| Author | Message | ||
     Retrittion |
Gee, I wonder why he's called a Buelltroll... 1: Getting on any bike is a risk - anyone who doesn't accept that is an idiot. 2: You can survive a fall out of a plane without of a parachute - anyone want to test the odds though? 3: An XB isn't a good bike to learn on. If a friend of mine got an XB for their first bike I would drag their asses to to a riders course and make sure they didn't just go out and experiment. Barring that, some serious time in an empty parking lot getting them solid on the basics and then some short rides for the first few weeks -- and then still getting them into a riders safety course. You can get however pissy you want and make your snide remarks but since this is the type of choice that can contribute to your death or dismemberment it is worth beating to death. Same as dealing with firearms -- it is important to be smart or you can have something blown off. Being able to survive being a dumbarse is not a reason to be a dumbarse, unless you're a squid. Also meant to be take personally, Ret | ||
| Buelltroll |
hmm my first bike was a 1987 cr80 when i was 12 yrs old my next bike was a 2003 buell xbR when i was 30 whaddya know I didnt die eat a d*** | ||
| Retrittion |
"I didn't die" Umm, yeah...thanks for making my point for me. Sometimes I wonder if this is a debate that will ever get settled, thought that would require rational thought...and accepting that I'm right, of course (Thats sarcasm Mr. Troll, just so we are clear).  | ||
| Brazenbuck |
Vanvideo, I can see and appreciate your point. Maybe I'm just approaching this differently than most new riders that hop on a sportbike. My motorcycling right now (and before the purchase) is spent reading and learning. Right now I'm reading "Motorcycling Excellence" and "Proficient Motorcycling". Can you learn to ride from a book? Of course not, but knowledge is king and this keeps me engaged until I can take my Rider's Edge course in July. Rider's Edge is new in California and I signed up for the first available class in July. For what it's worth, I got my bike, a 12Ss three weeks ago and I've put 10 miles on it. I want to jump on it every day but that isn't smart with my current skill level, so I don't. On the weekends I get up before traffic gets heavy and take it to a park where I can practice starting/stopping/turning and applying what I've studied. Are there people who go buy these things with no experience, keep it upright and through the gears a few times, then declare themselves riders? For those that go about it that way, I can only hope the best for them. Everyone lives with the consequences of their actions so who am I to judge? | ||
| Bigredwood |
Yes . . . I'm the long-winded ass from above. But I will chime in for the last time on this topic here: I have always had an admiration for all that share my passion for motorcycles. This why I drop the clutch hand to all fellow riders on our highways and streets. I don't find privilege in owning one bike or another. My favorite comment about bikes I wouldn't own is, "Each bike has a specific purpose . . . and this bike doesn't fit my purpose." So in my experience . . . they make Buells for a specific purpose. Buell itself relies on the fact that the Blast was made 'specifically' to be a starter bike. They NEVER teach riders at Harley-Davidson Training Classes on XB9s, XB12s, or any other bike. The HD sponsored classes use the Blast for a reason. My local Safety Council even uses DRZ125Ls as their training bikes. Remember the whole thread is on what is a "good starter bike." The DOT's statistics for accidents involving motorcycles show that a true starter bike is very relevant. Nearly 70% are riders within a year of getting their licenses involved in single vehicle accidents. Why were your insurance rates so high for the first few years? Why are sportbikes so much more to insure? In Closing . . . To all that share in this forum remember that folks use this as a reference tool. I find this as irresponsible as telling riders that they don't need to wear helmets. "Assuming one is serious about learning how to ride, and dedicates themselves to continuous education, practice and improvement, what essential motorcycling skills can one simply not learn on an XB? Living through a broken clutch cable at 60mph. July 2003 outside Rinconadas, Mexico (three broken ribs, collarbone and trucked back to US for medical treatment.) | ||
| Fresnobuell |
Isn't it interesting how the only people saying its a good first bike, got one as their first bike? WHo better to ask? Don't get defensive, just because someone says that a beginner can learn on the XB doesn't mean that you are less of a rider for riding the XB. I think some of that is going on here. Don't forget that having power can get you out of bad situations just as easy as get you in bad situations. As far as guy who asked the question in the first place, my feeling is if you are bright enough to ask the question (as opposed to going out and just buying a 600cc "beginner" bike), you will be fine in your decision-making on the bike. | ||
