| Author | Message | ||
     Jaimec |
Harley TRIED to patent the sound. They eventually gave up and the Honda Shadow ACE still uses the shared crankpin. The engine is technologically way too different from the Harley mill to make any kind of patent infringement case stick. But you are right in that the angle of the V drastically changes the timing of the ignition pulses (which is what creates the noise). It's what gives the Harley engine that loping gate, and the BMW the sound of a sewing machine on steroids... | ||
| Ekass13 |
Diablobrian +1 | ||
| Xl1200r |
Excellent point that's helps me make mine Darth, thanks. Where does the money come from? Who gives the financial backing for research that allows for "interactive valves"....."gas in frame"...."centralized muffler"? Where does the majority of motors for our Buells come from? I think we can al agree that without Harley, the XB's and 1125 probably wouldn't exist. Kind of what I was thinking. The Corvette is Chevy's only RWD car right now, and the Z06 is the only one using dry-sump oiling and a 6-speed manual transmission. Must not be a Chevy if that stuff is different than the rest. The name of the thread is who MAKES Buell... not who owns them. Yeah a little of topic... Buell makes Buell. it's that simple And if HD owns the factory and pays the employees and build Buells, who's really building them now? And my girlfriend's 4 cyl Honda Civic sounds nothing like a GSXR600, so it much be just the number of cylinders. | ||
| Motorico |
It is not just the angle of the engine that makes a Harley motor sound like potato-potato. It is the timing of the power strokes as well. Many engines time the power strokes to minimize vibrations but the Harley v-twin times them closely together. In effect there is about a revolution between power pulses as both occur quickly then the engine goes through the other two cycles. | ||
| Xb9rnutt |
Xl1200r "Kind of what I was thinking. The Corvette is Chevy's only RWD car right now, and the Z06 is the only one using dry-sump oiling and a 6-speed manual transmission. Must not be a Chevy if that stuff is different than the rest." Not to be disrespectful but you are missing the point. Google Chevy cars (It will only take two seconds) and you will see. Not Google Harley and you will see only Harleys website not one Buell. Same goes for Buell; you can’t find any add for a Softail on Buell’s website. The point is the Corvette is just another car offered in Chevy line up. The same as a Firebolt and a Uly are two different bikes offered in the Buell Line up. So I guess the vote will still have to go to Buell makes Buell. | ||
| Azxb9r |
Buell makes Buell, but the parent company is Harley. Just like Saturn makes Saturn, but the parent co. is GM, and Scion makes Scion, but the parent co. is Toyota. I often tell people that Buell is like Harleys sport bike division if they are having too hard a time figuring it out, or if I don't feel like spending all day explaining. | ||
| Retrittion |
It is funny listening to people talk about this subject, which basically went from a thread about the people who don't know anything about Buells to an argument about the ownership and corporate structures. So, since we are in the area of technicalities I'll weigh in since I was a CEO and President of a corporation as well as focusing on law in my college studies. So, to the issues: Corporations are considered people by the United States (and international) legal system. This means, in effect, Buell is in an employee/employer relationship with HDI (NOT Harley-Davidson Motor Company, the legal entity we call "Harley"). This would make Buell M.C. and Harley Davidson M.C. siblings, members in the same family. From a legal standpoint neither BMC or HDMC has a "senior" position, though in practical terms we know who gets the support, funding, and dealership advantages. So, the LEGAL, CORRECT, and UNASSAILABLE answer to give when asked "Who makes Buell" (and the more common "who makes that?") is "Buell Motor Company (or 'B.M.C.')". If the issue is pushed further you can answer to the suggestion that they are made by "Harley" by pointing out that "Harley is a different company that employs separate design and manufacturing facilities, as well as being separately funded". If the person persists by pointing out that there is a HDMC engine in your bike feel free to point out that a Rotax engine in the 1125r doesn't make that an Aprilia. If the person persists past that point they are an idiot and/or a troll and should be ignored as such. This side of the issue is actually very cut and dried since it is about legal definitions. The issues that have arisen between the now entwined BMC and HDMC as far as allocation of resources, race presence, etc can still be debated though -- so have at it! Personally, I usually just say, "You got me -- they are actually made by Elves in the hidden city of Troy. If you watch the movie you might see some of them in the background. Shhhhhh, don't tell anyone." . . . "idiot" (done in sotto voice)   (Message edited by retrittion on June 26, 2008) | ||
