| Author | Message | ||
     Steviejay01 |
Ok well as we all know everyone is trying to put out more BHP……..so a friend of mine who is an engineer came up with the following. We all know the 12 Airbox makes more bhp. FACT Well you also know that you need to remove the Snorkel too for more air flow FACT. The K&N makes it easier to breath too. FACT Well its all about ramming air into the engine and force feeding it so to speak. We have been working on this for nearly 6 months now and have built the first one. What it does is basically force feed the velocity stack Freezing cold air. The fan is a 9” MultiFan TurboPro (High Output Cold Air Fan) and is bolted onto our Modified xb9r Airbox, it’s a simple case of wiring the thing into the battery of the buell. The fan sits on the airbox (we screwed it down) and we have used a funnel with a large diameter to capture the air from the fan and funnel it down into the stack. There is some power loss from the engine as it has to drive the fan which delivers ICE cold air into the velocity stack, we have padded out the rest of the airbox to avoid any air escaping through the snorkel vents and surround filters, as you can imagine it’s pretty crazy. We have so far had to reset the ECU and have removed the Rev Limiter on the bike, We went up the A1M last night on it and pulled 157mph, the cold air fan is forcing more air and fuel into the bike and you could ever hope to get from normal riding. I will post a proper pic when we get it sorted out and tidy it up, at the moment it just looks a little funny. We had it on the Dyno on Wednesday and it was putting out 102 bhp at the Rear Wheel (bike has race kit too). More to follow……..  | ||
| Martin |
If the Remmurd was a reverse-engineered Drummer, is this a Naf? | ||
| Steviejay01 |
You should know mate!! lol | ||
| M1combat |
removed the rev limiter eh? I still don't see where the air comes from... Where is it filtered? It doesn't just come straight from the top of the airbox bypassing the filter does it? Maybe you could invest in a manifold air pressure sensor and let us know just how much extra pressure is generated by this fan? Of course, I would like to see it dyno'd by someone like Brian at Tilley's... | ||
| Steviejay01 |
Its not filtered........why would we want to filter it at all? The air gets blown up and spat out the exhaust anyways, I fail to see the point is cleaning it up, it just restricts the speed in which it reaches the combustion chamber. When you compress the mixture it gets up to 600 degrees celcius in a running engine thats more than enough to burn off any crap that enters. | ||
| Buellsnblondes |
"There is some power loss from the engine as it has to drive the fan which delivers ICE cold air into the velocity stack". Hmmmmmmm.... not to be critical, but just how does an electrically driven fan sap HP from the engine? Secondly, without any pressure differential information being feed to the ecm, and a device in place to alter fan speed based on engine rpm, just how is the air/fuel mixture controlled throughout the rpm range? Lastly.....me thinks... if I bypass my rev-limiter (XB9R with Buell race kit, ecm and 12R airbox) I could pull 157 indicated as well...likely corrected to about 145 true, but not really interested in affirming the laws of physics as they apply to rotational mass. Any technical data supporting this set-up would be interesting to read. Ed | ||
| Hootowl |
Pardon my dimwittedness, but is this a joke? | ||
| Hootowl |
I just want to know before I post any replies... | ||
| Roc |
1 - I'm sure going to keep my rev-limiter, this seems to be a potentailly very expensive modification. 2 - I'm going to have an air filter on my bike any time I ride it. Dust, small rocks, sand - not going to burn off and not good for engines. 3 - Electric fans don't work. This board has been through that before. 4 - Functional turbos warm the air - fact. That is why intercoolers are so popular amongst prople that run turbos. Sorry to be so negative, but it might save you some money. | ||
| Steviejay01 |
Buellsnblondes> The fan saps power because it’s like an AC unit in a car, it needs a lot or power which the bike does not have. We are working on this at the moment. The fan speed it some what primitive at the moment, we can alter the speed to which the fan rotates via a gradient switch (fitted to the fan as standard) So the faster we go, the faster our fan can go It’s amazingly simple really… edited by steviejay01 on March 12, 2004 | ||