| Brazenbuck |
Living through a broken clutch cable at 60mph. July 2003 outside Rinconadas, Mexico (three broken ribs, collarbone and trucked back to US for medical treatment.) Bigredwood. What skills would one get from riding a smaller bike that would prepare them for dealing with a worn or defective part? I'm not interested in arguing, I just want to understand where you're coming from. | ||
| Zoedogg1 |
Im so happy to see that the second half of this thread is on the same page as myself. If you ever have something to worry about it should be the guys that say "Screw it! Jump on it and twist the throttle, Im not dead yet". And how the hell can a subject like this be dead "Kill the thread". This is a thread that should always be in place and active on every bike forum. Not one day passes that I dont hear about a newbie or for that matter any guy on a bike that was hit or hit something in my town. With odds like that why the hell would anyone in their right mind say,"Buy a 1203cc motorcycle to start on". Yeah many have done it, but it dosent mean it was the smartest thing to do either. If you have done this and get along fine then great, but dont think for a second that everybody shares that same idea. Some people like living enough to start at the beginning and learn from there. Kutos to Brazenbuck..seriously. You bought the bike,ok. But your taking the time to get to know it. Most important. Brazenbuck... experience may have everything to do with that situation. Its happened to me "two times". Both times on a Kawi I owned and was on the highway both times. Yes it scared the shit out of me, but I managed to stay upright both times and stop. I rode the rear brake until it began to bog down in each gear and down shifted without the clutch at each time. And it was "experience" that made it 50 times easier the second time around. Oh and the smaller bike should give... 1) Less torque 2) less speed 3) easier handling in some cases But aside from that, when something is going to go wrong and your screwed...your just screwed. We all know that I think..hense, "Shit Happens". (Message edited by zoedogg1 on June 12, 2008) | ||
| Bigredwood |
Brazenbuck - I applaud your foresight and convictions about educating yourself for riding. You are an irregular new rider. Most push the envelope early and pay with limbs or life. I poorly expressed my answer by using personal experience without explaination. (working and debating . . . bad mix) -Cable failure happen at a bad time during a SCORE race. And in my youth I would have been found without a pulse. long story for a different thread. I have just seen too many bad accidents. Even have asked myself if it was worth it when losing close friends. Riding is dangerous and a good foundation in fundementals and patience pays in huge dividends. For Anyone asking about a STARTER BIKE: -A starter bike is one that limits the amount of risk placed on the responsibilty of an inexperienced rider. By limiting the output of a bike, it will make those split-second decisions less of a reflex and more of a decided response. Use this and make a mature decision. (Message edited by bigredwood on June 12, 2008) | ||
| Mr2shim |
Some of the reasons here for buying a smaller bike opposed to an XB as a starter bike. Quite frankly. They are very retarded. A broken clutch cable at 60mph? WTF? Maybe I don't have a good imagination now but I'm not sure how that can cause you to crash alone. I've had my clutch cable snap and it was nothing close to life endangerment. Someone pulled out in front of you when you were going 50 in a neighborhood and you grabbed a ton of XB brake. Ok.... Doing the same thing on a blast or some bike with a weaker engine would guarantee you wouldn't land on your face? You hit a rock going 90mph and got some evil tank slapper... uhhh. what road in the US of A can you go 90 and not get a huge ticket? I'd like to ride that road. You grabbed a ton of front brake when you got the slapper? Well I hate to say but it's human nature to tense up and hold tight. Doesn't matter what bike you were riding, nothing can prepare you for that except just that. Again, plenty of good advice given on why a XB shouldn't be a beginner bike. If I could start over and have the $$$ to buy a crap blast or something weacksauce I would. But I didn't. It's just the reasoning in some of these reasons is again, really retarded. (Message edited by mr2shim on June 12, 2008) | ||
| Bigredwood |
Mr2Shim - age becomes evidence in your response. But in being the retarded old man . . . Lets ride. I find riding with others may add to my knowledge of the unknown or misunderstood. Maybe you have experience that I may learn from. I have a trip to the Dragon planned for the start of September (5th/6th). If want to ride with some seasoned twisters. Cable snap on the highway . . . sucks! Cable snap in the middle of the Baja . . . sucks just a little more. | ||
| Retrittion |
