| Author | Message | ||
     Cold_iron |
broke this a little under flush, is a dremel a good idea or try and get a nut welded on? things were going well after i rotated the engine the for first time....of course i had to do something dumb | ||
| Gentleman_jon |
Not exactly sure what you mean, any chance of posting a pic of the wounded part? | ||
| Cold_iron |
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| Cold_iron |
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| Cold_iron |
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| Cold_iron |
this is on a 2003 xb where the lateral motor mount and clutch cable attach to. A local welding shop charges a minimum of $35 though they havent seen it. (Message edited by cold_iron on June 05, 2008) | ||
| Hexangler |
Try this first: You can try a carbide tipped Dremel tool to cut a slot in the exposed bolt face. Take your time and use a water mister to lubricate the cut and clear the fine chips. At this point you should be able to get a flat head screwdriver to back the bolt out. Remember, with out the head on the bolt, there is minimal torque on the threads so it should back out easily. (there may be locktite) Check that the first thread of the bolt is not bent into the threaded hole in the case, you may have to clear that too with the Dremel. I have also used a pointed drift and hammer to back broken studs out. The coefficient of thermal expansion for aluminum is twice that of steel. You can use a hardware propane torch to warm the aluminum, which will also loosen friction on the broken steel stud. The heat will also loosen the locktite's hold. ps. I prefer dental handpieces--100K RPM. | ||
| Point_doc |
Screw/Bolt extractor. Here is an example: http://www.use-enco.com/CGI/INSRIT?PARTPG=INSRAR2&PMAKA=325-6374&PMPXNO=5832147 (Message edited by point_doc on June 05, 2008) | ||
| Reepicheep |
A screw or bolt extractor will likely (IMHO) snap off in there, just making a bad problem worse. A tungsten carbide dremel bit will go through that bolt like butter. Bullet shaped worked best for me. But you still have to figure out how to get all of the bolt out... | ||
| Point_doc |
Reepicheep, Understand your concern and yes if you don't have the feel for this it might snap. But as you have stated in your post "you still have to figure out how to get all of the bolt out", this is it. I like the ones I have posted, they are a better design then previously one's I have used and snapped. In using these I have really gone further than expected without snapping. If you take the bike to someone to extract there going to use a screw/bolt extractor. Reepicheep states, "But you still have to figure out how to get all of the bolt out..." if you do remove too much of the remaining bolt that is accessible, the other alternative is to completely drill it out and install a heli-coil. Hexangle states, "Remember, with out the head on the bolt, there is minimal torque on the threads so it should back out easily. (there may be locktite)" With this said, the broken bolt with the proper tool (screw/bolt extractor) should back out. Good luck, (Message edited by point_doc on June 05, 2008) | ||
| Gentleman_jon |
All good advice. Most likely this bolt has locktite on it, so heat is an excellent recommendation. A penetrating oil like Liquid Wrench or PB Blaster also helps loosen threads. Give them a while to soak in. The mistake that most people, my self included, make with bolt extractors is that we have used a bit that is too small, thus breaking off in the bolt, making a bad situation worse. You want to use the biggest bolt extractor that you can. So ....... Start out with a small carbide Dremel or drill, and keep enlarging the hole until you are near the threads, but not in them. Using a reverse drill, that is to say one that turns in the opposite direction of a standard drill, will often remove the remains of the bolt without even using the "Easy Out", because it is rotating in the "removal" direction. This operation is one that every home mechanic should be competent in. Most are not. This is especially true of a Buell owner, because many of the steel bolts are threaded directly into aluminum which corrodes in the presence of steel and water, and makes it very easy to break the bolts when attempting to remove them. If a bolt does not come out easily, it is a good idea to apply a penetrating oil, and heat, before breaking the fastener. Of course that is easier said than done. Watching a guy who knows what he is doing a couple of times can make all the difference. Good Luck. Helps to have a bit of that too.  | ||
| Point_doc |
Gentleman_jon, Great advice on the size of the extractor!! | ||
| Hexangler |
If you do go the ez-out option, and you do break it in the hole, don't panic (I've done this too.) Ez-outs are extremely brittle. I have shattered the broken remains with a pointed drift and hammer, and pulled them out with a needle-nose plier. Diamond bits will cut anything including Ez-outs. They just gum up when used with metal. So again, the dental hand piece(or Dremel), diamond tool, and water mister will slowly get the broken ez-out job done. | ||
| Azxb9r |
