| Author | Message | ||
     Xl_cheese |
Music stolen vs ECM paid for doesn't sound like apples to apples. If I rightfully purchase music from the store I would think that I could go home and put that music on my computer. And if I felt the need to make that music 'sound' better I can legally mix it up for my listening pleasure. | ||
| Court |
>>>I can legally mix it up for my listening pleasure. Correct. You can screw around with the tone controls on the equipment you use to reproduce the sound, you may not mess with the 1's and 0's on the CD. And it is not "apples to apples" . . . think of this as an Amicus curiae Buellius. | ||
| Reepicheep |
Anybody who claims to understand the in's and out's of intellectual property laws, fair use rights, and how they intersect with electronic systems with regards to things like the DCMA, clearly does not know much about the field. The more you know about it, the less clear it gets. Under one reading of the DCMA (I am not a lawyer), I could, according to the law, wrap a piece of tin foil around the ECM with "do not tamper" written on it in black sharpie... and if you tear the foil to change it, you violated the law. (I didn't say it wasn't stupid, I said it is the law... maybe, depending on your judge and jury and lawyers and phase of the moon). I wouldn't be hosting that software or those files on any system I control... thats-for-darn-sure... | ||
| Aptbldr |
I leave those tags on my pillows, too. Why are 'maps' different than jet sizes from back in the day? Were folks raising intellectual property concerns back when FI was carbs and maps were jets & needles? | ||
| Djz |
Hello mike how can i buy a cable from you . i do not no what went on before i am new . but i would like to buy cable ulysses thank you | ||
| Oxygen151 |
xopti, are you still going make maps for people or your done with that too? | ||
| Fastxb12r |
Nobody else will say it so I will .......... "Gunter your a real douche canoe for taking the download off if you where done spending time on it is one thing but to take away whats already out there is D1c&i$h"  OH im shure  "SOMEONE" out there will make a download spot for the FTDI_Drivers,BuellTuningGuide_EN_V1.6,CDM,EcmSpySe tup.231150718...... Maybe even...ECMSpy maps....XB12 Maps 04-07 stock & race,XB9 03-07 stock & race,X1 S3 Map,Even the uly race map.....I wonder who could get those HMMMMMM....  | ||
| Xoptimizedrsx |
ok bed time. did some home work. did some net playing. called my brother. ect ect. found something called bit torrents. where you can get ecmspy still. its out there guess people have been uploading the files for a while. there is one posted on monday am but its only sunday. not sure how that worked out but it went up tomorrow but its today. confusing the time zones are. i dont know the rar and torrent way to do those so i cant help. but the file size i saw was all in sync to be legit. well its alive so guess some people will keep it going in the pirate areas in those download sites where people upload things and ect. search buell, ecmspy, buell tuning, ect you will find it. some are a couple months old to some in the future to my time zone. guess its alive and well. you just have to dig to get it. mike (Message edited by xoptimizedrsx on June 21, 2009) | ||
| Mr2shim |
Cliff notes? | ||
| Ft_bstrd |
"Gunter your a real douche canoe for taking the download off if you where done spending time on it is one thing but to take away whats already out there is D1c&i$h" Are you kidding me? | ||
| Froggy |
I think he was joking around, but still, that was a douchey comment. | ||
| Xben12 |
wonder if drummer & special o.p.s will get into trouble for modifying stock exhausts and profiting from it, F@ K all the do gooders! (Message edited by XBen12 on June 22, 2009) | ||
| Slaughter |
So Ben - when you're not using your wife or girlfriend, how about us having a shot at her? | ||
| Froggy |
Xben12, they could get into some legal trouble in the future. I really doubt anything will happen to them for a while, as the big names like Jardine would get attacked first. Just look what happened to Power Commander. | ||
| Court |
>>>as the big names like Jardine would get attacked first. Not necessarily. Intellectual property laws are funny and demand a uniform enforcement effort. You have to go after the little mom and pop shops with equal fervor. If you had to choose to take on an adversary would you choose Jardine, with a large legal staff and budget, or would you publicly pommel a small outfit, seize their assets and make an example? I've no opinion. I'd evaluate my strategy on a case by case basis. I do recall the some of the major ones like when a firm tried to start a company called "Buell Motorcycle Ltd". There have been some classics. | ||
| Froggy |
Court, I agree, but KDfap/Special ops would be going against the EPA, not a private company. | ||
| Firebolt32 |
To get the torrent your speaking of, there is a way I grab them for music and such. Basically file sharing. First you need http://bitlord.com/download.php. This is needed to download the torrent. Here is a link for the torrent...http://www.fulldls.com/torrent-app-1790639.html. This will get you ECMspy exe file. It will download through bitlord. (Message edited by firebolt32 on June 22, 2009) | ||
| Didactic |
It's this stuff that is pushing me away from Buells...too few people working together and to many griping and rabble-rousing. Seriously, anyone notice the lack of a chorus to start a new project, with everyone chiming in that they will help? HD treating Buellers like crud and the dealership breaking my bike doesn't hurt. Personally my time is limited and my tolerance for BS is lower and lower these days, and even decent folks like Dark Horse Moto and American Sport Bike can't balance the experience of dealing with a group of people who seem to think rowing in your own direction will get the ship somewhere...just means your a selfish d!ck who should get his own dingy. In theory I love Buell but in practice it's just getting lame. Too bad too, since it's not for lack of a decent product. | ||
