| Author | Message | ||
     Floscaned |
I purchased a new 2007 12XSTT with 200 miles on April 26th. It started having problems within 25 miles after I purchased it. Below is a list of problems to date. Has anyone had these many problems with a new Buell Motorcycle? 4/26/08 • Took a new 2007 Buell 12XSTT Lightning motorcycle for a test ride. • The bike ran well and everything operated correctly during the test ride. • Decided to purchase the motorcycle. • During the pre-purchase inspection, discovered that the left passenger foot peg hanger was scraped. • Sales stated that Buell would replace it and that the dealer would install the replacement. • While riding it home after the purchase, the speedometer started operating erratically. 4/27/08 • Took the bike back to where it was purchased. • Their diagnosis indicated a failed speed sensor. • On the ride home it started raining. • The bike started backfiring continuously; the engine stumbled and ran poorly. 4/28/08 • Removed air box cover to inspect air filter. • Discovered that oil is blowing out of the left, (rear cylinder) crankcase vent hose. • The hose end is well coated with oil. • About 20 large drops of oil were on the air box base and the velocity stack was coated with oil. • Oil was on the inside of the air filter and one pleat is saturated. • The round lock nut on the interactive exhaust cable adjuster was loose. 5/02/08 • After reassembly, took bike for test ride, (dry road, and no rain). • There was no backfiring but the engine isn’t running smoothly. 5/03/08 • Rainy day. Took the bike for another test ride. • Again, continuous KA-BAM type backfiring and a poorly running engine. 5/04/08 • Removed air box cover. • Again, found a lot of oil coming from the rear cylinder crankcase breather hose. • Removed and inspected both spark plugs. • The rear cylinder 45° spark plug boot has a ¾” slit in it. • Removed the rear spark plug wire assembly from the rear cylinder. • Brought the plug wire assembly to the Buell dealer and exchanged it for a good spark plug wire assembly. • Removed and checked both plugs. Both looked fine but replaced the rear plug with a new one. Installed the new, good, rear spark plug wire assembly on the bike. • Cleaned and reassembled air box. • After reassembly, took the bike for another test ride, (dry road, and no rain). • There was no backfiring but again the engine isn’t running as smoothly as it did on the test ride. 5/10/08 • Brought the bike back to the Buell dealer before 9 AM to have the speed sensor replaced. • On 4/27 a service representative stated it would take about 1 hour to replace the sensor. • Discussed the sensor issue and my feeling that the engine hasn't run quite right since all the backfiring. • After a couple of hours, service told me the problem wasn't a defective speed sensor. • A couple hours later they told me that installing a known good speedometer did not solve the problem. • Next, they either "repaired or replaced" the speedometer wiring harness, (I don't know which). • They reported that the new / repaired harness fixed the speedometer issue, but another problem occurred. • While fixing the speedometer, a component in the neutral indicator light circuit failed. • The Buell dealer will have to order repair parts from Buell. • Service Manager assured me that after clearing the engine codes, the engine is now operating correctly. • Sometime after 4, more than 7 hours after I arrived, I took the bike for a 6 mile test spin. • Below 40 MPH, I feel the engine is running much rougher than it did during my initial test ride. • Informed the General Manager of my concerns. • Took the bike and headed home, (about 15-20 miles). • About half way home the speedometer started operating intermittently. • Called the Buell dealer and told GM that I feel the the bike is a lemon and just want my money back. 5/11/08 • Decided to take the bike for one more test ride. • During pre-ride inspection observed that Kevlar threads are present along 1 foot section of drive belt edge. • Concerned that drive belt may be coming apart. • Mileage out 387. • It was not raining, but had been raining earlier and was still a little damp. • The bike ran terrible for the first 2 or 3 miles. • Lots of popping, banging, stumbling and after-fires. • There were no loud KA-BAM type backfires that had occurred when it was raining. • After that it smoothed out somewhat but was still running rough. • After less than two miles, the speedometer started operating intermittently. • Brought the bike home, mileage in 394. | ||
| Jaimec |
Ummmmm... maybe I'm missing something here but... "During the pre-purchase inspection, discovered that the left passenger foot peg hanger was scraped." The TT doesn't HAVE passenger foot pegs... just those funky plastic flaps where the foot pegs would normally go?? | ||
| Floscaned |
Your right, but because the bike had sat at the dealer for a year or more with white plastic side covers and plastic. Buell authorized a black plastic swap out with foot pegs instead of side covers to help sell it. | ||
| Smokescreen |
