| Author | Message | ||
     Nevco1 |
Can someone tell me why it is "Harley Davidson Motor Company" when they only make Engines? Hmmm...wonder if a stupid question like this will take the heat off this redundant topic | ||
| Metalstorm |
Oil's well that ends well sorry, i had to say it  | ||
| Opto |
Can't hardly read the screen for all the smoke...have all the big guys put down their guns yet? | ||
| Opto |
There is a lot of good info in there, in one big shootout, thanks all! | ||
| Dynarider |
To be clear, you should add that the oil meets the OEM recommended SAE viscosity grade and service type. Bigbird is right, according to your definition you could use a W10 weight oil in the middle of Summer. I understand that, but BB just wanted to argue semantics. I didnt feel it was required to state exactly that the oils had to be of similar grades & properties. I "assumed" & therefore fucked up, that everyone understood that to use oils of weights & grades that arent compatible with the motor is a no no. Bill, everyone...well maybe not everyone  calls it a motor. To argue that small point is nit picking. | ||
| Reepicheep |
Also, if you claim to have a bunch of experience on buells or hopped up sportsters and have never seen a "oil pump failure" (which is probably actually an oil pump drive gear failure) then... well, you don't have a bunch of experience on buells and hopped up sportsters. Look here: http://www.badweatherbikers.com/buell/messages/3842/19693.html http://www.badweatherbikers.com/buell/messages/3842/16313.html I could go on... That first link is my gear. And I don't appreciate you implying that the condition it was in is a result of me not able to keep good oil in my engine. | ||
| Hootowl |
Nothing wrong with a little levity. You guys were bludgeoning each other. | ||
| Mikej |
So, Cowtown/Paul, I hear you just bought a new bike.  Congratulations. | ||
| Brucelee |
Mobil One is factory fill in most high performance autos, including Corvette, BMW, Porsche etc. Moreover, in the 911 and Boxster, these engines runs 15K miles before the oil is replaced. Try this with HD Syn 3 anyone? Not in my 911! I use Mobil One 15-50 in my XB9 and have since 1000 miles. Runs like a bloody top and OBVIOUSLY runs much cooler as my fan started running much less, immediately. Moreover, have to disagree with the statement made above about not changing oil before the 1000 mark. I did an oil change at 300 miles and got TONS of metal shavings in the waste oil. Fewer at 1000 miles and virtually NONE at 3000 miles (when I drained the Mobil One.). BTW-if I recall correctly, HD does not put the standard API ratings on their own oils and do not specifically use them in the manuals for recommendations. Kind of makes it hard to figure out just what the hell kind of oil you would use other than their own. In this area, Harley is so full of shit! | ||
| Cowtown |
Good grief, what have I started? I’ve been reading this board long enough that I should have expected this. Could we have the same lively discussion on the resale value of my X1? Dean, I bought the bike from Bridgeport H-D in Stratford, CT. I’m paying $650 to have it delivered to Fort Worth. This bike was one of those $7,300 ebay offers that I read about on this board Friday morning. I wish I could keep the X1, but it’s going to help pay for the new bike. Gregg, the only reason I bought this bike was I couldn’t pass up the price. I attend to keep it for a long time, but that’s what I thought about the X1. | ||
| Mikej |
Cowtown, Resale on your X1 will be dependant on several factors: Local market conditions, Local market perceptions of Buells, Condition, Net/Price awareness of the buying public in your local market, Your willingness to get creative, Current regional market perceptions, Current regional market price points, Current E-Bay price points, Current dealership purge price points, and the list goes on. Some owners have resorted to parting out their bikes since they could get more money for less mental hassle than by trying to sell the complete bike. Some parts will sell faster (like the wheels and forks), some parts will take longer (like the engine), and some parts will take even longer (like the frame and some of the stock body parts). There is no absolute sales price point on Buells. Some owners are giving their's away at $3000 or less. Others are holding fast to their own price points out of sheer stubbornness. For a fast sale put it up at $3500, or part it out for a fairly quick $3000 for the big or in-demand parts. After those price points add plenty of time and patience, the higher above