| Author | Message | ||
     D3r3k |
www.detroithooligans.com | ||
| Wardamneagle |
Man that sucks | ||
| Ourdee |
Derek, 3 years, more patience than I? I'd have took it to the factory by now. Did you get the name of the guy they brought in to fix it?  | ||
| Randomchaos |
Yikes, have they tested the ECM? Does it happen faster while in warm weather vs cold? What about sitting in traffic? | ||
| Figitt |
I would take it to another dealer for repair... you have to understand that intermittant wiring problems are hard to find, sometimes taking several attempts. I have seen this before from other brands and other products, cars, airplanes, etc. You really need someone thats willing to not give up till they find the problem, instead of just doing a couple tests and kicking it out the door. | ||
| Jeffroj |
Have you replaced the ecm, or at least tried running the bike with a different ecm? | ||
| Herobluebuell |
did you replace the seat? any aftermarket parts? I had a similar problem with my 06 xb9. what it turned out to be is i got a new battery under warrenty and when they put the battery in the wires running from the ECM ran into the seat so when you sat on it it would cut in and out and run like shit. Check all your wires. I took mine to the stealership 3 or 4 times for the same problem and finally it took me my father and brother an hour to find the problem and fix it. (Message edited by herobluebuell on December 09, 2008) | ||
| Ez_rider |
Unless I'm mistaken (and I may be), I think the only time the check engine light will blink (instead of staying on steady)is when an overtemp condition is detected by the engine temp sensor on the rear head. When this occurs, I think the ECM retards timing and/or richens the mixture. I'd be looking VERY closely at the temp sensor and the sensor wiring from the rear cylinder head back to the ECM. I had a loose sesnor when I first bought my bike, and it caused similar issues to what you've described... Hope this helps. | ||
| Iamarchangel |
The check engine light will also come on in some ground fault conditions. (You've all heard my story of the headlight sub-assembly ground.) I'd be looking at the seat story first as the easiest then I'd be following every ground wire connected to the ignition circuit. In my case, once I found it, I could wiggle the wire (without the engine running) and the light would start flashing. So, try this, turn the key to on, run on but don't start it. Have somebody watch the light, actually it clicks so you might hear it. Wiggle all the connectors until the light comes on. Follow the ignition circuit first because that seems to be what is cutting out. It will take a while because the light is not steady fast (from the video). That tells me that the connection is good more than it is bad and it will take some wiggling to find it. The good news is that, if you keep riding it, it will get worse and less intermittent. Then you will know what it is. You'll be stranded somewhere but you'll have resolved this issue. Hope this helps. | ||
| Brumbear |
Srew that call lemon law or go to county clerk file a small claims law suit for 14,999.00 if they do not respond to the law suit you win by default if they do sue them it will at least cost them 5 grand to show up. They put you through it if I believe you and I do you got a chance a judge will too. | ||
| Court |
Michigan's Lemon Law (See Compiled Laws Annotated §§ 257.1401-1410) does NOT apply to motorcycles. The jurisdiction of the small claims division shall be confined to cases for the recovery of money only when the amount claimed does not exceed $3,000.00. I'd suggest before you take legal advise on the internet, you study the law first. I have no idea as to if this case has merits or not. I, nor any customer service rep in their right mind, would touch a case that has been referred to the Attorney General, at that point it became a legal action, not a customer service matter. Understanding the difference is paramount, some folks don't but most have heard somebody say "We can't discuss ongoing litigation". I won't even respond to e-mails that are threatening and start with a paragraph loaded full of threats. That's a person looking for a fight not a fix. If you've got the time and money (it's going to take lots of both) to go the litigation route, God bless ya . . . as a student of the law and President of a construction company for 20+ years I've learned to avoid litigation like the plague. It is well settled that the Courts will protect a person from the misdeeds of others but not their own stupidity. I've seen this played on in foolishly executed Lemon Law actions twice. Imagine . . . in the instant example . . . if this poor fellow :
Funny kind of winning in my book . . . . I go to the internet for entertainment. I go to a lawyer for legal advise. I mean . . . how would you feel going to the Court to file a Lemon Law action and having some clerk have to break it to you that Michigan HAS NO lemon law. You too, like I did, can find a rather complete recitation of the Michigan Civil Procedures and Court Statues Statutes and court rules associated with small claims proceedings at: MCL 600.8401 through MCL 600.8427 and MCR 4.301 through MCR 4.306. Smart always beats mad. | ||
| D3r3k |
I know Michigan doesn't have a lemon law. I posted that on the page. I also know a $3000 small claim isn't going to fix my problem, but how is jumping through their hoops for a year and half, and paying for a motorcycle I can't ride the smart approach? Better yet, what do you recommend so other people don't get stuck in the same situation I'm in? (Message edited by d3r3k on December 10, 2008) | ||
