generation. I can say if I got treated better by HD, when it came time for a cruiser I would have no problems walking into an HD dealership and buy one to go with my Buell. I just don't see that happening. I see myself buying one of the japanese makes of cruisers when I decide it is time to buy one. Until then I will love my Buell and ride it like its ment to be ridden and be prepared to rebuild it myself. | ||
| Henrik |
Not at all "doomsday" Bubba. That's exactly how I feel. With very few exceptions, going to the HD Boutique with a Buell issue is an exercise in futility. (You know my local NY exceptions, Baldy, Jay, Dave King, who have all moved on  ) Which is why I'm a bit apprehensive about now owning an XB. With the S2 I had pretty much liberated (word chosen deliberately) myself from the Dealership Quagmire. Now, I *have* to go for at least the TPS reset, should I ever need it. The Dealership Experience really IS the "fly in the ointment" of Buell ownership. Henrik (I know, Steve - I'll just take a ride out to your shop, should I need TPS work  ) | ||
| Glitch |
I bought mine with the idea that the HD guys and te squids would feel the same way towards me. Much to my surprise, more tend to like the bike than I thought. Since I bought the XB, I've been approched with good attitudes from all. Mine and Mike's bikes got "Bikes of the Week" from the Georgia Sportbike Association. I've been asked to join in rides from the local HOG group. Just about everyone in the T.W.O. area tells me they love the new Buells. The March Badness held at T.W.O. was a major success, almost breaking the two day record the first day. T.W.O. is dominated by the big 4, Ducs, and Beemers. Ever since I bought the XB, Stone Mountain HD/Buell has really stepped up to the plate, moving forward in supporting Buell (I'd like to think I had a little to do with this), and starting a BRAG chapter, and hiring two more Buell techs. So even though I bought my Buell thinking (with eyes wide open) I was heading into "No Man's Land", it really hasn't turned out to be that bad at all. My only complain being that I have to be a little creative finding parts, I recently bought the only known drive belt in the metro area. | ||
| Buelluk |
I have always been aware of the HD dealership attitude and as far as other riders are concerned, trying coming form the UK where they describe Harleys and Guzzi's as tractors, but it 's really a case of being knowledgeable about the bike and it's technology, I still bought the XB even though my dealership was getting out of Buell. I don't give a s&*# about the attitude about Harley riders on the road, most of them wouldn't recognize a pre-EVO motor if it ran over their heads ,they don't know anything about bikes or Harleys in general , it's the lifestyle bullshit again...and don't get me started about the AMF years! | ||
| Reepicheep |
While we are piling on... The Harley problems might be equally annoying to Cruiser owners as well. My local Harley shop in Cincinnati (name omitted to protect the guilty) does not have harley parts either. I bother with them when I need things like bolts, gaskets, primary tensioners, etc. Stuff that is on both my Cyclone and the Sportster. More then half the time, they don't have it in stock. Or won't bother to go look for it. Stupid little consumable stuff like common bolts and gaskets. The Harley riders must just be willing to leave their bike down for a week at a time for stupid little stuff. I just replaced my Stator, I did not even TRY to see if the local shop had the stator (but F&S Buell in Dayton did, God Bless 'em). But I forgot to ask for the 4 "non reusable" allen head bolts from F&S. So I stopped in the local Cincinnati Harley (they dropped the Buell sign, and never really supported them anyway). They had three of them, I needed four. The only reason you don't have this sort of stuff in stock is because you just don't care about your customers, or because your customers don't care. One other time, I needed a primary gasket for God's sake, and they claimed they did not have that in stock. WTF? When it is done right, it is great. F&S Harley / Buell / Suzuki / Kawasaki in Dayton rocks. I had to more or less rebuild my Cyclone tranmission, and they stocked every part but one, and got the last part quickly. The root problem? Harley dealers are a subset of motorcycle dealers. Good Harley dealers are a subset of Harley Dealers. Not all good Harley dealers will wan't to be Buell dealers. So your solution domain gets real narrow real fast. Thats why there are probably only a dozen or so (if we are lucky) good Buell dealers on the planet. | ||
