| Author | Message | ||
     Zoink |
Posted this on another forum, but haven't really gotten much help. There seems to be a bit more knowledgeable people here so I thought I'd see what kind of help you guys would offer. This is my post: So I decided to make another thread...this is the problem from the first one Quote: "1. When I put the bike in first gear when stopped it starts moving. It's not much, but if I pick my feet up and balance the bike on level ground it will slowly crawl along. ..." I tried adjusting the clutch at the cable, which needed it, that didn't fix it. I adjusted it at the inside and that didn't fix it. I bought the bike with one of the clutch easy pull mechanisms (inner ramp) so I thought putting the stock one back in might help, put it in and tightened the screw down until it made contact, then backed it out 1/2 turn like the book says. After I did that the clutch cable needed adjusting again so I did that and it's still doing it. Before putting the stock inner ramp back in the clutch would hit the grip when pulled all the way tight, now there's about 1/2-3/4" between the grip and the lever when pulled all the way in. Even so the back wheel still spins on the rearstand when it's put into 1st gear. The service shows the following causes for clutch drag: Incorrect clutch adjustment Worn clutch release ramps or balls Warped steel clutch plates Blade worn or damaged clutch gear splines Overfilled primary So I've done the adjustments and the primary isn't overfilled (it's filled to just above the teeth at the bottom of the bigger primary cover). Is there anything else that can be done or does it look like I need a new clutch. Bike is an 03 xb9r w/ 6k miles (seems awfully early to need one  ). These are the responses I got and my answers Quote: Originally Posted by BrettXB12r "You need to unadjust the cable first then readjust your clutch and go back to the cable and readjust it. You cant adjust your cable first it wont perform properly." Quote: "Originally Posted by moosestang Yeah! You must loosen the cable until the lever is floppy, then adjust the clutch inside the case, then adjust the cable." Went out and did it again just for you guys...loosened the lever until there was about 3/4" of free play, adjusted the internal adjustment to 1/4 turn out, then tightened the cable again. Still doing it. Quote: "Originally Posted by Boltrider View Post I'm assuming you have checked the primary chain for vertical play?" Yes, 1/2" when warm. | ||
| Nik |
does it change between when warmed up and when still cold? Wet clutches just tend to drag. | ||
| Zoink |
I noticed that there's less force behind it while sitting at a stoplight etc. but it still spins freely on the rearstand when warm. | ||
| Jramsey |
I don't understand the "1/2-3/4" between the grip and the lever part. I place a quarter between the lever and the perch when adjusting the cable freeplay. | ||
| Zoink |
I mean when the lever is fully pulled in there is about 1/2" to 3/4" of space between the lever and the bar between my hand. Before the when the lever was fully pulled it would make contact with the grip. | ||
| Sloppy |
What you describe sounds normal. If you had a worn clutch, the opposite would happen. When you pull the clutch lever, you are "disconnecting" the engine from the transmission by barely seperating the friction plates and discs. But the oil in the transmission will still drag between the two. Completely different to a dry clutch like what you find in car. Do you have the FSM? If not, get it and follow it. I've seen far too many errors simply because people didn't have the correct knowledge of how the bike is supposed to be adjusted. | ||
| Iamarchangel |
Manual refers to a transmission oil change and 3 adjustment points: transmission, along the cable, and at the lever. When was the oil changed last and do you know what has been in there? How much is in there? It not clear that you've made adjustments on the cable itself. | ||
| Zoink |
The oil was last changed about 1000 miles ago with motul 7100. I have made adjustments to the cable multiple times...according to the manual you're supposed to loosen it before adjusting the inner adjustment, then re-adjust it. I do have a FSM. I have one on my computer and a friend has one in print. | ||
| Iamarchangel |
Does seem early for that kind of wear but it looks like that's what you're left with. Do you have an aggressive start or wheelie stunt style? Two things are making me hesitate. One is that, years ago, we used to adjust it to useless and then back it off but I can't remember how we did that. The second is that I'm pretty sure that my clutch lever almost contacts the grip but it's pouring outside so I'm not going out to check. Anybody with a garage want to give some more input here. | ||
| Ducbsa |
My clutch was dragging with a little too much freeplay at the lever and a little low on oil. | ||
| Zoink |
I haven't ridden the bike aggressively yet..and no wheelies. I just got it this past weekend. I changed the fluid yesterday to see if maybe the type of oil has something to do with it and the oil that was in it was basically silver. So something is going on  . Going to go to my friends house monday and pull the primary cover off and look at the clutch to see what's going on. Not good :/ | ||
| Iamarchangel |
Better than finding a milkshake in there. Hopefully it's some stupid additive (which could actually lead to your problem). Maybe try using an economy oil for a couple of hours and then having a look at it. Simpler than engine work. Flush it then switch to good stuff. I'm just saying economy because I don't know what the cost would be to use HD for two changes. | ||
| Zoink |
Yeah I flushed it out with some older (but unused) oil I had sitting around, then filled it up with some mobil 1 15w-50. Going to run it for a couple of days and see what happens. | ||