| Bombardier |
+1 Court. Having just taken on the State Police, representing myself in court against the Police Prosecutor and won, I feel that you should listen to the advice of Court. (Message edited by Bombardier on December 10, 2008) | ||
| Brumbear |
Sorry the law in NJ is 15K then go to a a court and file the claim anyway a trial by jury still should only cost you court fees no ? And H-D would still have to reply to anything you send em. | ||
| Court |
 I'll remember this . . . . I have a Civil Procedure final tonight at 6:00PM. | ||
| Bombardier |
Don't tell me you are going to be a LAWYER!!!!!!!!!! Oh say it's not so. To return to the original question aforementioned by my esteemed collegue...... You would do well to take the advice in the repair of your motorcycle from members of this and other Buell websites. Their collective wisdom with this type of motorcycle (XB) started in 2002 and I would hazard a guess that there is very little that one or more of them has not experienced with regards to faults. (Message edited by Bombardier on December 10, 2008) | ||
| Brumbear |
what with you h-d paying ya the guy has spent the better part of 2 years it seems getting his bike right the mother ship is not getting it done try everything you can to get your time and money back the only way I can see not doing it is if the 10K plus you spend on a new MC means nothing to you | ||
| Brumbear |
Should you retain an attorney? What kinds of problems are covered by the new Lemon Law? How do I know if I have a "lemon" covered by the Lemon Law? Is there a time period within which the initial attempted repair must occur? Does the buyer or lessee have the option of requesting a refund or replacement vehicle? If I want a refund, what is included in the purchase or lease price? Must the buyer or lessee resort to the manufacturer's arbitration procedure before filing a claim in the court system to pursue Lemon Law remedies? If I go through mediation, is the decision binding on me? If the buyer decides to bring a lawsuit against the manufacturer and wins in court, can attorney fees also be recovered? Can the manufacturer deduct an amount for the use of the vehicle prior to its return? If the Lemon Law does not apply, are there other laws that might help a buyer or lessee? Can the manufacturer or dealer cause consumers to waive their rights under the Lemon Law using a special clause in a contract? After my last chance letter, how long does the manufacturer have to repair my vehicle? Okay, I think I have a defective motor vehicle. How do I start the process? Q. Should you retain an attorney? A. Definitely. I have substantially greater negotiation power and can achieve better results. I have worked successfully in the consumer field for over 10 years developing extensive legal knowledge and I know the contacts within the manufacturers. Further, if I can't collect anything for you, then I am not entitled to a fee. Call Ron now for fast, personal service! Toll-Free 1-888-737-8001 Return to Top Q. What kinds of problems are covered by the new Lemon Law? A. The Lemon Law protects a consumer whose new motor vehicle has a "defect or condition that impairs the use or value of the new motor vehicle to the consumer." Significantly, the law now measures the defect or condition from the point of view of the individual consumer, not the manufacturer or dealer. Clearly, an engine, transmission, brake or steering defect may meet this level of impairment. However, a persistent intermittent defect, such as a water leak, noxious odor, or paint problem may also be a defect or condition entitling the consumer to relief under the Lemon Law. Return to Top Q. How do I know if I have a "lemon" covered by the Lemon Law? A. The consumer may invoke the Lemon Law if: 1. The new motor vehicle has been subject to repair a total of 4 or more times within 2 years of the date of the first attempt to repair the defect or condition, or, 2. The new motor vehicle is out of service because of repairs for a total of 30 or more days during the manufacturer's warranty period or the first year, whichever is earlier. Take our test Return to Top Q. Is there a time period within which the initial attempted repair must occur? A. Yes. The buyer or lessee must have done the initial repair during the first year of delivery. The remaining three repairs, for the same defect, must occur within two years from the initial repair attempt. Alternatively, the vehicle must be out of service for repair for 30 or more days during the term of the manufacturer's express warranty or within 1 year of delivery, whichever is earlier. Return to Top Q. Does the buyer or lessee have the option of requesting a refund or replacement vehicle? A. Yes. The buyer or lessee has the right to demand a refund or may choose to accept a comparable replacement motor vehicle currently in production. If a lessee agrees to accept a replacement vehicle, the lease agreement cannot be changed, except to substitute the vehicle identification number. Return to Top Q. If I want a refund, what is included in the purchase or lease price? A. The "purchase price" of the vehicle is the actual vehicle sales price listed on the buyer's order including any cash payment, trade-in allowance, sales tax, license and registration fees and other government charges. The "lease price" means the actual sales price paid by the lessor and includes the same additions as the "purchase price." Excluded are debts from other transactions as well as customer discounts, rebates and incentives. Return to Top Q. Can the manufacturer or dealer cause consumers to waive their rights under the Lemon Law using a