The procedure described by Gentleman Jon is the way to go. Just make sure to be very patient through this, if you start to get frustrated, go take a walk and come back to it later. | ||
| Point_doc |
It is always better when working with metals that you remove only as much as needed because in this case you can't put it back. That if you remove the metal of the bolt down to where you see threads, that you may have removed to much material for any method other than to completely drill the bolt out then heli-coil it. If you make the walls of the bolt to thin they will collapse with very little pressure from any method. This again is where the extractor works the best, it will permit the removal of material and keep the integrity of the bolt. (Message edited by point_doc on June 05, 2008) | ||
| Reepicheep |
I had the best luck removing taps / easy outs with a bullet shaped tungsten carbide dremel bit. The dremel cutting stones worked well also, but get the good ones, not the "chain saw sharpener" ones. Or just follow the good advice above and just don't break it in the first place  | ||
| Teddagreek |
+1 on the PB Blaster.... If you heat slightly it will also draw in more penetrating fluid.. | ||
| Cold_iron |
i was making some progress but broke a drill bit in there, not sure how to get it out, sort of mangled the top trying to dremel cut a slot for a flat head. | ||
| Point_doc |
What size is the bolt and what size is the bit you broke? What where you trying to accomplish with the flathead? I am trying to get a clear picture of your situation. If you can send a detailed pic. (Message edited by point_doc on June 06, 2008) | ||
| Cold_iron |
at first i was drilling for the bolt extractor, but once the bit broke, i went the route for the flat head | ||
| Cold_iron |
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| Cold_iron |
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| Cycleaddict |
how about welding a nut to the broken stud (?) , works very well ... you got your heat , you got a good surface to turn the broken stud out , and (again) you got your heat !!!! try it you'll like the results ! | ||
| Cold_iron |
i have a custom welding shop that i may have to take it to, I dont have any welding experience, but would give it a shot | ||
| Reepicheep |
Thats going to be really hard to weld onto, as it is sunk into the head. The tungsten carbide bullet shaped dremel bit will go through the drill bit quickly but under control. Try and protect the threads, but if you have to heli-coil it when you are done, or tap it one size bigger and use a high grade bolt, so be it. | ||
| Point_doc |
Cold_iron, This project is about extracting; extracting the bolt and extracting the broken bit. Let’s get the tools to get this out. You will need safety glasses, pick and/or scribe, compressed air and/or shop-vac and penetrating oil and especially patients. Most likely there is chips in the hole that was created by the drill-bit. These chips need to be removed to allow the extraction of the broken bit. You will need to sit down by the bike, put your safety glasses on and put some oil in the hole. Get your pick and try to dislodge the bit by picking at the end and work it back/forth. Also clear any chips or burrs from the opening of the hole. If you have compressed air, partially cover the hole with one hand to prevent chips from hitting you. Now you pulse compressed air into the hole or use the shop-vac to try to vacuum out any chips. Just keep working between the oil, picking and air to try to extract the broken bit. A word of caution: a dermel tool has its place and that is to do one thing, remove material. Reaching for a dermel tool should be used as the last option available. Again, you cannot replace the material that has been removed. I’ll keep watching the thread to assist you. A personal note: when I was a Tool and Die Maker Apprentice, my Journeyman would not allow me to grind one out; he made me use this method as described to get bits out. Grinding on multi- thousand dollar tooling jobs was asking for added labor on the project. You would have to fill the hole with weld and repair. (Message edited by point_doc on June 06, 2008) | ||
| Cycleaddict |
the beauty of welding (MIG) onto a broken stud ,is that you can fill the recessed hole with weld to attach a nut to the broken stud ! you will not believe how well this works until you have tried it. signed --NO E-Z OUTS . | ||
| Flatliner_dnr |
Welding is really the easiest way to go, safest, most effective. That's how I got a broken tap out of my bike, don't use easy outs, you'll have a worse problem. | ||
| Point_doc |
Drill bits and taps are made of tooling steel, you don't use easy-outs on bits or taps. They are designed for softer material like screws and bolts. If welding could be performed, then it would be a better choice then removing materials by grinding. But, if welding is not available or can be performed then the next alternative is to extract by using an extractor. Extractors have their place and with proper use can be very successful. Like any tool, they have their appropriate time of usage. I personally am confident with the tool and would not hesitate to use them when the application calls for it. | ||
| Cold_iron |
so even if the bolt is slight below flush a smaller nut can be attached? |
