| Author | Message | ||
     Brucelee |
Lets see, Honda was just FORCED to recall 7000 Gold Wings because the frame MIGHT LET LOOSE. So, obviously, Honda is out as the bike for Mr. Perfect! Geez!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! | ||
| Henrik |
Oh, oh, oh ... I've got a good one too  Safety Alerts January 23 2004 BMW Has Recalled the R and K series Motorcycles (Safety Alerts) - The U.S. Department of Transportation's National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA) announced. Make : BMW Model : K SERIES Year : 2001 Make : BMW Model : K SERIES Year : 2002 Make : BMW Model : K SERIES Year : 2003 Make : BMW Model : K SERIES Year : 2004 Make : BMW Model : R SERIES Year : 2000 Make : BMW Model : R SERIES Year : 2001 Make : BMW Model : R SERIES Year : 2002 Make : BMW Model : R SERIES Year : 2004 NHTSA CAMPAIGN ID Number : 04V028000 Recall Date: JAN 15, 2004 Component: FUEL SYSTEM, GASOLINE DELIVERY HOSES, LINES/PIPING, AND FITTINGS Potential Number Of Units Affected : 39000 Summary: ON CERTAIN MOTORCYCLES, THE O-RING CONTAINED WITHIN THE FUEL LINE QUICK-DISCONNECT COUPLING COULD BECOME DAMAGED. THERE IS ALSO A PROBLEM INVOLVING CRIMP-TYPE HOSE CLAMPS, WHICH CAN RESULT IN A SMALL FUEL LEAK. Consequence: FUEL LEAKAGE IN THE PRESENCE OF AN IGNITION SOURCE COULD RESULT IN A FIRE. | ||
| Buckinfubba |
damn it henrik I thought beemers were the bestest now you go and show me they are machines like everything else....damn it all | ||
| Brucelee |
Honda and BMW!!!!!!!!!!!!! There IS no God!!! So much for the poor Dodge truck. | ||
| Clydeglide |
Lets see, Honda was just FORCED to recall 7000 Gold Wings because the frame MIGHT LET LOOSE. It's worse than a frame cracking. Honda has sent what is probably the most comprehensive and detailed guide to their dealers to do the repair. They want the dealers to send the frames and the repair instructions to a local welding shop and do a repair. This would not be a problem if I knew that the person doing the work studied the guide, plus understood and followed directions. WTF is Honda thinking. They need to replace those frames without question. The good news is not all of the recalled bikes have the problem. They need to be inspected first. I think I would want to SEE what they found if I was told my bike wasn't affected. And don't think Harley hasn't replaced a few cracked frames. They just replaced it when there was little doubt as to the failure. It was just never a consistent problem nor did it affect a given build period that I am aware of.  edited by Clydeglide on January 31, 2004 | ||
| Henrik |
Bubba; Ooooh, if you think that's interesting - then how about the R1100ST that would burst into flames if it sat and idled for too long  Or the throttle bodies on some of the oil-heads that would blow out of their fitting if the bike backfired - of course spewing gas all over in the process. Or the Hayabusa where the drive chain would over-stretch within a few hundred miles and tear out the cam case in the process. Or the fact that the "little" Honda Goldwing overheating issues requires a full top end tear down, cc-ing the heads, drilling up some oil or coolant passages etc. etc. And the funny thing is, that most of the major manufacturers are camouflaging these "little issues" as service items, trying to keep it quiet and just take care of the customers who complain the loudest. Very few (none - really) of them step up, like Buell did, and tell their customer base: "there is a problem - not bad, and we have a solution, but well take care you 'cause we want you to be both safe and happy." Henrik | ||
| Court |
>>>Very few (none - really) of them step up, like Buell did, and tell their customer base: "there is a problem - not bad, and we have a solution, but well take care you 'cause we want you to be both safe and happy." Truth on the internet?...go figure! If you knew some of the folks who sit on the Buell Safety Committee that make the "recall/ no-racall? call, you'd understand. Woe be unto the person who tries to fly moto-engineering BS by DU. I like my Buell for a myriad of reasons....having ridden it in 44 states and circling the United States over 31 consecutive days, reliability is but one of those reasons. Court | ||
| Buckinfubba |
truth on the internet.... yeah pretty cool huh! | ||
| Rocketman |
There is a questionable reason for many of todays recalls or service issues where for example the major manufacturers are concerned. This applies particularly to the Japanese Big Four. The Japanese build an incredible amount of motorcycles per year most of which are new or updated significantly on the previous year models. Customer demand is such that a minimal amount of time is available to test each and every model produced and it is a well known fact for this reason that recalls and service warranty type work has become a necessity given the status quo in motorcycle production. How a manufacturer deals with issues that may necessitate a recall or warranty work is another matter. What is worth thinking about is when you have a manufacturer like Buell who produce not as many motorcycles as