those price points and the more time and patience you'll need. Some owners do well at $4000, a few do well at $4500, those getting $5000 or more either have found a willing buyer or are hitting a good timeframe or have found a good combination of local market vs bike customization with what they've done to their bikes. With my M2 and/or S2, I'm in the stubborn category and am holding firm to a price point. Below that and I'll part them out and put the leftover spares towards a project. Otherwise I'll try and find an acceptable trade-in or horse-trade deal. I plan to keep one of my Buells, unless I become disgruntled and turn them into custom hardtail hackjobs. But as always, and as shown clearly by the oiled tangent of this discussion, YMMV. And with that said I was just the other day reading on a bicycle racing site about tire sizes and contact patch profiles. Funny how they don't discuss oil much, beyond chain lubes, and their chain lube discussions often rival the oil thread above. Play nice, have fun, and stay between the ditches with the rubber side where it's supposed to be (which is sometimes airborn, as you'll soon discover with your XB). Have a very nice day. In the mean time I'm going back to staring at my blank dead disabled work screen and drink some coffee and read a magazine until IT either gets it fixed or until I can go home. (yaaahoooo) | ||
| Mikej |
ps, Buell and Harley-D discontinuing parts and accessories for the tube frame models does not in any way help our situation at all, not in the least little bit does it help any of us. Loyalty begats loyalty, but live life on your own terms regardless. | ||
| Blake |
Unfortunately my aggressive debating manner and possibly the tone of Dyna's post became unpalatable to Bigbird. Our bad. He is a great Buell enthusiast and it's a shame to scare him off like that over ego issues. He did send me a nice email saying that on one point, I misunderstood him. He said that BMW does indeed warn against using synthetic oil prior to 6,000 miles. So, it looks like I may be eating crow for lunch, and dinner, and...  I've done it before. Mike, Good post (the first one 2day). I have a hard time reconciling the parting out of a good or near working motorcycle. The effort of having to disassemble, deal with each of the individual parts' sales, the inevitable gaggle of questions, the packing and shipping of all the stuff is certainly a huge deterrent for me. That and I just hate to see an old Buell go the way of the boneyard. I may have to find me a nice original S1 and maybe S2 some day. Cowtown, A simple way to find what your X1 might be worth is to use the advanced search features at ebay. There is one option called "Item Status" that lets you display only the results of auctions that have concluded. Also, be sure to click the "search titles and descriptions" option. Looking at the pricing of active auctions is not very helpful, since the final price usually gets bid up at the very end. From what I see, an X1 in good shape might fetch $5,900 if you are patient or around $5K if you put it on ebay and let her go right away. Prices always increase as the riding season comes upon us. I tell you what, in my experience, a LOT of the success of an online ad depends on the presentation. Classy detailed pictures, a full positive upbeat description (throw in some adjectives and enthusiasm for the bike), describe all the options and interesting features of the bike (maintenance free valvetrain, belt drive, great gas mileage...) and a valid reason for selling. As an example, check out the ebaymotors ad I put together for my Dad's 50K mile '84 Gold Wing. It sold in two days during mid-Winter for a Buy-it-now price that was $5 dollars less than what he paid for the bike five years and 20K miles ago. Some ads I see are really lame. Inspiring confidence in the buyer that what you are offering is a good and honest deal is the purpose of your ad. Including yourself in the backround of on of your photos of the bike is a good way to help potential buyers gain familiarity and trust. And on the subject of photos. Take your time, consider the framing and background, idealy you want an inviting background, somewhere out on a twisty road amonst the scenery. Use photos that highlight the unique and desirable features of the machine. And of course we all know... sex sells. Got a bikini? LOL! Lastly, you MUST think like a salesman. You are NOT counciling your best friend on the purchase, you are trying to SELL the bike. Do NOT list every minute little cosmetic defect. Be honest, but use more general terms like "normal wear" and such. You don't want to misrepresent the bike, but you don't want to point out negatives if you don't have to. Think like a salesman! Good luck! Blake | ||