| Buellgator |
Bubba, Well said. I feel the same way most of the time. Every once in a while you get the glimmers of hope though. The XB was a major leap for Buell, and it made me happy to see them moving in that direction. Different in every sense, I've come to realize that this doesn't just apply to the motorcycles, but the riders to. Most of the people buying these aren't happy just to own another Harley or clone. They also don't want some racer replica either. They want a unique, fun, and new experience. People are starting to wake up and realize that these new bikes are not just great chassis with breathed on Sporty motors. My father used to say that Buell was the future of Harley. I believe it, my brother believes it, and a couple of the guys at the shop believe it. As long as the dealers have people like you this brand will survive. Keep fighting the good fight, Paul | ||
| Doughnut |
What is the demographics of a Buell rider? Just wondering? | ||
| Mikej |
14-94 years old; income between nil and $5,000,000; education level ranging from grade school dropout to multiple PhD's; employment ranging from fast food french fry frier to micro surgeon, from bike shop mechanic to aerospace engineer; height from 4'6" to well over 6'9"; weight from under 100Lbs to well over 300Lbs; social status ranging from social deviant to CongressCritter, from school crossing guard to Police Officer, from hotel staff to Military Service Personnel. What is the demographics of actual Buell owners? It covers the whole realm of possibilities. What is the marketing department defined demographic of Buell riders and owners and enthusiasts? It appears to vary widely depending on what event you attend and who you talk to and what day of the week it is and what time of the season it is. At one point it appeared that the defined demographic model of the Buell target market was closely aligned to a Gap clothing store manequin. Right now? I have no idea, and I suspect some that should don't either. YMMV, as may your demographics.  | ||
| Doughnut |
That was kinda my point. I keep hearing about Buells being targeted towards young males, But I see very few young males on buells. I see a fair amount of women, I,ve only seen one Buell rider younger then me,(I'm 27). Most of the riders appear to be middle aged. Buell seems to have one of the most diverse group of riders. | ||
| Buckinfubba |
Since june when I tokk over , more than half my sales of xb's has been to men under 30 years old and 1/4 under 25. the middle age thing was a much stronger argument for the tubers. and yes us old farts are still riding xb's reepicheep very well said and notice the store you said that rocks has suzuki's and kawasaki's also....but a new buell can't be sold in any of their stores. go figure that one out | ||
| Fdl3 |
Doughnut: Heh, heh...compared to the average age of HD buyers, you and I (31) are just the "younger market" HD is looking for! | ||
| Doughnut |
I must confess, if I could afford an H-D, I would get one. I would not give up the Buell though. | ||
| Reepicheep |
Heh heh... if I could afford a H-D, I would have an XB12S and a KLR-650, or maybe that BMW single (650 rockster or something). Oh wait, wrong thread  | ||
| Buckinfubba |
I can afford an hd got a buell and a triumph tiger instead... ooops I crossed the line  | ||
| Buelluk |
Much as I love my Buell , once it's paid off I will be getting a Night train / road king...for the wife you know...whatever happens I will still be keeping the XB | ||
| Mookie |
i got grief from my family because i didnt get a harley. to be honest, if i didnt have the respect for my father in law, i may have not gotten a buell. I couldnt be happier tho. now i just got to get my father in law on my bike. his got a hd and he likes to go fast. i didnt know his bike would go over 100. | ||
| Evil_twin |
Yeah, I guess I may have gotten lucky in the "acceptance" department. Most of the guys that I ride with have the usual canter of, "It doesn't matter what you ride, only that you ride.". I pretty much think the same way. I like my Buell. It suit my personality and my riding preferences. I could really give two shits what someone else thinks about it. It makes me grin. Rich  |