| Slamber777 |
PERFECT!! l might just make a copy of Retrittion's comment for future reference, 'cause l thought, all this time, they were made by Gnomes. Huh, Elves. Who'd a thought?  | ||
| Cringblast |
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| Wolfridgerider |
Why are do all the new Buells start with X in their name? Except one. XB12R XB12S XB12Scg XB12Ss XB12STT XB12X XB12XT XB12XP XB9SX X = Sportster B = Buell 1125R no X... no Sportster based motor See ya at Homecoming! Not the 105th! | ||
| Buellinachinashop |
"See ya at Homecoming! Not the 105th!" I'll be at both... Homecoming with my XB, 105th with my Harley motor and Harley owned product...I am a HOG Member. Best of both worlds! | ||
| Jaimec |
"Why do all the new Buell models start with X in their name except one?" TWO: Don't forget the P3, their best selling model! | ||
| Wolfridgerider |
OOPS! I think it should start with half of a X <p3  | ||
| Cudajohn |
If anyone wants to make a comparison with the HDI/BMC/HDMC relationship and "Shivvy" you only need to be reminded that General Motors is the parent of Shivvy, Pontiac, Buick..... They all had 3.8L V6 engines yet one manufacture didn't make all the cars because they were the first to employ the engine then other manufacturers late used it. Same with the "Sportster" engine in HDMC and BMC motorcycles. As Chevrolet and Pontiac are under the General Motors Corporation the Buell Motorcycle Company AND Harley Davidson Motor Company are under HDI. If you are thinking Buell goes to Harley Davidson Motorcycles for ANYTHING you are wrong, wrong, wrong. BMC goes to HD Inc. for everything just as Chevrolet or Pontiac would not go to each other but to the parent, GM. In fact if you want to get really ignorant you could say Chevrolet's are really just Buicks because Buick was the first company ever in the General Motors Corporation. You see now, Buick doesn't make Shivvy and Harley Davidson Motorcycle don't make Buell. | ||
| Wolfridgerider |
I will say this and know that I am 100% correct. I don't give a sh!t about all the particulars..... I love my Uly and KNOW its the best bike I have ever owned. | ||
| Buellinachinashop |
"If you are thinking Buell goes to Harley Davidson Motorcycles for ANYTHING you are wrong, wrong, wrong. BMC goes to HD Inc." Not accurate at all. Ever been in the Harley Davidson Product Development Center? You'd be shocked as to all the Buell projects that Harley has worked on along side Buell folks,including the XB project. Buell still works very very closely with the the folks at HD's Endurance Test lab with the XB motors. I could be wrong, but I believe Erik Buell even has a office at either the PDC or at Juneau Ave. Nobody is saying that Harley makes Buell bikes, we all know they supply the motors and the folks in ET take care of assembly. But by denying HD and HDI influences on Buell, you're making a big big mistake. Chevy's CEO isnt GM's CEO. Harley Motors and HDI's ceo's are Jim Ziemer. So in essence, when Buell goes to HDI, they are going to Harley Motors. | ||
| Spike |
Because that's the name of the platform- the X-Brace. Neither the 1125R nor the P3 Blast use the X-Brace frame, so they are not XBs. Someone more educated than I could probably tell you why all Sportsters are XLs (except XRs, which are not actually Sportsters). I know why an FL is not an FX, I don't know why an XL is not an XX. | ||
| Buellinachinashop |
Nope, no "X" there.  | ||
| Xl1200r |
Not to be disrespectful but you are missing the point. Google Chevy cars (It will only take two seconds) and you will see. Not Google Harley and you will see only Harleys website not one Buell. Same goes for Buell; you can’t find any add for a Softail on Buell’s website. Worth looking at... http://www.harley-davidson.com/wcm/Content/Pages/B uell/buell.jsp?locale=en_US&bmLocale=en_US And I also use the "Harley's sportbike division" apprach to explaining the brand. It gets the point across just fine. | ||
| Xb9rnutt |
The bottom line to me is that if someone can't accept that there bike isn't a Harley it's because they still want to belong to the HOG group at heart. I bought the bike because of the ideas that Erik came up with. We can’t help who he gets his parts or money from. Heck, I just had a guy yesterday ask me what kind of bike I ride when I told him Buell. He thought for a second and said "Oh a Harley!" I had to say nope it’s a Buell!!! I think that most of us could agree that we wouldn't care who or what (elves) made these great machines. We’re just glad that they are here for our amusement and punishment.  | ||
| Jaimec |
They ask me "What kind of bike is that?" and I tell them "It's a Lightning." If they ask who makes it, THEN I tell them "Buell." | ||