| Peter |
shagadonkey..........??????? | ||
| Blake |
Yeah I know, a really gay sounding name. I should probably reregister under another name. | ||
| Dynarider |
BB, heres a letter from the FTC, read it & tell me HD will say something differently. UNITED STATES OF AMERICA FEDERAL TRADE COMMISSION WASHINGTON, D.C. 20580 December 31, 2002 Keith E. Whann, Esq., Whann & Associates Representing the National Independent Automobile Dealers Association 6300 Frantz Road Dublin, Ohio 43017 Dear Mr. Whann: The Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act is the federal act governing written warranties on consumer products.(4) Among other things, the Act contains provisions that protect consumers from deceptive or unfair warranty practices. One of these provisions is Section 102(c), which prohibits warrantors from conditioning warranty coverage on the consumer's "using, in connection with the warranted product," an article or service identified by brand, trade, or corporate name, unless the warrantor provides the article or service without charge.(5) This provision prevents warrantors from imposing tying arrangements that restrict consumers' purchase options with respect to articles or services used in connection with the warranted product. In the Commission's view, performing the very service promised under the warranty is not "using" a service "in connection with" the warranted product. The legislative history for this provision, though scanty, mentions specific types of tying arrangements that would be prohibited: "Under this prohibition, for example, no automobile manufacturer may condition his warranty of an automobile on the use of a named motor oil or on the use of its own automobile parts unless he shows that any other motor oil or automobile parts which are available will not function properly and will not give equivalent performance characteristics in the automobile."(6) The Commission provided additional guidance in its 1977 Interpretations of the Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act, 16 C.F.R. Part 700.(7) Section 700.10(b) clarified that, when a limited warranty covers only replacement of parts but the consumer pays the labor charges, Section 102(c) would prohibit the warrantor from requiring that the consumer use only specified service or labor to install those parts. Conversely, the Commission explained, under a limited warranty that covers labor charges only, Section 102(c) prohibits a condition that the consumer use only a brand of parts identified by the warrantor or that the parts be purchased from a particular seller. | ||
| Dynarider |
Also, why are all BMW car models filled from the factory with synthetic? http://www.sts.sae.org/membersonly/techinfo/servicetech/tech-tidbits-03.pdf | ||
| Dynarider |
Oh looky here what Mitsubishi has to say regarding their Lancer? Pay attention to the last sentence. Evolution VIII is powered by Mitsubishi’s 4G63-type 2.0-liter in-line 4-cylinder DOHC intercooler-turbocharged engine which conforms to Californian LEV1-LEV emis-sion regulations and has been specially tuned for gasoline octane numbers used in the U.S. To meet the higher driving speeds common in the United States, the engine uses high performance synthetic oil instead of petroleum oil. | ||
| Dbird29 |
Way to go guys! Ran another one off! You have to be right at all costs. I thought Bigbird's posts were ok and find it amazing you can't take what you read with a "grain of salt". My 2 cents.  DBird (no relation to Bigbird) | ||
| Jasonblue |
Dyna, You can be a real dork. | ||
| Dynarider |
I think I will take that as a compliment  BTW if thats all it took to run off Bigbird, could you imagine how easy Bert & Ernie would be? | ||
| Bads1 |
So what your say'n Dyna is you like to argue with fictional TV charcters.LOL | ||
| Wyckedflesh |