| Spiderman |
........why would we want to filter it at all? That has to be the most irrational thought I have ever read! Tell ya what do a tear down of the top end in a few months an tell me what the valves runners an pistons look like. Not to mention if a rock gets in there LOL | ||
| S320002 |
Stevie, You might want to divide the CFM of the muffin fan by the CFM that the engine pumps at top end. I suspect you'll end up with a negative number. | ||
| Fullpower |
S3 i think you mean a fractional number, as opposed to a negative number. now my question is exactly where is that darned rev limiter that was removed from this electrically supercharged motorcycle. perhaps there are military applications for this technology. maybe a VLM boosted hi altitude jet fighter or reconaisance aircraft. or maybe a VLM ( that is a Very Large Muffin fan) boosted funny car? i can see it now the first sub 4 second quarter mile, on a fuel rail, with a 600 inch hemi engine, with a giant mother of a MUFFIN FAN on top of the regular roots type blower. this Very Large Muffin technology is the next wave in internal combustion. wish i had thought of it first... | ||
| Reepicheep |
I am with hoot (who, not coincidentally, is another electrical engineer type here). I am waiting for the punch line. Sounds like a troll to me. BTW, the Buell voltage regulator is a shunt type unit. Somebody here educated me on that way back. You generate x number of watts (and thus loose X amount of power) for a given RPM regardless of load. You either use it up on accessories, or it just heats up your primary and voltage regulator. (DOH! I took the bait ) | ||
| Fullpower |
stevie would you like to hire me to do some arcticcold weather testing of your Very Large Muffin technology? I have some shop space available, and a few vehicles on which to run on and off road tests. my son races motocross, and would love to have the only supercharged dirt bike on the track. i dont think there is a word in the rules prohibiting manifold pressure. i think we can work out some relaxation of import duties, etc if the Very Large Muffins are research and development prototypes. regards, dean | ||
| Fullpower |
hey lets go the next step, run a big suction fume extractor fan on the exhaust pipe. sort of a post-turbo. with negative exhaust pressure, the valves would run cooler, the muffler could be made much more compact, and also lighter in weight. Post Turbo Exhaust System Technology. i call it P-TEST for short. dean | ||
| Fullpower |
with my new P-TEST system, you dont even have to remove the rev limiter. the P-TEST sucks so hard, that the engine will continue to rev even after the stock ecm has cut the spark. we had to roll off the throttle at 8500 rpm, it was still accelerating, but the test engineers were worried about the lower end letting go. will post some pics as soon as the patent documents are filed. dean- P-TEST industries,LLC | ||
| Road_thing |
"Very Large Muffin" conjures up an image that belongs in the Adult section... | ||
| Buellsnblondes |
....ahhhhhhhh...but an A/C unit on a car is driven by belt and pulley from the crank of the engine, thus sapping power when the compressor kicks on. Electrical accessories such as blower fans, radios, etc. are driven by a generator or alternator which is driven by belt and pulley or direct drive via reduction/overdrive gearing, and generates a given amount of power at a given rpm, regardless of electrical power demands, which in turn is regulated to recharge the battery and run the accessory package. With that said, the fan you've added shouldn't create or draw anymore hp from the engine then the generator already does...Reepicheep has pretty much nailed it. Good luck with your project...I strongly recommend reestablishing your rev-limter before this exercise becomes really expensive! Ed | ||
| Hootowl |
Generating mental picture. Deleting mental picture. Emptying recycle bin. | ||
| Hootowl |
Reep, does that mean that the stator is pumping out max current all the time? Use it or lose it? Seems like a bad way to engineer something to me. That just seems wrong. I am NOT saying you're wrong, just that it is an incredibly inefficient way to do it. I need to look at the schematics to get a better picture. Does the service manual go into the regulator or just block diagram it? | ||