any of the Japanese companies do nor do they change their model variety anywhere near the pace of what a Japanese motorcycle manufacturer does then you can't compare the number of recall or warranty issues that building motorcycles might bring. Buell build great bikes, no question, but their production numbers and model variety \ change should support a more reliable than some others motorcycles in any case. One could therefore wonder why a Buell could have a warranty or recall issue given their production targets compared against say Honda or Suzuki or others much larger than Buell . I like Buells for a myriad of reasons....having ridden them in 7 countries over 7 years, including the United States, reliability I've come to learn is not the premise of Buell but more of the owner. The same may also apply to Honda Suzuki or BMW but in all cases warranty issues are not about to go away given customer demands on production so it's worth remembering that in some cases warranty issues may well be the saving grace if you've bought a non-Buell motorcycle that has 'issues'. If you bought a Buell I don't know what you should expect given the statements made by some here but me personally I'd be well pissed off if those statements proved just a little over zealous. Rocket | ||
| Clydeglide |
If you bought a Buell I don't know what you should expect given the statements made by some here but me personally I'd be well pissed off if those statements proved just a little over zealous. Well put and well placed Rocket.  | ||
| Henrik |
Rocket; don't know if your last comment was aimed at my post, but let me clarify anyway; The tubers had a slew of issues - some of which could be a safety hazard. Rather than letting owners drift in when something went bad, Buell (HD really, I guess) set aside a hefty chunk of $$ and replaced a bunch of stuff on what, 4 model years of bikes? I think that was pretty brave - PR wise Buell still suffers from that. In comparison, BMW have had surging issues on the majority of their bikes for quite a few years, and plain refuses to even acknowledge that fact. Not knocking manufacturers in general. Rocket has a good point in the time frame new products need to be brought to market. And you're right about production numbers as well - of course, higher production often indicates more $$ earned as well - i.e. there may be more room in the budget for recalls etc.? Just pointing out that Buell did something good back then and most other manufacturers still choose to sweep their issues under the rug. Henrik | ||
| Aydenxb9 |
The Japanese manufacturers update and come out with new and improved models every year? Really? That's why my wife's 1993 Honda Shadow is exactly the same bike and a new one save for the rear fender? Or that my best friend's 1996 Honda Night Hawk 750 is identical to a 2004? Or that another good friend's 1987 Suzuki Intruder is nearly identical to new ones also save for a displacement change? C'mon. Truly new or vastly improved motorcycles are a rarity. The truth is, the motorcycle industry is evolutionary, not revolutionary. Manufacturer lead times are in the 18mos. to 3 year range for any change, so engineering problems should be worked out long before Job 1 is built. When there are problems, they usually stem from three places: out sourced items, lack of communication between the production floor and engineering/management, or cutting corners to control production costs. Every manufacturer has the goals and challenges whether they build 2 vehicles a year or 200,000, that is to build a product and sell it at a profit. | ||
| Brucelee |
Yamaha VMAXX??? It is a great bike but I believe it came out in 1984. I think they have it down now!! | ||
| Blake |
Rocket, Sorry buddy, but your reasoning is, well... not reasonable. Your argument falls apart on two major points. The first and most glaring is that more engineers and bigger production rund and more money leads to better product development and quality control, not worse. It is the smaller production shops that are most likely to be blindsided by unforseen problems either from vendors/subcontractors or within their core design. Secondly, you imply that other manufacturers are more likely to suffer problems due to their rapid development cycles. That is a nice idea, but does not stand the test of truth for either the Gold Wing or the BMW's. The Gold Wings certainly don't change every other year. The most recent model before the introduction of the GL1800 in 2001 was the GL1500. The GL1500 ran from 1988 through 2000, TWELVE YEARS! The BMW models have fairly lengthy model runs between new releases as well, not twelve years, but not anything less rapid than what Buell has offered. Evolution of the Buell twins (from S2 onwards)... '94-95: S2 (two years) '96-'02: S1/S3/S3T/M2/S1W/X1 (eight years) '03-...: XB9R/S (one year to XB12R/S) '04-...: XB12R/S (?...) You want the highest quality you need to pay for it or buy a product that is manufactured in HUGE quantities to help defray the cost of quality. The frame failure scenario on the Gold Wings is a HUGE screw up. The factor of safety on that type of critical structure should be well above being susceptable to minor welding flaws/goofs. That was a career ending engineering mistake if you ask me. | ||