I am sorry but though I wanted to pick this arguement with Dyna once before, I stepped back when I myself found the articles I had read to not be available online. Blake did as BB asked and though Blake ate crow over the matter even what BB stated was not what Blake found out to be true. Basically BB kept debating the subject even though he couldn't answer Blakes questions then he attacked Dyna saying he didn't follow proper procedure when Dyna has the documentation to back up that he did, but BB didn't leave room for error, oh no BB BLAMED DYNA'S PROBLEMS DIRECTLY ON DYNA'S MAINTENANCE. Yet this is the same "Service Manager for a HD/Buell dealership" that has not seen problems with sportster oil pumps nor did he have an idea of the rideability difference between an XB9 and an XB12...In other words what he was spouting was not meshing with what he was claiming. BTW according to Sport Compact Car with WRT their build up of a Mazda Rotary...Mazda itself claimed that Synthetic motoroils should not be used in their rotary engines. Dino or Synthetic motor oils? That's the big question. While Mazda Corp. has officially forbid the use of synthetic motor oils in their rotary engines, Mostly Mazda* strongly recommends the use of Redline synthetics products, in the motor, differential and in the transmission. The unofficial "inside story" behind Mazda's statement is quite interesting. Apparently, in the early 1980s, Mazda's racing team had lubrication problems using a certain brand name synthetic motor oil. Instead of disclosing the particular oil brand and potentially getting faced with a lawsuit, Mazda made an unfair general statement, suggesting that all synthetic oils were incompatible with their rotary engines. http://www.sportcompactcarweb.com/projectcars/9901scc_projrx7/index.html (approximately half way down under the heading regarding oil) *Mostly Mazda is an independant after market company specializing in Mazda's for those that are unsure of the wording edited by wyckedflesh on March 02, 2004 | ||
| Dynarider |
Zactly. Now to be fair I too have read as well as heard where BMW motorcycles should be broken in with conventional oils. Its not that synthetics will cause any problems, supposedly they will just delay the full break in. BMW does state after 6000 miles they are fine to use. What I found interesting is that BMW doesnt recommend SJ oils for their bikes & they list the anti-wear additives in synthetic as the cause for delaying the break in. The question in my mind is why would or supposedly does a BMW motorcycle take 6000 miles to break in & fully seat the rings? BTW, BMW motorcycle division is the only manufacturer I have even read about that "suggests" avoiding it for break in. They dont forbid it however. | ||
| Buckinfubba |
I just work up a bunch of good lugey's and fill'er up with mucus and it seems to work great. has alot less drag than oil and its good for the enviroment because it is natural  | ||
| Brucelee |
I simply walked around this issue. Used HD Dino oil for the first 1000 miles (changed it at 300 miles). Then went to Mobil One in both engine and trans. BTW-Next change I am going to Castrol 10-60W oil, which I get at dealer cost at my local BMW shop. Looks better to me for summer riding (gets hot in the SO CAL desert!). | ||
| Blake |
Please show me where in the BMW owner's manual or in a Mazda owner's manual where the use of synthetic oil is prohibited during break-in. It's all hearsay, especially that excerpt the Wycked posted above. Bigbird and I have continued to correspond cordially via email. He's set in his thinking. Fine with me. And if he says that he's never seen oil related engine problems or an oil pump failure I certainly believe him. Of course some would take a statement to that effect and let their brain translate it into something like "there are never any problems with Buell engines or their oil pumps." Of course that would be ridiculous. And on the subject of HD versus other brand oil usage... Certainly we shouldn't expect an employee of a business concern that makes money selling the HD stuff to say anything different than the standard company line. Personally, I may start using the HD Synthetic. It costs the same as Mobil-1 V-Twin and helps smooth relations with my local dealer. There are a BUNCH of good people earning a living there, and stopping in once and a while, so they don't forget me can make a difference when I need their help and some special consideration. Right Daves and Buckin? ![: ]](http://www.badweatherbikers.com/buell/clipart/proud.gif) | ||
| Bads1 |
Just made a call to my brother he owns 2 BMW's a 740IL and one of those SUV's and I asked him since he bought them both new.If he knew what kind of oil is in them and he told me they both came with synthetic in them.  | ||
| Wyckedflesh |
WHAT! you doubt the creditable source knows as SPORT COMPACT CAR! How dare you...you fiend...you hooligan...oh shit I can't type anymore laughing too much | ||
| Dynarider |
Dana, I already reported that BMW ships their cars filled with synthetic oil. And not 1 manufacturer is going to go on record & flat out state that if you use synthetic then your warranty is void. They dont have the proof to back them up. |
