| Author | Message | ||
     Moosestang |
So I got a cable and reset my tps today. I've been reading all the old posts about ecmspy and keep coming across this square idle modification which I think is changing a few blocks in the fuel maps. How many and which blocks actually get changed and are the numbers 76F and 71R good for an xb9 and 12? My bike has a drummer and open airbox if that matters. Someone mentioned changing the timing at the lower TPS settings to 5 degrees. How many people have messed with that? All six of my blocks are 0. So does the square idle just make it idle better/smoother? Fuel maps, race ecm.   timing table  | ||
| Gemini |
the idea of square idle is to put the cells that the bike idles at to the same value to help limit the rpm fluctuation at idle. i prefer to change the rpm range of the idle cell so i tend to stay in one cell instead of changing 4 cells to the same value. have not tried the spark advance change you mentioned. i would say about 95% of the time that i idle i am in the second column bottom row over. this is after i changed the rpm vs tps cells. i then chose the value to use in that cell by getting my bike to operate in closed loop at idle and then changing the map until my ego and afv stayed near 100% | ||
| Swordsman |
I did a square idle for mine. I really didn't notice any change at all.  ~SM | ||
| Moosestang |
So lets say I change the timing in the 10 and 20 columns to 5 up to 1350rpms. Could this cause any harm? Might it eliminate the stutter when reving the bike off idle? Listen to me, i don't even know how to change the timing table.  Anyone think the bike needs more fuel at WOT in the upper rpm range? I can't see any harm in adding fuel up top. | ||
| Randomchaos |
More fuel could foul the plugs. These bikes are prone to fouling plugs anyways, so i wouldnt do it since it "cant hurt", unless you are 100% sure its leaning out in the higher revs. | ||
| Iamarchangel |
The way I see it, part of the fun of ecmspy is to experiment, document and share. Try it and see. Cautions: don't go more than a quarter mile without checking plugs, etc. Only if you're sure should you continue. Also, watch for basic beginner tuner mistake: monitor what you just worked on. Seen to many racers working on idle and testing it by racing. Wrong area of the process. Bear in mind, I haven't used ecmspy yet. I'm just going off my other experiences. | ||
| Xl_cheese |
Try this. Take the average of two squares at a time instead of all 4. 1. Average 15/800 and 15/1000 and replace those two squares with that number. 2. Average 10/800 and 10/1000 then replace those two squares with that value. Now you want CL idle enabled. You want the ego corr to hover around 100. to do this you need to adjust all 4 suares on the front and rear map by the same amount. With the engine warm and the bike idling in CL you want to watch the ego corr. If it's at 90 then substract a point or two. If it's at 110 then add a pt or two. On my xb12 my front map was: 73 73 68 68 and the rear: 62 62 60 60 I have an o2 sensor on the front pipe so I was able to do each cycliner individually to get the ego corr right at 100. The reason I think this makes sense is when you watch the maps in ecmspy while the bike is idling. The tps stays constant while the rpm wiggles around 1k. After doing this I have never had a cough or hesitation from take off and the bike idles pretty smooth. | ||
| Moosestang |
Well my front would be 60 60 55 55 rear would be 54 54 48 48 I may give those numbers a try on Thursday. I took the bike out for a ride and it started fine, but idle was lower and rough. I had set the tps to 5.1% which gave me 4.4 deg. I think it ran better before the tps reset. It would be nice to have a idle that is stable around 900rpms. i don't like it idling at 1050. I may try changing the timing squares that show 0, but not sure if i'm that brave. | ||
| Buplaux |
Moose FYI adding advance in the low rpm areas really helps throttle response. I started with 5 degrees and actually ended up with 15 degrees all the way up and down the 800 and 1000 rpm columns. Much peppier off idle. There is very little load in these areas of the map so more advance will not hurt anything. I have ran as much as 20 degrees before I started to get mild pinging and making hard on the starter to turn it over. Have fun! Jeff | ||
| Xl_cheese |
make sure to check the ego corr when in closed loop idle. The connection box will be yellow instead of green. You want the ego. corr to be ~98-102. Change all 8 squares at once bring it up or down. | ||
| Moosestang |
make sure to check the ego corr when in closed loop idle. The connection box will be yellow instead of green. You want the ego. corr to be ~98-102. Change all 8 squares at once bring it up or down. Let me make sure I got it straight. I first change the numbers to what I posted above. Then start the bike and let it idle at operating temperature. Add or subtract the same amount from all 8 squares until my ego corr is 100. | ||
| Treadmarks |
I would add or subtract one cell at a time until they were as close as possible to 100. The square idle was initially for the first version of ecmspy, which would only allow you select four cell blocks. The newest version will allow a more precise approach. Good Luck. | ||
| Xl_cheese |
.Let me make sure I got it straight. I first change the numbers to what I posted above. Then start the bike and let it idle at operating temperature. Add or subtract the same amount from all 8 squares until my ego corr is 100 correct. | ||
| Kalali |
So, do you "Disable" the closed loop idle once the adjustments are made, or leave it in the "Enable" mode? One other question. How is the "Open Loop Learn" mode used? Is this more of a datalogging tool? Thanks. | ||
| Xl_cheese |
Some people choose to disable CL idle, but I just left mine enabled. From what I have read about open loop learn is that it will only change the AFV to a higher value if it senses a long lean condition in open loop. So it really doesn't do much. | ||
| Red_chili |