| Hippo888 |
Rocketman, As an owner of a 2002 GL1800A Goldwing, I won't rehash the fact that Honda's had over 10 years time to develop the current model and they screwed up big-time. Their handling of the situation is also deplorable. Honda denied that the bikes overheated for over a year then later, they claimed that only 1% of the bikes overheated. Eventually, the documents provided to the NHTSA by Honda showed that 100% of the bikes would overheat if ridden in heavy traffic. However, for over 1 year Honda kept claiming nothing was wrong. The frame disaster stems from Honda's penny-pinching. Sometime during the 2002-2003 model year production run, they decided to leave out reinforcing welds on the frame. Well, it turns out that there was a reason for the reinforcing welds... The welds are there to keep the rear suspension and frame from collapsing. Honda's half-assed fix is to reinforce welds ONLY where the frame is easily and cheaply accessible. In particular, two large welds (each about the size of your wrist) are only reinforced 1/2-way around their circumference as it would be too expensive to re-weld completely around the weakened joint. As far as the comprehensive, detailed welding guide, it's a joke. It's neither comprehensive or detailed. Dealers are interpreting it in many, many different ways. Applications of stringers and wash beads are open to interpretation. Welders do not need to be certified in the particular aluminum the frame is made out of. Photos of welds on the web show massive diffences in applications and quality. Instead of recalling the bikes to a central location where quality control could be maintained, Honda took the cheapest way out and subcontracted everything out. The list of small problems is probably too numerous to mention, but I'll give a start: recalled CD players, recalled CB sets, inoperative trunk latches (especially the left and top trunks. By the way, the recall for the "improved" CD player puts a mounting strut in front of the emergency release for the left saddlebag, so when that bag jams shut, you can't reach the emergency release), coolant leaks from nearly every orifice, front tire cupping, blah, blah, blah, etc. The maddening thing is that the bike is now in it's 4th model year and Honda hasn't fixed ANYTHING that the NHTSA hasn't threatened to get involved with. Honda still claims that when the frame collapses and sends the rear wheel through the rear fender that it "IS NOT A SAFETY ISSUE". This is an actual quote from Honda! As you can guess, I will NEVER, EVER buy another Honda product as long as I live. Something seriously wrong has happened in that company. | ||
| Brucelee |
Oh Horrors, not Honda, they are Japanese!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! | ||
| Nevco1 |
Oh Horrors, not Honda, they are Japanese!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Unfortunately not entirely when you consider their manufacturing plant in Ohio. LOL | ||
| Brucelee |
Why is that unfortunate. Actually, from an auto perspective, the quality of the cars from the Marysville, OH plant often obtain better scores than the ones from Japan. Japanese does not automatically mean quality. Ever buy a SONY product? Pure and simple crap in my experience. | ||
| Bads1 |
Yamaha V-Max was and still is one awesome bike.Very much ahead of its time.Started production 1985.They put a recall on all 1985's for second gear blowing out of them.Other then that bullet proof.They actually started designing that bike in 1977.But I'll agree with Brucelee its ready for a redesign.But to this very day fast bike. | ||
| Brucelee |
Dont get me wrong, I LOVE the VMAXX. I was just saying, the Japanese do not redesign all their bikes very three years. Personally, I would love to own a bike with the VMAXX motor that was a good handler. THAT would be awesome. Love that motor. and the bike looks pretty hot too. | ||
| Hootowl |
I would break out the 99+ tubers from those model year stats...different frames and swingarms you know. | ||
| Nevco1 |
BruceLee...Just teasing you about the Ohio plant. Reason being is that is/was the only plant that manufactured the Gold Wing and that is undergoing a major recall. R&D vs Manufacturing, Japan vs US or Human vs Robotics, who outside the corporate insiders knows for sure? It is just a shame that the Whoops was made in a US facility. | ||
| Dynarider |
All of the frame welds on the GL's are done by man. They had a program on TV not long ago about the plant & the interviewer went thru the whole process of building his own bike. | ||
| Bads1 |
Your right on that one Brucelee,the Max is climbing up on 19 production years and very few changes.I guess you could say its one of those sayings why change a good thing.But to what I have read Yamaha is rumored to be getting ready to redesign it or remove it all together from there line up.I hope not I used to own one bought brand new in 1987 as a left over from 1986.I plan to some day own one again but a 85 model year.They handled like crap and above 120mph you would begin to get tank slappers.But they are truly a rush to ride.They are the burnout kings. | ||