| Darth_buell |
But by denying HD and HDI influences on Buell, you're making a big big mistake. I think that ERIK BUELL had influences on Harley's . If I'm not mistaken, Harley employed him and alot of ideas were used very enthusiasticlly. (did I spell that right.) Sportster's were mounted to the frame until around 5 years ago... Buell had the motor rubber mounted to the frame since late 80's. Sounds like HARLEY DAVIDSON took cues from THE MAN. Is this thread dying yet.  | ||
| Badlionsfan |
Who makes Buell? The rider does. End of discussion. | ||
| Diablobrian |
+1 Badlionsfan | ||
| Bigredwood |
I have been lurking this thread for a while now. It reminds me of a similar situation between a racer/builder and a major corporation. A man with a love of racing and always wore a cowboy hat once had an idea. He embraced the American Engineering of large, powerful motors. He loved and race with the Foreign (mostly British) Engineering of small, agility based vehicles. With a little bit of hardwork and passion, he made a business out of assembling cars . . . Shelby- America was born. AC Cars (of Thames Ditton , England) and Ford Motors bestowed resources to form the first cars to better the legendary Ferrari GTOs. Welcome to the age of the AC-Ford Cobra (CSX 2166)! These cars were sold at Ford dealerships around the country. The British chassis Hugged either 427cc or 428cc engines (dependant of year) all donated by Ford, but doctored by Carrol Shelby himself. Later he built several cars for the Ford Motor Company. Most noteably the Shelby Cobra Mustang (GT350 / GT500) and GT-40 Mark-II's of the late-60's. I understand that this man's story has similar ties with Erik Buell's story. But in the end, Carroll Shelby retained all the patents and rights to the GT500s, GT350s and the legendary 1965 AC COBRA S/C. Which caused major arguments between him and Ford Motor Company. (My father loved cars, I love bikes. He idolized Carroll Shelby and I am constantly following the growth Erik Buell.) I also understand that this debate is entertaining to all reading and sharing. But I hope for us, Buell's story doesn't end up in a drought similar to the Shelby Mustang. To this day, I am still surprised at how much I love my Buell XB. I truly have never had a bike that consumed so much riding time and barely any garage time. Thank You Erik Buell and company for building my bike. Thank you Harley-Davidson for continuing to finance the making of a my bike. I don't care about the semantics, I don't want to wait 30 years to see the next Buells. Love your bikes and the time I get to ride them. Thanks again to all that contributed to the completion of my bike! | ||
| Bigredwood |
If the person persists by pointing out that there is a HDMC engine in your bike feel free to point out that a Rotax engine in the 1125r doesn't make that an Aprilia. Further down the spiral of semantics . . . Rotax is owned by BRP (better known as Bombardier). They develop and supply motors to Buell, Aprilia, Can-Am, ATK, BMW, Bimota and KTM. Along with making Bombardier brand Watercrafts, Atv's and Utv'.s I wonder . . . has anyone on a Victory been asked, "Isn't that Polaris's motorcycle?" (Message edited by bigredwood on June 28, 2008) | ||
| Retrittion |
LOL -- I was thinking that same thing about Victory the other day -- but after I though about it I realized that it explains that crazy new touring bike with the monster front faring. Actually, they are pretty cool looking bikes -- crazy lines. Sometimes I think my main issue with people calling my Buell a Harley is that I don't want to join that club and I don't particularly like the way HDMC treats me via their outlets (dealers) and public support (racing, aftermarket). I think that if I felt less like a leper when dealing with Harley I would be more likely to welcome being identified with the the brand -- just speaking for myself here. I have to say I have always thought pretty highly of Harley but lately I get tired of going to the dealerships and dealing with the blatant commercialism, obnoxiously attired young girls and RUBs in tee-shirts giving me the stink-eye when I roll up wearing gear and an actual helmet rather than a brain bucket. Yeah I'm a bit irked -- I know -- but as far as I'm concerned the bike I ride was the result of a guy named Eric deciding to go down a different path (ala Shelby) and some juggling of paperwork or someone with a bag of cash doesn't change that identity for me, not for my 12R. Buell made my Buell  | ||
| Bads1 |
Again....Who's Eric??? | ||
| Jaimec |
Wasn't he one of the original Monty Python Troupe? | ||
| 46champ |
Gee Retrittion the dealer I go thru in Tigard Or treats me perty nice, they look at my bike when I ride up and I ride a tuber. Ofcourse they're out of Buells to sell except one TT, lots of Harley's left never thought I would see the day that would happen. |