I knew there were some other voices of reason and experience on this board. You want a functional, real world example of why stupid newbies are not ready to ride right out the gate? Fine -- A buddy of mine works at a local motorcycle shop and has for a long time and EVERY year summer roles around he watches lots of young guys come in, buy their first bike (usually of the generic metric 600cc to 1000cc variety) and EVERY week three or four of these riders tip over or dump leaving the gawd damn parking lot! Having witnessed more than a couple of these mishaps I can only cringe about what they will do when they get out on a main drag or worse yet the highway. For the most part these are nice people, mostly young kids (18-24ish) who have not taken any courses. Even more disturbing is the number of these riders who wreck their bikes in the first 3 months of ownership -- about 15-25% (and that is wreck with a capital WRECK). Handling a vehicle you are not trained on in traffic is much akin to handling a loaded firearm you are unfamiliar with -- you most likely will not get killed, but it darn well increases you odds. There simply isn't any arguing this -- the statistics prove over and over that riders with training are better and safer and are less likely to die or be massively injured. If you consider yourself the exception to this rule, fine, but you can only claim to be an exception -- not a model example to follow. Anything else is irresponsible and thickheaded. Oh, cable snap on the highway -- this is dangerous because you only find out your are the possessor of this fine problem when you are in the middle of decelerating, passing, and/or turning -- and this is a problem because not only do you then have to deal with continuing the maneuver you also have to contend with a unstable motorcycle (unstable because it is either at the high or low end of the RPM range due to the expected shift) and a vehicle that is now locked into a certain gear. Though many of us know in theory how to up shift without engaging the clutch and some even know how to down shift as well I would wager very few of us do it regularly enough for it to be a reflex response. Since it isn't a reflex, you have to think before you act and many time is is while you are thinking that the bad stuff happens. Once again, it isn't that you can't survive this, it is that something like this increases your odd of death or serious injury. We ride a vehicle that requires forethought for it basic operation and that fact favors the experienced, trained rider over the novice do-it-your-selfer. I know some of you have gone another way and survived and maybe even become very accomplished riders -- that doesn't make it the right way and it definitely doesn't make it the way we as a group should recommend new riders to come into this passion of ours. Personally I like to look after family and I consider Buellers an extended family, even if some of you are the sorts of kids who track mud into the house. (Message edited by retrittion on June 12, 2008) | ||
| Bigredwood |
I think you put it best Retrittion. Checked out Ferris . . . hell of a bike. Now how do I get to this Round-a-bout? Have a Great Season. | ||
| Lions |
I would suggest a "Big Wheel" to start with.... after a month or so, go get yourself a nice Hyabusa!!  | ||
| Werewulf |
starting on july first, you wont have to worry about a starter bike in florida...floridas new law will require you to take a safety course to get your license... you can ride the starter bike at the school...that should solve the problem.. | ||
| Brazenbuck |
Zoedogg1/Bigredwood - Thanks for the encouragement. I'm probably the oldest 34 year old in the world  Nothing to prove, no one to impress and too many reasons to come home every day to not use common sense while out on the road. There simply isn't any arguing this -- the statistics prove over and over that riders with training are better and safer and are less likely to die or be massively injured. If you consider yourself the exception to this rule, fine, but you can only claim to be an exception -- not a model example to follow. Anything else is irresponsible and thickheaded. Retrittion - See, this is the part I didn't get and can understand people being concerned for newbies if it's really the case. I really just assumed that people who didn't know how to ride used the readily-available training out there as opposed to going it alone. | ||
| Zoedogg1 |
