| Author | Message | ||
     Xcler8n |
I have a '04 XB12S with a race ecm and buell race exhaust. I'm looking to switch out my exhaust to something new. A mechanic at the local harley dealer has a Force exhaust on his twelve and it sounds utterly amazing. But after calling and talking to the guys at useforce.com I'm having second thoughts. They do not recommend this exhaust for the twelve because it is too small/restrictive. So I guess the opinion I'm looking for is should I get the force anyways? The other exhausts I am considering are the Micron Serpent and the TiForce system. Though the TiForce is probably out of my price range. Any opinion and information you guys can provide would be much appreciated. | ||
| Barker |
micron = best power Tiforce = empty wallet and bling Force = loud bike that fouls plugs | ||
| Freezerburn |
I love my Micron. It is just edged out in power on the top end by the Race can, but it is far superior in the mid range. Lots of folks seem pretty happy with the Drummer SS but it is not a full system (which I guess you are considering). If at about 5 grand on the tach in second I snap the throttle WFO I get a nice power wheelie. | ||
| Jaimec |
Other than the e-certified systems sold in Europe, I've seen nothing to tempt me to change my stock muffler (and unfortunately I've seen no performance data at Trojan's site regarding those mufflers as Al has on his site for the exhaust systems he sells). The other problem is the prohibitive price of ordering ANYTHING from Europe just now... | ||
| Buellsrule |
Drummer all the way! www.kdfab.com | ||
| Vicfirebolt |
I love the sound and power delivery of my D&D. | ||
| Nillaice |
i scare all the neighborhood kids with my D&D. the D&D is nice, but the volume is beginning to become annoying. i kinda wish i had went with something a touch quieter. a few guys i know have drummers. it still has good sound/noise, but is not as abrasively loud. | ||
| 147db |
Louder the bike, smaller the dick!  | ||
| Vicfirebolt |
So long as people hear me. I want too be heard it's safer. I pretty much don't like my neighbors so It serves it's purpose there too. I live in this gated lamer community with uppity old people all around me. | ||
| Buellinachinashop |
Your Buell race can did pretty good in the American tests. Its loud without being ridiculous. What's wrong with it? | ||
| Gentleman_jon |
Two Words: Drum - mer. This is the one that works best on the street. And sounds so sweet. | ||
| Paint_shaker |
Drummer or Spec Ops. These pipes are nearly identical performance wise and will bolt right on. | ||
| Joedpr |
Special OPS, hands down the best for the money | ||
| Point_doc |
Special Ops is a pseudo-Drummer!! | ||
| Retrittion |
SpecOps Ok, enough fanboy gibbering -- seriously American Sport Bike did a shootout on most of the exhausts available, check it out and see the numbers (including loudness) yourself. From my reading the "best" pipes for my XB12R engine are the SpecOps or a Drummer. I like (and am putting on) a SpecOps because I like that it keeps the interactive valve on the 12 and it has the best midrange by a smidge. That said, Drummer makes a nice pipe, and they offer many versions/variations. The good news is your race can is really in demand so I would sell and use part to fund the new pipe! Cheers! Oh, and Point_doc -- this discussion has been civil so there isn't any cause to be a jerk about it -- nothing gets solved by bashing the products of two geat sponsors of this fine board (even if one is just overprice bling...hey, I'm just sayin...)!    (Message edited by retrittion on May 30, 2008) (Message edited by retrittion on May 31, 2008) | ||
| Point_doc |
Retrittion, I find it difficult to take you serious. I have made no inflammatory remarks/insinuations like you have! Oh by the way, I am entitled to my opinion. My opinion is based on being a journeyman tool maker/machinist. I have completed an apprenticeship as a Tool and Die Maker in the Aerospace industry and then became a journeyman. I have my A.S. in machining technology and I am saying I wouldn’t put one of those cans on my bike, just look at the finished product!! Concerning being civil, again I have made no inflammatory remarks toward Special Ops or you. I am just observing the finished product not only as a customer but someone who takes pride in a clean finished product. Secondly, I know for a fact that Kevin Drum has spent plenty of time testing and tuning his muffler and just look at the finished product, it makes a statement of his skills and pride. The product demonstrates his skills as a craftsman! Yes it may cost a little more but you will definitely get what you pay for, a nicely finished product inside and out. And as for you Retrittion, don’t want to toss words, opinion or name calling/insinuations back and forth. It is my opinion and supported by my life’s experiences and if Special Ops can’t handle the criticism, then they need to present a cleaner finished product! (I'm just sayin...)! | ||
| Paint_shaker |
Degrees aside... My opinion is based on the American Sportbike Exhaust Shootout and the fact that I have a Spec Ops pipe on my bike. I can say I do not regret having a Spec Ops can and have ZERO issues with the fit and finish. It is readily apparent that Odie has done his homework, as a Spec Ops pipe performs at the same level or better than a Drummer and better than some other pipes tested. IMO either of these 2 pipes are the best out there. When it came down to it, I went for the Spec Ops because it retains the interactive valve and the price was right. I am in no way dissing on the Drummer, as I believe it to be a great pipe with quality workmanship. I just couldn't justify the extra 200 dead presidents on a modified used can. But that is just my opinion, your results may vary! Point Doc, have you suggested to Odie that, in your opinion, his finished product needs to be cleaner?? I am sure Odie is willing to listen to constructive critism... | ||