Your right, but because the bike had sat at the dealer for a year or more with white plastic side covers and plastic. Buell authorized a black plastic swap out with foot pegs instead of side covers to help sell it. That IS correct. Your dealer got reimbursed for the kit when you purchased the bike. I'm willing to bet that they failed to mention you are entitled to the original plastics as well. If they did, I would give them a call and get my new skins. If you need info on where that can be found, I can assist your dealer with where they can find it on H-Dnet. Smokescreen | ||
| Floscaned |
Thanks Smokescreen. You’re absolutely right. This sounds exactly like something the dealer’s GM where I bought the bike would do | ||
| Swordsman |
In my experience, the oil in the air filter is not uncommon, so I wouldn't sweat that. A crank case vent hose reroute will take care of that. Also, the sputtering in rain is something I've noticed about mine as well. It does NOT like moisture in the atmosphere... runs like hammered poo when it's raining. I'd be miffed though. Brand new and already a problem child? No thanks. I'd want a refund. Good luck! ~SM | ||
| Rocksham |
Check your oil level. At the 1000 mile service the mechanic put 3 qts of oil in thinking it was the same as a sportster engine. I had oil in the air box. -- Lesson learned -- I do my own service now. | ||
| Birdy |
Sounds like you need to find another shop to help. I have a 07 STT and it broke down twice on the way home from the dealer the day I bought it. Turns out some wiring was routed under the battery and was shorting out. Other than than it's been a trouble free beast. As far as riding in the rain goes, I hate to but I rode 75 miles up to get the 1000 mile service done in a driving rain without a hitch, other than I almost froze to death! Some how I have a hard time thinking that it's normal to spit and snort in the rain. I'll be will to bet something is shorting out somewhere on your bike. And it does sound like to much oil to me from all I've read. | ||
| Lost_in_ohio |
So you bought a SS instead of a TT. with the wings removed that is. Geez you haven't even got enough miles on it to know anything about it. I remember how bad my bike ran during break in. My dealer did a bad tps set just before I picked it up. Yes my bike spit and choked and coughed. I worried about it too. Get some miles on it. Run it and let it learn the fuel values. I have a few threads showing out of my belt too. I am not too worried about it Sounds like buyers remorse. Just take the bike back and get your money back. That would beat another guy on here whining how terrible his bike is. Just my .02 | ||
| Rainman |
Check the thread in the Uly section. There's something about taking off the airbox and resetting the plug wires with lithium grease and making sure the wires aren't touching something that makes them go goofy when it rains. Apparently it's a common problem and an easy fix. Don't have it on the Blast, though | ||
| Rainman |
Me again: Check "Wet Weather Riding and Dying" in the Uly board. They talk about the exact same problem and how they solved it. | ||
| Spacecapsule1 |
I have an 08 TT. I rode it home the night I bought it 3 hours in the pouring rain. I could only do 45-50 because it was raining pretty hard.... no backfiring thank goodness. I would return it. I know you're excited about the new bike but..... I also discovered the next day that my bike had been dropped before I bought it. The puck was scuffed, the shift lever was slightly bent, the primary case had a gouge in it where the lever jammed into it.... no help from the dealer of course. they said it was my boot, which I actually brought it and showed how it couldn't be my boot.... I've also found the frame scratched up by the triple trees where the cables are run along side it.... looks like someone went after it with a screw driver... SO my point is that with the damage you've found and the problems you're already having, please consider returning it. It could get worse the more you inspect it... | ||
| Punkid8888 |
I would reset your TPS, i know its part of your 1000 mile service, but it sounds like yours needs it sooner then that. Then double check oil level is between the Hi and Low marks. any higher and you will have very heavy oil misting in the airbox. Check the wiring harnesses that routes under the negative battery terminal. I had a wire rub at 1500 miles but it only flashed the check engine light. Finish it off with a check of chassis grounds, and double check that the battery terminal are tight (you might need to place a washer under the bolt as they the bolts tend to be a little long preventing them to be tightened completely. All pretty easy stuff, hopefully it helps | ||
| Oldfz |
Full disclosure: I love my 04 XB12S. Its reliable as a stone and no dealer has touched it since I rode it out of their parking lot four years ago. But, I can't understand how any of you can urge the owner of a new motorcycle to put so much effort into troubleshooting and repair. If the bike left the factory in this shape then Buell/HD has some serious quality issues they need to address. If these problems were caused by the dealership employees abusing the bike (it had 200 miles at purchase) then that dealer has some serious integrity issues. Either way, it shouldn't be the buyer's problem. | ||
| Spacecapsule1 |
word! take that mofo back! | ||
| Cityxslicker |