That would be awesome if that were the case. I think the Florida safety course is a great place to begin, and long as it isnt to expensive or hard to get into (waiting line 6 months long) Here in Washington we have many motorcycle training courses that are much more difficult than the actual DMV riding test or written. If this course is taken and completed successfully then you dont have to take the riding portion at the DMV. The class does cost from 150 to 250 dollars but well worth every cent....thats what I hear anyhow. I have been fortunate enough to be able to ride bikes for most of my life(age 5). I have had countless mishaps off road and what I feel to be tons of experience on the dirt. BUT, all that experience taught me about street bikes was how to shift. The feel of the road and how bike reacts and preforms are a whole new world. My first ride ever consisted of my brothers buddy handing his CBR to me in '88 and me haulin ass down the road. Little did I know that turning on this machine was much different than any dirt bike I owned, I WAS OUT OF CONTROL!! I managed to brake enough to save it, but at that exact moment "age 14" I had a new respect for street bikes. It scared me into wearing a man-pon, because I know I crapped myself a little during that. In short, if I can save someone with my experience, from having to learn like I did. Then my work is done. Just use common sense, if it seems to be to much at first thought, it probably is. | ||
| Jrockne |
Well I wanted it to die, but it didn't... the fact of the matter is with these bikes opposed to something like an old yamaha XS650 or a ninja 250 you will be going faster (more power) and you will be stopping harder (better brakes). Those are a couple of the things that increase risk. Increase risk=better chance of pain/money spent. Is it really that much of an ego check to buy something cheap with more than enough power to ride into the ground for a season or so and THEN buy the bike you want? Why push it? Almost everyone has a low-speed drop when they start (usually in the parking lot), why not it be on the cheap bike you don't care for as much instead of the brand new, $10,000 bike you have been lusting at for years. --- It does NOT come down to the rider being mature and not trying to get into a wreck, no one tries to. It comes down to the rider being able to handle whatever machine he is sitting on. And whether you want to believe it or not, I don't want ANY new rider on an XB/600/1000/1125, etc. IT IS TOO MUCH BIKE FOR THEIR EXPERIENCE. I am 21 years old, sure I sound like an old man, but I just know if I would have started out with an XB I would have gotten myself in a lot of situations that my skill level was not ready for. You CANNOT learn to ride by reading a book, you have to log miles, and thats best done with a cheap bike that you will sell or keep and get the bike you WANT once you feel you know what you are doing, chances are, you still won't be ready for the next bike and a period of 'learning' will take place again. | ||
| Werewulf |
the safety school thing is good, but expensive.. it will also require special endorsements, like side-car etc.. | ||
| Evlxb |
Hello all - long time lurker first time poster.... I felt so compelled to post on this subject that i went ahead and registered. Is the XB9 a good beginner bike - probably not but I'd like to share my experience. I am a new rider with no experience at all riding on the road or in the dirt. I've always wanted a bike but never felt that I was ready for one (too young/too dumb). I waited 'till I was/am 34 and took the MSF course at the local college and went ahead and got my endorsement. I then looked at a lot of bikes on the market - crotch rocket thru cruisers - and decided a standard (naked) bike would fit me best. I looked at SV's, 599's, Blasts and the XB's. I have short legs and all but the XBSL and Blast felt a little tall to me. I was most comfortable the Buell’s. I looked at Blasts but I just didn't like them (call me vein I guess) and they don't hold their value. I found a low mileage 2003 XB9SL a couple of hours away and went ahead and bought it. I started riding around my neighborhood, then ventured out to the closest empty parking lot, then started riding local back roads on afternoons when I knew traffic would be low and then started venturing out a little more each time. I did a few miles on the highway before I road to work for the first time yesterday. I never felt over my head and was very comfortable on the bike the whole time. I like the XB for it's seating position and linear power. I missed a few up/down shifts a few times and the bike never surprised me. Would I recommend an XB to every new rider - no. Can you get on an XB and learn to ride safely - yes - but you have to do it right. Not just throw a leg over and twist away. Anyway - long post with my 12 cents | ||
| Werewulf |
a quick throttle may get an expert out of trouble, but it will only get a newbie belly up.... | ||
| Darthane |
I looked at Blasts but I just didn't like them (call me vein I guess) and they don't hold their value. ~~~>Evlxb ...are you sure you're talking about the right motorcycle? Everything I've seen and read suggests the opposite - the XBs don't hold their value, the Blasts hold up surprisingly well. I'm not saying you made a bad choice (I have both a Blast and an XB9R), just wondering what you based that off of. | ||
| Evlxb |