| Buellsnblondes |
Hey Hoot- Over simplified- the starter motor is battery driven, switch activated through the starter solenoid. Not directly powered by the generator. Hope that helps. Ed | ||
| Buellsnblondes |
Yikes....old age here...can't read...the "Stator", not the starter! Current consistent with rpm, regulated to recharge battery/run accessories... not an overabundance of power, but yes, essentially a "use or lose" proposition. ED | ||
| Reepicheep |
Hoot... your comments mirror mine almost verbatim when somebody else showed me the schematic. I thought it was nuts. Their "regulator" is just a few SCRs. When they reach a threshold voltage, effectively shorts out the stator and throws away the rest of the juice. The relatively high internal resistance of the stator keeps things from catching on fire. Aaron even threw the thing on a Dyno with and without the regulator installed, but could not find a difference. You can get aftermarket non-shunt regulators. They might be more durable. | ||
| Fullpower |
the Post Turb Exhaust System Tecnology fan is driven by an integral coaxial 3 phase AC induction motor, wired directly to the oem Buell 3 phase stator. in this way its speed and "suction" is proportional to engine rpm, it does not put any load across the voltage regulator. as noted earlier the voltage regulator is a total loss shunt type regulator. so the Post-Turbo Exhaust System Technology (P-TEST) uses "free" energy which would otherwise be wasted in the voltage regulator. the latest version of the P-TEST is completely enclosed in the stock muffler can. the integral 3 phase AC motor is mounted coaxially inside the exhaust fan rotor. it looks completely stock. if we left the embossed brass P-TEST logo off the system, you could not tell it was installed, untill you went for a ride. | ||
| Sarodude |
Muffin Fans? Look, I know this has nothing to do with Buells (or bikes) but I just realized why the muffins we've been baking have been so dense. I needed to use a muffin fan to inflate the damned things. Anyway, to get back on topic here, I think a Remmurd for a Blast would be great. That along with some Nillan headwork, Ecrof intake & exhaust, and maybe some Elgae Nimaercs cams. Hope you guys are also planning a muffler bearing. I need to replace mine badly and would like an improvement over the factory unit. -Saro | ||
| Blake |
StevieJay, The so called "engineer" that put that piece of silliness together... what's his name and in what field is his degree? I'm guessing electrical engineering. The air gets chilled to "ice cold"?? BAHAHAHAHAHAH!!! You "removed the rev limiter" BAHAHAHAHAH! You don't see any need to filter the intake air? BAHAHAHAHAHAH! "We have so far had to reset the ECU and have removed the Rev Limiter on the bike, We went up the A1M last night on it and pulled 157mph..." BAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH!!!!! STOP! You're killing me. I've not heard anything so idiotic or inane for a long time. Of course I'd be happy to have you prove me wrong. BAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH!!! | ||
| Blake |
8700 rpm. BAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH | ||
| Reepicheep |
Hey now... lets not go cutting on the electrical engineer types...  (and it probably is ice cold. It's sure as hell not compressed ) | ||
| M1combat |
No, I think he's right... I can tell through my posterior denim dyno that when I turn on my radio in my car I certainly feel a loss of at least 1/100th of an HP. RWHP for you non techies out there... I almost smacked my co-driver for rolling down my power window during a grueling eight hour endurance type drag race. She was way behind the curve anyway as she never told me when to turn. I think the exhaust extraction fan would make up the difference though... Anyway... Either you HAVE a filter or you ARE a filter. BTW - This was taken from your profile... Factory Race Kit K&N Filter 12R Airbox Cover ECM Exhaust Smaller Ilegal Plate. Impressive... Are you sure that K&N thing isn't more of a "soft" velocity stack with your current setup? Also, I wish I could get one of those exhaust thingies for my XB12R, they must only be for the XB9-R... Oh, and where can I get one of those new fangled little ilegal plates? DMV maybe? |