Actually to take the bike back and go through any process, you would have had to let us have Harley/Buell warranty involved. Its my understanding you didnt want to leave it at the shop so the Regional rep could look at it. Having 20k miles on an XB and riding in ALL weather, I will reiterate to you, that if you are riding in the rain to CHANGE your airfilter to a K&N. Second the demo bikes only go out on test drives during nice weather/dry pavement. You infact rode it with out incident. If you remember our conversations, I recommended the 2008 XB12SS for your riding because of the upgraded TPS mod, esp since the Uly was too tall. And if you are going to haul my shop over the coals, I would have recommended that bring it to the shop and resolve your issues locally, by going through the established process with the REGIONAL Rep. You want answers about the Buells, Talk to the guys that ride them. I have always given you straight direct answers for any issue that you brought to my attention. Eugene should have included the White pieces with the bike, I will find out where they are. It may be of inconsequence in light of you stepping out of the bike. I would have answered this earlier, but it had me angered on so many levels that I would not have had anything nice or constructive to say.  | ||
| Bombardier |
Hey there City. Perhaps some of the issue on these bikes could be championed by dealer getting back to Buell. My bike has had most of them that have been listed on this forum and I believe I have found a cure for nearly all of the electrical/poor running issues. Is there any scope in the Dealer/Supplier loop for feedback? Just a thought. | ||
| Cityxslicker |
There is and there isnt, its through the regional corporate rep, which actually represents HARLEY. I would love to see a regional Buell specific rep, somebody that travels to the local areas and handles the issues that are near and dear to the riders/enthusiast level that cant get done at the dealership. There is also a direct techline back to the factory through SPOC (Single Point of Contact) but again that is Harley mothership. Maybe even something like a Buell town meeting between local riders and factory reps. I would like to see BRAG back too, but what do I know. - I am just a guy in the trenches like the rest of us, that rides em and happens to sell them | ||
| Bombardier |
No sweat City. I guess because the fixes that are produced here are not part of the factory spec that they will void the warranty on a new bike? Shame really because this is the most bike anyone could really want to own. | ||
| Cityxslicker |
Doing preventative maintenance yourself will not void the warranty (use corporate parts, document your owners manual, consult your tech spec manual yadda yadda) some of the other stuff is definitely outside of the corporate envelope. We know what the E Troy HQ thinks of the right side scoop, bike cage, open air box mod, some of the firebolt headlight mods..... and the list goes on. but for the most part work arounds are there because of the way we ride and where we ride. (do you really think E TRoy would have condoned what I do with my CITY-X? ) For cripes criminy sake, it f'n rains alot in the ol PNW; if you ride in said rain, you need the K&N. You could skip it, but your performance will illustrate to you why you NEED a K&N performance filter. | ||
| Bombardier |
I am still not getting you why the K and N is needed when it rains. I have been riding with the blue and white filter in my bike in a downpour that cars have pulled up in and it ran fine. Just not sure of the relationship between the air filter type and wet weather. | ||
| Ustorque |
the oiled properties of the k&n filter will reduce the chances of water passing thru it, because the oils will repell the water. where as a dry paper filter would not. | ||
| Bombardier |
I am thinking that the oil in the airbox has caused your issues. The AIT sensor and the O2 sensor do not like oil as it will give a wrong reading. I have found with my bike that even after the breather hoses were rerouted the thing still ran intermittently wrong and felt that there was a vibration at the back of the engine. I have replaced the head temp sensor with a standard Buell replacement part, have installed a heated O2 sensor(still narrow band) and the bike performs better than it ever has. The AIT is still giving a high inlet temp reading and after a couple of hours ride starts to affect the running of the bike. I have also used a heat shielding on the head temp sensor and the O2 sensor wires when I replaced them. I do not know how often a standard O2 sensor cycles or crosses the voltage threshold but the new heated 4 wire crosses about four times per second. Going to clean the current AIT with electroclean to see if that brings it back to spec. If not then I will get a new one and will get some heat shielding from Odie to keep the airbox temp down and some more shielding for the AIT cable. Also considering reducing the o2 initiation temp in the other maps section of ecmspy. It is set at 600 degrees but as it is controlled by the head temp sensor this is the temp the old standard O2 had to reach before sending to the ecm.With the new one it is ready/up to temp in about eight seconds so the sensor does not go off when idling like the standard one. Between Ecmspy and Megalogger there is nothing that cannot be adjusted or checked. | ||
| Floscaned |