| Point_doc |
Hey Paint_shaker Thanks for not taking opinions personal. I stated my history to show that my opinion is based on experiences and I believe I have earned the right to this thru a lot of time and effort. I made tools for aircraft that had tolerances to 0.0005” and a craftsman/journeyman is known by his product. I found the exhaust shootout helpful as a resource of the available products along with a comparative performance report. During my search for a muffler, I have observed that it sure looks like one that has been researched and in production longer, hence pseudo-Drummer. In principle as a consumer I don’t like to buy copies, this is one of the reasons I bought a Buell vs. Japanese import. In principle I will not buy a product that looks unfinished in design and/or production, this is why I bought the Drummer muffler. (Message edited by point_doc on May 30, 2008) | ||
| Sort23 |
I can't speak about the Drummer, but I have a Special Ops and am more than satisfied with the sound, quality, and performance. Great pipe. | ||
| Semirgdj |
+1 for the Drummer! The performance is awesome. It works great, still has the jack points as well as the DOT legal writing on it. | ||
| Paint_shaker |
It's all good... I just don't agree with your opinion that a Spec Ops is a pseudo-Drummer. | ||
| Point_doc |
Paint_shaker, Do you really believe and expect the rest of us to believe that converting the OEM can over is an original thought of Spec Ops, especially since the product came years after the Drummer? Come on Paint_shaker work with me!! It's not a matter of opinion; it’s so obvious I almost want to get beside myself and be straight up with this, but I desire to be polite and courteous as everyone is being with me, almost everyone. It is said that the best compliment that an opponent can give is to imitate/copy you and/or your product. I see that this is the case with Spec Ops. I would like to check ones moral compass. What if a man who works with his hands injured himself to the point he could no longer make a living? His life, dreams and future are greatly impacted. How is this any different then if a man takes an idea that is not his and makes a profit from it? One thing I found refreshing on this web was the fact that some here still have a moral compass that works. I am hopeful that I am not the only one who can see the obvious! And as a fellow rider I/we can overlook a lot of short comings, but I find it difficult to overlook this. You don’t take another mans ideas, research and lively hold from him and call it your own and profit from another mans labor! This is straight up wrong and I can not nor will not support it. Paint_shaker I do appreciate our dialog, thank you. | ||
| Xcler8n |
Does it have to be an OEM can? Do either of them convert over the Buell Race can as that is what I currently have? | ||
| Sath |
8n, Heck, sell your race can if you don't like it. Look what there bringing on ebay. Your can buy what you want. | ||
| Paint_shaker |
Point Doc, Are wanting me to believe that ANY can based on a stock can is not orignal?? | ||
| Paint_shaker |
Xcler8n, Visit the sponsor section here and ask Odie if he can mod the race can. | ||
| Glitch |
Don't spoil a Race exhaust. Sell it to someone that's been looking high and low for one. You'll have more than enough money left over to justify any wait time. | ||
| Retrittion |
Man, engineers are always serious -- hey I was kidding around, hence the cute little icons ans such -- in my post I put lay it plain: Drummer offers many options, while SpecOps edges out the midrange by a smidge. The rest was wink, wink, nudge, nudge, know-what-I-mean fooling around trying to lighten the mood and keep this from being a fanboy discussion about who would kick who's as, Superman or Batman (Drummer or SpecOps, thats right, we have dibs on the dark knight on account of our rough edges ) Man, I would love to see if anyone would mod a race can and what numbers it might produce, but honestly in this market that would be like letting kids watercolor on a Rembrant -- those cans are going for good money, sell yours and finance the purchase of a Drummer and a SpecOps! Oh, if you need a can I have my stock one coming off when the SpecOps goes on next week and I would be happy to give you the fellow Badwebber discount on it so you have a can to send to whoever you decide to go with. PM if your interested, you get first dibs. As far as the psudo-Drummer thing, that implies that the SpecOps used the Drummer as a template which is an assumption. Seems impolite to make the accusation, just like I would never call a Rebel Racing muffler (heh, "muffler", as if!) a psudo-anything. So we need to arm wrestle on this one or can we hug this one out Point_doc?   See all the cute little dudes? That means I'm just kidding around -- just so we are all clear and nobody needs too   or  ! | ||
| Notmyrealnamedot_com |
On this note, does any one have the MAP modifications that will best enhance either the drummer or the Spec ops? I am looking at both. In other words can someone send me their revised map after installing the new pipe. Thanks, Alex | ||
| Mr_gto |
Point_Doc, you are way out of line if you a accusing Odie of copying the Drummer. By what facts do you make this statement? Do you or have you ever owned a Spec Ops pipe and have you cut both the Spec Ops and Drummer apart to compare? Until you have I would keep you uneducated opinions to your self. Especially if you are accusing people of stealing ideas. If you dont care for the Spec Ops pipe say so, but dont start bashing someones moral character. |