| Dbird29 |
None of this is Buell's doing, you buy their product at an authorized dealer. My understanding of open licensing is that open source is always in a state of change and whoever issued the original open license can rescind it if there are violations. Froggy or Fat Bastard could address that. | ||
| Froggy |
Right. So if you were one of the 90% or so of Buell owners that don't even know what Badweb is, you would be none the wiser about ECMspy or anything else related to it. If you can't handle some bickering based on rumors and false accusations, then go elsewhere. Dbird, I am not an expert on open source, but I believe you are correct. | ||
| Iamarchangel |
Were folks raising intellectual property concerns back when FI was carbs and maps were jets & needles? You're missing the basic concept here. Carbs, jets and needles are physical properties. You know when they are stolen because somebody else has yours without permission. Once you bought them, you physically had something in your hand. Even if you modified them, by drilling, filing, machining you still had bought the original piece. The manufacturer made money. Now here's the challenge. Technically those mods were violating intellectual property, but the cash flow to the company wasn't drastically being interrupted. Now, if you tried to sell your Keihin or Mikuni mod, you would meet some lawyers. That would interfere. And, yes, start up companies were blocked by the majors. The problem with computer stuff is that there is nothing in your hand. It is too easy to interrupt the cash flow to the manufacturer/designer. New tech always generates new laws. | ||
| Didactic |
Thanks for illustrating my point Froggy. I think you misunderstand, I'm not suggesting you all should change the way you do things or anything of the kind. I'm pointing out that it's the way things are done, in general, with all things Buell that is wearing my last nerve. The ECMspy issue and the Badweb response is just the issue of the day that illustrates my point. Oh, and so as not to be a hypocrite, here is what I know about the license issue (have some experience with the issue). An open source license is not a set thing...it depends on which one it is and the specifics of that license. The one constant with open source licenses (for the most part) is that the original developer retains the right to stipulate how the software can be use (may not be resold, rebranded, etc). However, once released (like say under a GNU GPL)it is released and available for anyone to use/modify/etc as long as they follow the license that was attached to the software at it's release...this is why releases may have different license restrictions. So whatever the license says on your copy is the beginning and the end of the rules you have to follow regarding that piece of software. License = contract between you and developer If the license of ECMspy does not say you have to stop using it at developers request then you can keep using the program (which it can't really say anyways, legally, unless there is a provision made to set a contact method, email/phone#/etc, at the initiation of the contract). If the license doesn't say anything about charging for your expertise in the program to mod someone else's Buell, then you can do that to. | ||
| Rhun |
Iomarc... either I got lost or don't agree with your carb analogy. Back in the 70 Harley factory race tuner Jim Warnier gave me info like what jets and slide to start with and what size of Mukuni for my flat tracker. I passed on his info to others, also. I guess technically it was Harley's intellectual property. Jim was happy he didn't have to tell several people the same thing. If I had a bag of jets it was meaningless until I figured out how to use them. Same with a map. The guy that first put a bearing inside of a wheel didn't get sued for stealing the wheels inventors property, because he changed it and improved it. Granted some patent attorney could disagree. But they will always disagree, that is how they eat. Starting in 2008 Buell's ECU does not have good optimum information in it. Many bikes don't run well. Blame it on regulators, blame it on Buell's apathy, blame it on some part that is defective. The reality, I paid for the ECU and can do nothing with it. AND I paid for a bike that runs poorly. If it is because of intellectual property, I'd like suggest it is unintellectually applied.  | ||
| Boltrider |
^ Not true. My 2008 Bolt runs strong anywhere in the rev range. So strong in fact that I don't plan on touching the ECM. There are some problem bikes out there, but there are also some very good ones. I agree it would be nice as a play toy to mess around with the computer, but these aren't exactly the good old days anymore. What's really sad is when aftermarket mufflers go the way of the dinosaur. (Message edited by boltrider on June 22, 2009) | ||
| Iamarchangel |
Ha, intellectual property doesn't mean it's necessarily a brilliant idea property, it just means somebody owns the idea. You come up with an idea, I can't take it from you if you've registered it. The guy who copied the wheel did it before lawyers were invented. Don't forget, while you might agree with the copier, it moves into the same concept of property laws that protects your house and bike. It's protecting the originator's bread and butter. There was an expectation, back then, that you would experiment with jetting. However, how honest would you be if you never acknowledged Jim's help? Not really a business problem until people start coming to you instead of Jim. Now you and him could work out a deal (license) and everybody would be happy but that's how it works. You brought up Consumer Law, that protects you in a buying relationship. Don't confuse the two. Having a bike that doesn't run right doesn't give you permission to steal parts from the store, no matter how good it makes you feel. It's mechanics, one thing at a time. First that law, then this one. |