| Rocketman |
Individual models that stand the test of time are not what I am referring to. I'm talking about best selling sports bikes. The very product at the cutting edge of their given manufacturers model range . Fireblade in its 10th year of production has undergone more significant changes than I can remember - everyone of them a year on year attempt to stay ahead of the competition. Ditto the CBR 600. Yamaha R1 first generation lasted about 1 year after which something like 150 changes were made to the original design. Approximately 3 years into production and the R1 is way different from the first generation model. Some 2 years further down the line and todays current R1 is yet again different from any of its predecessors. Shadows, Night Hawks and Intruders are more regular rides in the US thus representing the more 'run of the mill' genre of motorcycle - read not needing aggressive development to stay ahead of the competition. Regular rides don't sell other motorcycles of the same brand like race winners do. Rossi winning on an RCV sells lots of Hondas but Honda won't sell you an RCV yet the kids on the block expect their next best thing Fireblade to mimic the accolades of its track winning sibling. Goldwings are another story but you'd do well to remember that even Honda is feeling the pinch these days. Back to my original point......... The XB9R was held back from launch to allegedly insure product reliability via extensive prolonged testing. I'd guess like I always thought the 12's were held back just in case you know what did happen. Given the perhaps unusual length of time for XB product testing, shall we say in comparison to usual Japanese standards, and the lower production targets required by Buell then I'd fully expect the XB's to be utterly reliable, but further, I'd understand why the Japanese might fall foul of their more demanding targets thus recalls become a necessary evil simply because customer demand to bring a newer model to market sooner places constraints on the manufacturer. A manufacturer missing out on their riding season sales window for a new model will find its potential customer in their rivals showroom. Motorcycles have always been a fickle fancy. The sooner it's in the showroom the sooner it will sell - recalls whilst not guaranteed to do so may come later, in any case they are becoming more accepting of the customer these days. Blake just for you........ Your argument falls apart on two major points. The first and most glaring is that more engineers and bigger production rund and more money leads to better product development and quality control, not worse. It is the smaller production shops that are most likely to be blindsided by unforseen problems either from vendors/subcontractors or within their core design. You got this one arse about face. Ever hear of recalls on MV Agusta, Bimota or Benelli? How about Confederate, or more bizarre, Boss Hoss? Maybe Rolls Royce, Lamborghini or Ferrari? See a pattern here? Rocket | ||
| Daddyhog |
Yamaha has recall on the 2003 Road Star. Seems that a clip in the transmission is defective and may lock up the rear wheel. My bud got a letter telling him not to ride it. Dealers don't have repair kits - yet. The kits may be in the dealers hands in 2-3 weeks. In the mean time he walks. | ||
| Spike |
Rocket, Uh, if you're going to argue for reliability, you might not want to mention Ferrari. Mike | ||
| Road_thing |
Or Confederate. r-t | ||
| Rocketman |
I'm not arguing anything Spike, but do tell, what does a 23 year old bloke from Raleigh working in a Harley shop know about Ferrari's? I've not had problems with any of the Ferrari's I've had through my hands, not saying they're fault less of course . The point was made in regard to Ferrari simply because they represent extremely successful manufacture of high performance vehicles from a very small production yield and they are never subject to recalls which I believe is the opposite of what Blake was saying. There you are, Blake's the one arguing! Rocket | ||
| Spike |
but do tell, what does a 23 year old bloke from Raleigh working in a Harley shop know about Ferrari's? Honestly, I have zero personal experience with Ferraris, with the exception of the 360 Modena I passed at VIR. Everything I know of Ferraris is something I've heard or read somewhere. That being said, I've never heard anything good about Ferrari reliability. At best, I understand it to be an expensive affair. I remember reading a particular article from a car magazine editor (R&T, IIRC) telling his story of Ferrari ownership. He had lusted after an F-car for years and finally got one. While he loved the car, he described it as a maintenance nightmare. He eventually got rid of the car when he felt that the considerable time the car was spending in the shop was outweighing his desire to own a Ferrari. Of course, I'm just a 23 year old from Raleigh working in a Harley shop. What do I know? Mike} |