special clause in a contract? A. No. Any contract clause which seeks to waive a consumer's rights under the Lemon Law is void. Return to Top Q. If the Lemon Law does not apply, are there other laws that might help a buyer or lessee? A. The Lemon Law is only one law protecting buyers and lessees. Consumers may also pursue claims under the Michigan Consumer Protection Act, Michigan Uniform Commercial Code, Federal Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act, and other contract remedies. For more information, consumers may contact the Attorney General's Consumer Protection Division. Return to Top Q. Must the buyer or lessee resort to the manufacturer's arbitration procedure before filing a claim in the court system to pursue Lemon Law remedies? A. No, unless the manufacturer's mediation procedure conforms to Federal Trade Commission regulations and the manufacturer expressly requires the consumer to resort to the mediation process. Many manufacturers' mediation procedures do not meet the requirements of the Federal Trade Commission regulations. Return to Top Q. If I go through mediation, is the decision binding on me? A. No. The manufacturer is bound by the decision, but the consumer is not. Some manufacturers are trying to force binding arbitration and it is very important to know which applies. Call our office to discuss this issue if it applies. Return to Top this is from a Michigan lemon law page | ||
| Court |
>>this is from a Michigan lemon law page Fabulous . . . .if you have a car. Motorcycles are SPECIFICALLY exempted from Michigan Lemon Law. See Compiled Laws Annotated §§ 257.1401-1410. And . . . . I'd approach anybody that offers to work for FREE with the "you get what you pay for" attitude. I charge A LOT. I like the people I meet and the clients I get. | ||
| Etennuly |
Well legal stuff aside, it sounds exactly like the problem I had back in July with my '06 Uly. At 50-60 miles out, leaving for a trip, it started flashing the red light and went into run/skip mode(at least it simulated it perfectly). After the second time at leaving for the trip and at 50-60 miles out it did it again. I took the seat off and wiggled and moved the wires around. It went another 50-60 miles and again it did it. Then I noticed the wire that was just touching the metal battery housing, I think it was the blue/orange one. I twisted the wire to where I could see it and sure enough it was just barely warn through to where a tiny bit of silver was showing. I let it back down to its original position and noticed a black spot on the anodized bracket where it had been arcing. Turns out the wire was for #2 coil. It would only hang low enough to touch when it was completely warmed up. When it cooled off it would pull up just a tiny bit and not cause the issue. It emulated the run/skip of over heating by first being run at 80 mph for 50-60 miles, then flashing red light, then it skipped. The firing every other time was #2 not firing for the short. It did not throw a code either. I taped the wire and put a twist in the harness so that it would hang differently and it is fixed. Thank goodness I didn't have to take it into the shop for that. They would ride it a couple of miles and tell me there is no problem. They can't take the time to ride it far enough and fast enough to make it happen. | ||
| Hogs |
Etennuly, That just goes to SHOW there are them that call themselves Wrenchers, As I refer to as Mechanics and then those that have NO Business to even look at a bike Let alone work on Buells Period..! | ||
| Court |
Vern: Can you send me a photo of the area and the offending wire? Thanks, Court | ||
| D3r3k |
Thanks for the feedback. I'm convinced it's a simple wiring issue that just hasn't been discovered yet. Unfortunately, I'm a Coder, not a Wrencher. | ||
| D3r3k |
Post the pic and I'll take a look at it. | ||
| Dbird29 |
You should lean on your friends here at BadWeb for help fixing your bike. Plenty of people here just itching to wrench. No sense to live with a problem and not fix it. | ||
| Gemini |
if you have access to ec,spy and a laptop, do a datalog, that may give you soem insite as to the ecm is trying to do. | ||
| Etennuly |
Court, I can e-mail a picture to you later this evening. I have appointments to make today. | ||
| Court |
No hurry. Im studying for a final tonight and will be snowed under all day. | ||
| Iamarchangel |
Etennuly On Derek's video the light is not constantly flashing. Did yours act like his? It sounds similar and closer to what I think is happening. | ||
| Etennuly |
On Derek's video the light is not constantly flashing. Did yours act like his? It sounds similar and closer to what I think is happening. If I recall correctly the flash was steady, but not consistent, and it would clear up if I slowed down. As I would bring it back up to 70+ from 50-55 mph it would start doing it again. Below 50-55 mph it did not do it. My memory was probably fogged a little that day because I was pretty hostile as I was headed out on the bike with parts and tools packed to rescue my wife who was 400 miles away in my truck which had eaten a wheel bearing. I went about 60 miles out and had to come back, then 60 miles out it did it again. It made for a long day for sure. The bike had shown the same symptoms on a couple of rides months earlier, but nothing I could replicate or prove. Those times it just flashed a couple of times and sputtered while doing it. It then would clear up for long periods of time. I also seem to recall that it only ever did it on a long (2 to 5 mile) up grade on the Interstate running 70+ mph. It did progressively worsen until I found the wire problem. |