I want to thank every body who responded to this post and for all the helpful information you supplied. Following Birdy's and Pukid8888's suggestions, I did some wire tracing/troubleshooting starting at the battery. The negative cable lug end, where the cable connects to the battery, was rubbing against one of the wiring harness bundles that go to the ECM. The lug had chaffed through poly-cloth wrap and had scraped through the insulation on the speed sensor signal wire. You couldn’t really see the chaffed spot until the negative cable was removed from the battery. When I removed the bolt from the batteries negative terminal I found a lot more corrosion than I would have expected on a new bike. In addition to green oxidation residue, the tin plating on much the cable lug was oxidized away down to the copper. At least one other wire in the harness was scraped and its insulation looks cracked. Found no other chaffed wires but did find one connector with a plastic insulator sleeve that had fallen off. On Saturday, I took the bike for a 150 mile ride. The speedometer is working, and the bike ran much better. For the first 20 or 30 miles it ran rougher than it did on my pre-purchased test ride. After 30 or so miles it intermittently started running as smooth as it did before I purchased it. It would run smooth for up to a mile and then would start running a little rough. Somewhere around 45-50 miles it started running perfectly. Over the next hundred miles, I made several stops, gas, food, etc. Each time I started the bike after turning it off, it would run a little rough for about 1 to 5 miles before running perfectly again. Any ideas on this one? Perhaps Bombardiers suggestion about oil coated sensors may be the issue here. Cityxslicker – I started this post with a bullet point outline. The outline clearly stated all of the ongoing issues and problems with the new bike that I purchased from your dealership. The initial outline didn’t identify you or the dealership, nor did it malign in any way you, the dealership, or your service department. There is one point where I state to the GM that I consider the bike a lemon, and would like my money back. How is that running your shop over the coals? On 4/27 I took the bike back to your dealership where the service department identified a defective speed sensor as the cause of the speedometer issues. On 5/10 I spent over 7 hours at your dealership waiting for the service department to fix the speedometer. As it turned out the speed sensor wasn’t the problem. I know that more than one mechanic worked on the bike and that a lot of hours went into trying to correct the problem, but nothing was resolved. In addition to not fixing the speedometer, a component in the neutral light indicator circuit, to quote your service manager, “Failed”. In the outline I went to great lengths to state only the facts about the bike’s problems. Within 1 hour of my writing a check for about $10,500, (tax & license included) the bike started having problems. • Can you get a sense of why I might be just a little upset?!! After trying to get the dealership to take the bike back, your GM offers me $8000. A $2500 loss for several week of aggravation. Then I see Smokescreen’s post stating that I’m entitled to the original white plastic. • Can you get a sense of why I’m even more torqued? Another dealer in Seattle has a 07 12XSTT with the white plastic for $600 less than your bike. I chose to purchase your bike for two reasons; I liked the passenger pegs, and in case I had any problems your dealership is only about a 20 minuet ride from home. All of the other dealerships around Puget Sound are over 1 ½ hour, or a Ferry boat ride away. To date I’ve corrected two issues. The split spark plug boot I found on my own, the chaffed wire harness with help from other Buell riders. | ||
| Cityxslicker |
You have a PM | ||
| Mikexup |
Floscaned, It must be a common problem for the selling dealer to try and keep the plastic off the TT once they put the two up kit on it. I'm sure they think the buyer will never be the wiser because the same thing has happened to me where I didn't get the original equipment. I too sent the dealer a email saying I would like to have the original equipment but I'm almost certain it will be a hassle trying to get it. Are you positive we are suppose to get the original plastic? Are we also suppose to get the original seat? Who do we contact if the dealer says this whole thing about getting the original parts back isn't factual? Any information is appreciated. | ||
| Mikexup |
Checked with the dealer today while I was getting the bike worked on, he said Harley takes the parts back when they put the 2 up kits on the TT bikes before they're sold. I wasn't going to argue with him till I know for certain I was suppose to get the parts. | ||
| Rkutzner |
I know when my dealer sells a VRod or other Harley with a paint kit (prepainted body parts) that they give the original parts to you also....but that might just be their policy. | ||
| Floscaned |
Stopped by the selling dealership and picked up my TT’s White Plastic. They did not include the original seat with the plastic. I’ve e-mailed them about the seat, but have not had a response yet. | ||
| T9r |
Just a guess here on the Rough running engine for the first part of your trip, after you corrected the worn wire issues. The computer was relearning the fuel/air mixture. Just a quick guess. Congrats on being your own mechanic. Get yourself a set of manuals and keep up the good work! |