Darthane - reflecting on it more - you are right about resale. I based it on what i could buy a blast for (new) and what they were selling for used. P}robably better deal than buying a new XB and selling it later. I ended up getting my '03 for $4500 and used blasts around here are $3000. So for the $1500 more I got a bike that I would never out-grow and could mod 'till my heart is content (or pockets are empty). Werewulf - you are very correct. I have yet to have the bike over 80mph (and that was on the expressway) and have been very mindfull of how fast and how much the throttle gets rotated. The key to learning on the XB (for me anyway) is being conservative. No whellies no stoppies - maybe I'm the oldest 34 year old I know - but so far so good. | ||
| Hammeroid |
get a busa and forget your worries. | ||
| B00stzx3 |
I've been following this thread guys. I'm new to the board. As soon as I found the Firebolt, I INSTANTLY fell in love with it. It is badass looking, a sportbike, plenty of torque, and its AMERICAN! Its a good comparison to My focus for the same reasons. but anyways, I will get a Firebolt for my first bike. Is it a smart idea to get? No, no its not. But I've made a lot of dumb choices and I'm still here, albeit scarred up. I've ridden mopeds and big dirtbike most my life, and some real bikes (less than legally). But speaking as a total newb (I take the BRC course in 6 days), its defintley not a good starter bike. You could easily go out of your limits and hurt yourself. I've cheated death many a time and am not worried about it. Am i dumb? Hell yes. Is a firebolt a good 1st bike? hell no. But were American, and we do what we want. I'm close to Johns Hopkins anyways I'll be in good hands. | ||
| Evlxb |
um.... ok.... good luck with that. | ||
| Ustorque |
I will get a Firebolt for my first bike. Is it a smart idea to get? No, no its not. But I've made a lot of dumb choices and I'm still here, albeit scarred up. I've ridden mopeds and big dirtbike most my life, and some real bikes (less than legally). But speaking as a total newb (I take the BRC course in 6 days), its defintley not a good starter bike. You could easily go out of your limits and hurt yourself. I've cheated death many a time and am not worried about it. Am i dumb? Hell yes. Is a firebolt a good 1st bike? hell no. But were American, and we do what we want. I'm close to Johns Hopkins anyways I'll be in good hands.} this has got to be in my top 5"stupid shit said" list!  i've avoided this until the above post post. i think it's really a matter of each persons own feelings when they begin to ride to choose a bike they are comfortable on that allows them the control they need to operate it correctly. for myself i don't feel the xb9 or 12 is a good beginners bike. my reason for that is the bike geometry itself more than the motor. in my opinion the shorter wheel base of the xb makes it react quite differently during acceleration and under braking that may take a new rider by surprise and in an emergency situation become deadly. after 26 years of riding i firmly believe the best bike to begin with is a dual sport of the 400cc range. just my opinion. ride safe guys (Message edited by ustorque on June 13, 2008) (Message edited by ustorque on June 13, 2008) | ||
| Robomoto |
First post! After years on dirtbikes as a kid (including racing MX) and commuting to college I was off the street for about 10 years. Got "the fever" every spring but always held off. Until I saw the first Firebolt (9R). Loved the look and the uniqueness but figured I should take my time with re-entry. I took the beginner and advanced MSF courses and then got the XB. I'm really glad I took those courses. Got me back to thinking like a motorcylist and confident with handling a bike on the road where the terrain isn't the main concern! For me the XB was not the best to start on, mostly due to quirky setup while a Japanese bike of similar power (i.e. feeble - LOL) could be expected to "fit" out of the crate. After a few hundred km of feeling things weren't "clicking" I started adjusting suspension settings and the bike improved dramatically. I wonder if your average noob is as prepared to do setup. If I hadn't I wouldn't have enjoyed the 'bolt as much...the first month wasn't a great experience and could have soured a new rider. I recently traded the 'bolt for an Uly, so I've got the Buell bug. Again it's something different and attracts lots of looks. First impression: Woohoo. Second impression: Touratech pegs on the way. Stockers + wet = bad. | ||
| 03worc9r |
I am a little late finding this thread but I have to add that my first and current bike is an xb9r. I have only been riding a year and have had no course or prior motorcycle riding. It doesn't seem like to much for a first bike to me but like any bike requires a lot of discipline . I am also not 18. | ||
| Fresnobuell |
a quick throttle may get an expert out of trouble, but it will only get a newbie belly up.... And please don't tell you believe that riding slow on a bike is the safest course...I would much rather be overtaking cars (as a reasonable rate of course) than having cars run up my ass or pull into my blind spots. I really don't even like moving at the same rate as the cagers. Slower does not mean safer. |