| Zoink |
So I was checking my fluid again today to see if the few miles I'd put on it had change it any, it still looks pretty decent...but when I had the inspection cover off I noticed something. The flat edge of the outside race is really jagged...like something got ground off there. Is it supposed to look like this?   | ||
| Bud |
Hi Kevin, please stop worrying about your clutch. i would concider this fine, the friction from the gearbox oil can make the clutch to drag a little, this is because the oil film between the clutch plates, one plate is spinning and the next plate is still, the oil film between these can cause a little drag, if you put your foot down and have trubble holding the bike still , while in first gear / clutch engaged , than there is something not good. ( most off the times wrong oil type / clutch adjustment ) the ragged edge on the clutch meganisme is fine, this is from the fabrication proces from what i read your clutch procedure is fine, but i like to explain the 3/4 play for the lever. if you know the reson for the play on the cable, that is the best, and you know where to look for. you need to look for, when you adjust the ramp/ball, that the cable is slack | ||
| Odie |
Look here also. Hard to tell from your pics but this sounds like it may be your problem. http://www.badweatherbikers.com/buell/messages/142 838/483215.html?1249043054 | ||
| Mikef5000 |
I'm with this guy: please stop worrying about your clutch. i would concider this fine, the friction from the gearbox oil can make the clutch to drag a little, this is because the oil film between the clutch plates, one plate is spinning and the next plate is still, the oil film between these can cause a little drag, if you put your foot down and have trubble holding the bike still , while in first gear / clutch engaged , than there is something not good. If you were to lift the rear wheel of any wet clutch bike and kick it into gear, the wheel will spin even with the clutch engaged. This is NORMAL! | ||
| Zoink |
@ bud and mikef5000 - I understand how a wet clutch works. I understand it's normal for them to drag some. It's not normal for them to drag this much. I know three guys with xb's and none of their clutches drag constantly, they'll spin the back wheel slightly if rev'd up in neutral, when they're first put into gear, etc. That's normal. My japanese bikes which all had wet clutches did the same thing. It's not normal for the wheel to spin freely and constantly when put into gear. @odie - I'll check it out, thanks for the link. We checked the outside ramp on my friends bike and it looked the same so I know that's not a problem. I checked the fluid again today, it's been in there about 500 miles and is already getting gray. | ||
| Iamarchangel |
Beg to differ: it's not normal for a bike in gear to pull forward with the clutch pulled in. If you've adjusted the clutch so it doesn't happen when the bike is on the ground, good. If it's okay on the ground but still doing it on the stand, it's not quite right but there's a name for people who check their clutch while the bike is in gear on a stand: they're called "Stumpy". As long as it's not pulling you into traffic, it's good. If you're sure about your adjustments and it's still doing it on the ground, maybe the silver in your oil is the clutch fiber breaking up and you need new discs. | ||
| Dano_12s |
Kevin,that last pic doesn't look right.The notch in the cover+the square on the inner part of ramp should align together. | ||
| Dano_12s |
Also was there a spring+nut in the center of the ball ramp assy.? | ||
| Zoink |
@dano - The screw was removed for that picture so I could pull the clutch ramps out and take the picture of what I thought was abnormal wear. They're normally aligned. Yes there's a spring and nut on the outside of the assembly. | ||
| Sloppy |
What's your engine idle speed? | ||
| Odie |
I also agree the bike should not move at all when in gear with the clutch pulled in. That's exactly what mine was doing and I went through the very same steps that you did. Even put a new clutch cable on. It ended up being the primary cover. It can be hard to see the cracks but when put under pressure they appear. Other than the clutch discs being excessively worn this is the only thing I can thing of it being if all other items are good to go. | ||
| Zoink |
@Odie - checked the case, didn't see any cracks but there was some discoloration on the left side. @sloppy - ~1000 RPM Probably going to pull the clutch out and measure everything next time I have a free weekend...it doesn't really affect riding so I'm going to keep riding it until I can. I have a feeling now it just needs a new clutch..and I just don't want to have to buy a new one >.< | ||
| Odie |
How many miles on it? | ||
| Zoink |
7K on the bike | ||
| Odie |
I've got 24,000 on mine and I pulled the entire clutch out and mic'd the stack up and it was well within specs. Not exceptionally hard miles but nowhere near easy miles. It shouldn't be your clutch. The entire force of your clutch being disengaged rests on the small, aluminum lip that the pics point to. Very weak area. | ||
| Zoink |
So what should I be looking for... Which aluminum lip exactly? And if it's not the clutch what would be turning the oil grey within the 500 miles it's been in the bike. | ||
| Odie |
I would suspect water but that usually turns things milky. Look at the link I posted above. In the first pic you see the red arrows pointing at the missing lip portions. The actual remaining portion of the lip is in the 6 to 9 o'clock position. You pulling the lever, in generic terms, pulls the clutch spring away from the plates and the force of the spring is resting on the lip. It isn't a common problem but it does happen here and there. I know of 6 folks it has happened to. |