Open loop learn means that not only will the closed loop area affect the AFV (fairly quickly), but the open loop area - the area where you want to run a tad richer, for power - will also affect it though it takes longer. This means when you have open loop set slightly fat, it will lean out your AFV (leaner than you might wish) after a bit, if the open loop learn is enabled. For this reason I run it disabled. I only want closed loop to set the AFV. | ||
| Gemini |
alright, time for a correction. wether you run idle closed loop on or off, when the bike is closed loop and is rich or lean, it will adjust the afv of the whole map on both cyl. this is why you must tune the closed loop areas to 14.7 as long as the goal voltage is .49-.50 volts. if you tune the top end of your bike to 14.2 while the closed loop is at 14.7 and then retune the closed loop to 14.5, you just f'd yourself. because the closed loop is now fuel rich, it will lean out the whole fuel map (reduce afv). long story short, make sure that if closed loop idle is active, that the idle is tuned to 14.7. | ||
| Xl_cheese |
long story short, make sure that if closed loop idle is active, that the idle is tuned to 14.7. Doesn't tuning CL idle to an ego corr of 100 do this? | ||
| Gemini |
yes. it is important to understand that a change in afv while in closed loop effects the whole map, not just the closed loop part. | ||
| Moosestang |
Can you burn to the ecm while the bike is running? Sorry for the noob questions. I'm going to try the square idle thing tomorrow. | ||
| Moosestang |
Well I don't get it. I burned the map and reset the tps. The bike started fine when cold and idled fine even when warmed up. It took 1600 seconds for the bike to reach 180 deg. I shut it off for a few minutes and then it wouldn't stay running when I tried to restart it. Ecmspy says the tps % should be 5.1, but my bike doesn't want to stay running at that setting in open loop. Really getting frustrated with this. | ||
| Moosestang |
In order for it to stay running I have to adjust the idle until the tps is 6.3% or there about, which gives me an idle around 1050. The ego correction was running at 110% while it was running. Do you have to reset the TPS every time you change the map? | ||
| Swordsman |
The throttle % recommended by the ECMSpy manual is just a starting point to get it to crank. You may need to adjust your idle cable a little higher(thus increasing the throttle %) to get it where it needs to be, which is around 1000 rpms. ~SM | ||
| Moosestang |
Yes if I adjust the idle up, then it doesn't idle in the fuel map squares in question. My ego correction % just seems to go up when I increase those squares. It was up to 120%. I'm worried it won't idle at all cold now. So can you change the fuel maps while the bike is running or not? When trying to burn to the ecm it asks you to toggle the ignition? | ||
| Moosestang |
To put it back to stock, do I need to burn the stock eeprom back to the ecm or can I just burn the stock map to the ecm? For some reason it's showing a 120% cold start enrichment and the engine temp is 94 deg celcius. I just tried to start it and it died plus gas came out the breather tube and some smoke came out from under the airbox cover. Now i'm afraid it will burn to the ground! Wish I had never touched it now. When it says to toggle the ignition after burning to the ecm, does it been the red button or the actual key in the ignition? (Message edited by moosestang on October 02, 2008) | ||
| Moosestang |
Well I officially gave up messing with it today. I re-burned the stock eeprom just to be save as well as the stock fuel maps. I don't remember gas leaking out of the vent tube for the fuel pump before, but I did turn it on and off a lot, so maybe that's why. My AFV% is 115 the way it is now and the ego corr was juming between 116 and 123. I just don't get it. | ||
| Xl_cheese |
So when you did the squre Idle change to the 8 squares did you adjust them up to get your ego Corr at 100 while in idle? Start at 5.1% then bump up if needed. Get the idle between 950 and 1000. | ||
| Moosestang |
I bumped them up, but i'm not sure if it actually changed. Do you change the blocks while the bike is running or do you need to shut it off? I know you can press the key icon and temporarily disconnect from the ecm, but do you then burn the new values while it's still running? i started to burn the new map while it was running, but when it said to toggle the ignition, i shut the bike off and then clicked ok. The values changed in the boxes, but it didn't seem to affect the ego corr. I could press the key button, then change the values, press the key again and they would stay changed, but I assume you haven't changed anything until you burn it to the ecm. I need to get a laptop before I mess with it again. i took my wifes dell desktop outside and she wasn't happy about dat. | ||
| Typeone |
i shut the bike down, then key and switch back on to make cell edits. burn the maps again, just maps is fine, then cycle with switch off, key off, key on, switch on. this is how i do it and never have connection or burn issues. if you keep editing in the garage over and over without taking the bike for a quick ride, up the street is fine, the bike will get super grumpy and reading the EGO Corr. isn't as accurate. the fuel dripping has happened to me too. i chalk it up as too much fiddling without running the bike up the road and quit when it starts to show this. a quick ride clears it up. FWIW, the square idle hasnt completely worked for me either yet. i've tried multiple times but it never idles quite as smooth as it does when i tweak the cell values individually. | ||
| Moosestang |
Well I took the bike for a quick spin and it ran good. First time i've ridden it wihtout a helmet and i'm pretty sure it's pinging above 4k rpms. I don't think I had it completely warmed up though because the fan never ran when I shut it off. Will it ping when the engine is cold? I always associate pinging to a hot engine/to much timing or low octane fuel. I always run 93 octane, so that's not it. Why do my fuel maps drop between 3400-4400? That doesn't seem right for wide open throttle. Shouldn't it be steady or increas as the rpms increase? Once I get a laptop, i'm going to add some fuel in those cell and see if it stops pinging. I think i'll leave the idle alone for now. |
